U.S. suspends cooperation on jet engine technology with India

[newb3e]

indians are amazif they never accept defeat they always have an excuse ready a reason to thump their 56 inch ki boobies like a baboon!

 

[SABRE]

I didn't think the US would slap the Indians the way it has. Surprised as I thought India was America's favourite poodle.

America has no favorite poodle. Even the ones that sit in their laps and lick their feet can eventually get a boot to the butt. American foreign policy is extremely short sighted and interest driven. If they do not see interests materialize in short term or that they have materialized to their satisfaction and need not be further pursued they then are likely to abandon their cooperating partner if it is of no further use. Barring handful of individuals the U.S. Congress has not been actively pro-Pakistan but Bush senior, Clinton, Bush Jr. & Obama all had adopted a few but quite impacting anti-Pakistan policies (not that we didn't give them any reason not to) to appease and charm India in addition to technology and strategic cooperation. Unfortunately for the U.S. their extension of cooperation to India over the past two decades has yielded too little. For instance, relaxing of some of the US national export control laws did not result in India buying dual-use technologies from them. NSG waiver did not result in India buying the U.S. nuclear reactors. India's inclusion in MTCR has not resulted in Indo-US tech cooperation in space rockets or U.S. BMD & Air Defence systems. India instead went for Russian nuclear reactors and S400.

Thus, when a capitalist and corporate mindset driven President in the form of Donald Trump came into power he started booting all that has not yielded profits. Since he is a businessman and not a traditional politician he mainly strikes non-profitable partners with trade tarrifs and cancelations of cooperative understandings and agreements. His new found love for Pakistan is also interest driven. He expects a profit (whether financial or political/strategic) in return. Otherwise, much like previous Presidents he has a boot for us also.

 

[Beast]

Irrelevant. USA never gave any technology to India even before 2016. USA even denied selling the ARROW BMD to India (even without TOT) for fear of reverse engineering.


There is no over estimation. India simply does not need anything else. India already makes Kaveri engine (though it is just 81kN and hence insufficient for Tejas) and Al31FP engine.


India already makes AL3FP as well as Kaveri engine. But these are older generation ones. India is seeking to develop newer generation 110kN engine. India needs lot of design time for it and is trying to cut it short by technology transfer, if possible. There is no desperation

Don't be self delusion. Kaveri until now is still a failure. No demonstrated as a usable and operational engine on Tejas or anyother fighter jets.

AL3FP claiming as licenses product is a myth. Many core parts are still needed to be imported from Russia with final assemble in India as domestic product engine. No country is stupid enough to all full TOT for a decent class jet engine no matter how much u paid.

End of the day, India learn nothing much from this license produced scheme. More of the hardwork still need to be produced by India themselves which until now has not materialise. India missed the boat of getting Ukraine to join them in such bid as Chinese has already rope them in with their tech and engineerers. These left Indian without much choice. France and UK will still be just another US with strict off limit for crucial TOT or share knowledge for high end jet engine.

 

[pakpride00090]

America has no favorite poodle. Even the ones that sit in their laps and lick their feet can eventually get a boot to the butt. American foreign policy is extremely short sighted and interest driven. If they do not see interests materialize in short term or that they have materialized to their satisfaction and need not be further pursued they then are likely to abandon their cooperating partner if it is of no further use. Barring handful of individuals the U.S. Congress has not been actively pro-Pakistan but Bush senior, Clinton, Bush Jr. & Obama all had adopted a few but quite impacting anti-Pakistan policies (not that we didn't give them any chance not to) to appease and charm India in addition to technology and strategic cooperation. Unfortunately for the U.S. their extension of cooperation to India over the past two decades has yielded too little. For instance, relaxing of some of the US national export control laws did not result in India buying dual-use technologies from them. NSG waiver did not result in India buying the U.S. nuclear reactors. India's inclusion in MTCR has not resulted in Indo-US tech cooperation in space rockets or U.S. BMD & Air Defence systems. India instead went for Russian nuclear reactors and S400.

