UK foreign ministry to raise issue of treatment of minorities with Pakistan

[Hamza913]

So are you saying that the Kalash and their way of life is NOT under threat and that the UN and UNESCO is making all this up?

That's because a lot of them are pagans, not because they are Kalashi.

 

[Wolfhunter]

That's because a lot of them are pagans, not because they are Kalashi.

That statement just made no sense whatsoever! Minorities include their culture, religion and traditions. You cannot say you are protecting faith if you are not protecting traditions and cultures.

That is where i disagree with you

Which part do you disagree with exactly?

 

[MultaniGuy]

You mean this girl:
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1124108/clash-chitral-kalash-girls-forced-conversion-islam/

First of all forced conversion is forbidden in Islam.

Secondly the article mentions thousands of Kalash who converted to Islam by their own choice.

 

[Hamza913]

That statement just made no sense whatsoever! Minorities include their culture, religion and traditions. You cannot say you are protecting faith if you are not protecting traditions and cultures.

People in Pakistan are discriminated against because of their faith, not their ethnicity. The latter is a much more rare form of discrimination in the country.

 

[Wolfhunter]

First of all forced conversion is forbidden in Islam.

Secondly the article mentions thousands of Kalash who converted to Islam by their own choice.

Based on the UN General Assembly resolutions, the Kalash culture should be declared a UNESCO World Heritage site. The global community should undertake serious efforts for the protection and conservation of Kalash culture.

http://www.ahrchk.org/ruleoflawasia.net/news.php?id=AHRC-ART-049-2016

People in Pakistan are discriminated against because of their faith, not their ethnicity. The latter is a much more rare form of discrimination in the country.

So the Baloch are discriminated against because they are Muslim or because they are Baloch? Or how about the Pathan community in Karachi?

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

just read his posts on other threads , you will understand where he is coming from
I give him more time than he deserves , my mistake

When you can't counter argument and losing debate, simply say to them " false flaggers " and move on.
Very simple.

 

[MultaniGuy]

People in Pakistan are discriminated against because of their faith, not their ethnicity. The latter is a much more rare form of discrimination in the country.

You nailed it ! If the Kalash convert to Islam that their choice. Its not like they are not Kalash anymore. They just lost their pagan faith and accepted Islam.

 

[Wolfhunter]

You nailed it ! If the Kalash convert to Islam that their choice. Its not like they are not Kalash anymore. They just lost their pagan faith and accepted Islam.

But they are not converting of their own volition:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1030779/conversions-threaten-ancient-kalash-tribe/

 

[Hamza913]

You nailed it ! If the Kalash convert to Islam that their choice. Its not like they are not Kalash anymore. They just lost their pagan faith and accepted Islam.

Asalamu Alaikum

Yes, but my point is Pakistan needs to work on dealing with religious minorities justly far more so than ethnic minorities.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Based on the UN General Assembly resolutions, the Kalash culture should be declared a UNESCO World Heritage site. The global community should undertake serious efforts for the protection and conservation of Kalash culture.

http://www.ahrchk.org/ruleoflawasia.net/news.php?id=AHRC-ART-049-2016


So the Baloch are discriminated against because they are Muslim or because they are Baloch? Or how about the Pathan community in Karachi?

We have no obligation to protect their pagan faith if the Kalash convert to Islam by their own choice. They are still Kalash but they have become Muslim.

That is where i disagree with you

But they are not converting of their own volition:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1030779/conversions-threaten-ancient-kalash-tribe/

Sorry but in the tribune article it said thousands of Kalash are accepting Islam by their own choice. Now I know you are trolling

 

[Hamza913]

So the Baloch are discriminated against because they are Muslim or because they are Baloch? Or how about the Pathan community in Karachi?

Baseless allegations, people often just cherry pick random incidents and paint everyone from these communities as discriminated against.

It's like saying Pakistanis are 2nd class citizens in the UK because of Britain first. It's a delusional statement.

 

[Divergent]

This is a report from a Pakistani newspaper:

https://www.dawn.com/news/1266546

I am happy to share reports from non Pakistan papers too, which are far more critical!


It's already been reported by HRW and the UN working group on HR in South Asia:
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/india

Their minorities are far more at risk to a point where their own journalist Gauri Lashkar was shot for making a stance considering she was a prominent journalist.

Minorities everywhere are attacked including the recent ‘award to hunt a Muslim’ brochure that was currently issued in the South London which is now being investigated by the anti-terror squad since it’s frightening the hell out of residence including a stabbing. Let’s look into our own backyard first.

 

[Wolfhunter]

Sorry but in the tribune article it said thousands of Kalash are accepting Islam by their own choice. Now I know you are trolling

I am not trolling, here is another report for you to digest:
https://www.voanews.com/a/no-relief-for-kalash-in-pakistan-valley-of-kafirs/3446943.html

 

[MultaniGuy]

I am not trolling, here is another report for you to digest:
https://www.voanews.com/a/no-relief-for-kalash-in-pakistan-valley-of-kafirs/3446943.html

That is voice of America. I do not trust it.

It is well known fact that forced conversions are forbidden in Islam.

You should read this from the dawn article.

"This month’s attack on the Kalash again brought out their tradition of tolerance. Reena, a 14-year-old Kalash girl, was reported to have converted to Islam and chosen to stay with a Muslim family. Then she went back to her parents’ home and complained of having been forcibly converted. This enraged the Muslim neighbours and they attacked Kalash homes. The authorities intervened and the parties agreed to respect the girl’s wishes. The matter ended when the girl deposed before a magistrate that she had adopted Islam of her own free will, and her family accepted her choice."

https://www.dawn.com/news/1266546

The Kalash are converting to Islam by their own choice.

Now I have caught you red handed!

 

[Wolfhunter]

Let’s look into our own backyard first.

Umm, I have said this before and I will repeat myself again. My time here on PDF is academic, I wish to interact and learn about the Pakistani thought process behind certain drivers. This is not a US and Them game as you are making out in your post.

You speak about "let us deal with our own back yard", part of my role is working closely with organisations like Tell Mama so I do know what is going on in the U.K and actually do my part in countering hate speech and violent extremism in the United Kingdom.

At present I would like to learn from Pakistanis why is it that there is a selective approach to protection of faith but not of cultural identity? You are free to interject so long as it drives this existing trust of the original question forward without further deviation.

@dsr478 you sound most reasonable, please explain can you protect the faith and ignore the cultural aspects of the Kalash people. Or would you agree with @Iqbal Ali that should Kalash convert they would remain Kalash but become "Muslim" Kalash?

If that were the case then once the Kalash were all Muslim, there would be no reason to celebrate the festival of Choimus which is a pagan festival and idolatry is forbidden in Islam. It would also mean that the house temples would need to be desecrated and overall would diminish a very vibrant and beautiful culture from human history.

You are free ofcourse to correct me or add your own narrative so that I may better understand your reasoning.

Cheers!

It's like saying Pakistanis are 2nd class citizens in the UK because of Britain first. It's a delusional statement.

So the grievances of the Baloch people are baseless?