Thus, when a capitalism and corporate mindset driven President in the form of Donald Trump came into power he started booting all that has not yielded profits. Since he is a businessman and not a traditional politician he mainly strikes non-profitable partners with trade tarrifs and cancelations of cooperative understanding and agreements. His new found love for Pakistan is also interest driven. He expects a profit (whether financial or political/strategic) in return. Otherwise, much like previous Presidents he has a boot for us also.

How would you explain the case of Israel ? Is it really that worth for Americans to antagonize a large segment of world's population by its unconditional support for Israel ? What do you really think are the objectives, America is trying to achieve ? What do you think is the end goal ?

Don't be self delusion. Kaveri until now is still a failure. No demonstrated as a usable and operational engine on Tejas or anyother fighter jets.

AL3FP claiming as licenses product is a myth. Many core parts are still needed to be imported from Russia with final assemble in India as domestic product engine. No country is stupid enough to all full TOT for a decent class jet engine no matter how much u paid.

End of the day, India learn nothing much from this license produced scheme. More of the hardwork still need to be produced by India themselves which until now has not materialise. India missed the boat of getting Ukraine to join them in such bid as Chinese has already rope them in with their tech and engineerers. These left Indian without much choice. France and UK will still be just another US with strict off limit for crucial TOT or share knowledge for high end jet engine.

Yet these Indians demonize China for doing what is necessary for national security ? China's rise in military technology is a combination of skillful electronic espionage and heavy investment in local research and development. People can criticize China all they want but the fact is they have achieved their objectives one way or the other. The end justifies the means.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

How would you explain the case of Israel ? Is it really that worth for Americans to antagonize a large segment of world's population by its unconditional support for Israel ? What do you really think are the objectives, America is trying to achieve ? What do you think is the end goal ?



Yet these Indians demonize China for doing what is necessary for national security ? China's rise in military technology is a combination of skillful electronic espionage and heavy investment in local research and development. People can criticize China all they want but the fact is they have achieved their objectives one way or the other. The end justifies the means.

All properties are stolen - Carl Marx

 

[Beast]

How would you explain the case of Israel ? Is it really that worth for Americans to antagonize a large segment of world's population by its unconditional support for Israel ? What do you really think are the objectives, America is trying to achieve ? What do you think is the end goal ?



Yet these Indians demonize China for doing what is necessary for national security ? China's rise in military technology is a combination of skillful electronic espionage and heavy investment in local research and development. People can criticize China all they want but the fact is they have achieved their objectives one way or the other. The end justifies the means.

Not only that. Aeroengine development is an expensive and tedious process. China dump in USD24 billion in R&D for aeroengine alone. Not to mention additional cost for production plant setup and technician training. Hardly any countries can afford such kind of investment. There is no shortcut regards to development engine.

 

[waz]

France and UK will still be just another US with strict off limit for crucial TOT or share knowledge for high end jet engine.

Yep they won’t get nothing. Heck Rolls Royce didn’t even share much of the tech for the EJ-2000 e.g. combustion processes with Typhoon partners.

 

[SABRE]

How would you explain the case of Israel ? Is it really that worth for Americans to antagonize a large segment of world's population by its unconditional support for Israel ? What do you really think are the objectives, America is trying to achieve ? What do you think is the end goal ?

Israel is indeed an exceptional case but I do not think it is an exception. Sounds complex, I know. Most scholars are unable to define US-Israel relations, much like they are unable to define Sino-Pakistan relations. But in the end, it's all about interests. But unlike other ethnic and religious groups the Israeli/Jewish/Zionist interest converge not just with the US interests but US state itself. Unlike other migrant ethnic and religious groups the Jews are considered integral part of American society and state, or at least they have successfully propagated this. They have injected themselves in the American history. It is quite common to come across references like "Judeo-Christian history of the U.S" or "Christian Zionism" in the U.S. The Jews are quite a dominant force in the American academic, media, political, bureaucratic, technological, lobbying, business (trade, commerce, and banking), military, and what not circles. The American nuclear strength exists due to efforts of the Jewish academics, scientists and engineers. People like Henry Kissinger have shaped the American foreign policy. Many of the American elite Jewish mindsets and influential people hold equal loyalty to Zionism and the state of Israel (though they hold American citizenship they also seem to consider Israel as their homeland). But many also appose Zionism and the state of Israel. Thus, much as it is difficult to separate Jews from America it is also difficult to separate America and Israel. Even though, on few occasions Israel has gone against American interests. Israeli Air Force once attacked US Navy disguising their F-4 Phantoms (?) as Egyptian aircraft.

 

[pakpride00090]

Israel is indeed an exceptional case but I do not think it is an exception. Sounds complex, I know. Most scholars are unable to define US-Israel relations, much like they are unable to define Sino-Pakistan relations. But in the end, it's all about interests. But unlike other ethnic and religious groups the Israeli/Jewish/Zionist interest converge not just with the US interests but US state itself. Unlike other migrant ethnic and religious groups the Jews are considered integral part of American society and state, or at least they have successfully propagated this. They have injected themselves in the American history. It is quite common to come across references like "Judeo-Christian history of the U.S" or "Christian Zionism" in the U.S. The Jews are quite a dominant force in the American academic, media, political, bureaucratic, technological, lobbying, business (trade, commerce, and banking), military, and what not circles. The American nuclear strength exists due to efforts of the Jewish academics, scientists and engineers. People like Henry Kissinger have shaped the American foreign policy. Many of the American elite Jewish mindsets and influential people hold equal loyalty to Zionism and the state of Israel (though they hold American citizenship they also seem to consider Israel as their homeland). But many also appose Zionism and the state of Israel. Thus, much as it is difficult to separate Jews from America it is also difficult to separate America and Israel. Even though, on few occasions Israel has gone against American interests. Israeli Air Force once attacked US Navy disguising their F-4 Phantoms (?) as Egyptian aircraft.

Insightful. You should participate more on the forums. Your post to year ratio is abysmal

 

[Rank]

The peo

We need to unite in Asia to develop this critical tech and then share with each other. Only China is doing anything. West have 150 years head start on jet engine when rest of the world was still colonized.

Agreed with you but again the problem is with Indian obsessed govt who has problem and continuously busy in creating chaOs, anarchy and destabilization in the region. Its actually nothing new. It happens when you have chooses a small, selfish and highest level of asshole as a head of state and later he has appointed a similar kind of people like Army chief along with other government officials who were obsessed with others and having similar kind of Jingoistic mind-set. So expecting something in current scenario is next to impossible...

 

[SABRE]

Insightful. You should participate more on the forums. Your post to year ratio is abysmal

Thank you so much. Though in an effort to be humble I try not to seek validation but it feels nice to be validated and appreciated Life is tough and busy now days. But, I am lurking around here quite often, seeking knowledge and information, and occasionally giving my input if/when it feels worthwhile.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

India doesnt need engine co-operation with the USA, i mean didnt India get all the tech transfer they needed including single crystal blade technology from Russia as part of the Su30MKI deal?

Yes it does. Huge blow to tejas amca program if true. It'll have to look at Europe. But I doubt it'll be a big deal. Both the f16 n f18 are under tender. Both need the engines.

Nvm this on a jv program. No doubt that won't happen. No one will give away their silk worms.

 

[Adonis]

No surprises there.
Strategic allies (according to some Indian posters).

Per my information, India is US's strategic Partner not an Ally of US (and certainly not "Iron Brother" like our China-Pak relations). It is not in US camp for everything. Allies are countries like UK who are blindfolded in towing the line of US.
Indians are shrewd. They have relations with many countries and in the end they will get it somehow. They got Cryogenic rocket tech. too, despite sanctions.
Besides, I am surprised that US had signed such deal with India, Given US is quite conservative when it comes to ToT, especially on a niche area.

 

[Nein]

Either make your own or get slapped.

This should be a lesson to everybody.

 

[Sid Dogra]

As someone following Tejas' history from here, the LCA program was scuttled due to sanctions and refusal to return India's own research work submitted to Boeing for consulting purposes. India needs to put pressure on domestic production.

I am sure there are geniuses out there who are not being utilized correctly.