Type 052D destroyer VS Horizon-class frigate

[Alienware]

French PAAMS (although inferior to British PAAMS) is still a better air-defense system than the Type 054D. We are kidding ourselves if we think we have anything on par with AEGIS or PAAMS. The west is still ahead, WAY ahead. Lets face reality.

 

[Alienware]

The Type 052D's VLS is universal, it can be fit with any type of missile.

So each unit of the VLS can either have one HHQ-9 or four HQ-16Bs, meanwhile it can include the YJ anti-ship missiles, the CJ/DH cruise missiles, and the anti-sub missiles.

Even the HQ-26 (China's own SM-3) can be fit into a canister of the CCL VLS.



The HHQ-9 is more than 200km, the improved version is about 300km according our PLAN General.

PAAMS is comparable to the HQ-16B, which both are about a bit over 100km.

PAAMS is not a missile, its a highly sophisticated air-defense system! The fact that you are mistaking PAAMS for a missile, kind-of renders your opinion pointless and shows you have a lack of knowledge on the subject.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

PAAMS is not a missile, its a highly sophisticated air-defense system! The fact that you are mistaking PAAMS for a missile, kind-of renders your opinion pointless and shows you have a lack of knowledge on the subject.

I made a typo, and stop quoting me, i don't have the intention to reply your post.

 

[Alienware]

I made a typo, and stop quoting me, i don't have the intention to reply your post.

Err... typing PAAMS instead of Aster does not qualify as a "typo"!

Anyway, the Aster 30 out performs the HQ-9 in every aspect - except for range:
Aster 30, 120 km
HQ-9, 200 km

However, the slightly extended range of the HQ-9 is rather pointless as the 052D is simply not powerful enough to make effective use of it. PAAMS is in a totally separate league to our current 052Ds.

It is also quite humorous that you would suggest Aster 30 is comparable to HQ-16B Stop being nationalistic (it is fogging your mind) and face reality.

I am proud of my countries achievements, but I am humble enough to recognize that the Europeans and Americans operate far more advanced and sophisticated naval air defenses than us.

 

[Audio]

I made a typo, and stop quoting me, i don't have the intention to reply your post.

It's your habit to not reply to posters that expose your lack of knowledge.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Err... typing PAAMS instead of Aster does not qualify as a "typo"!

Anyway, the Aster 30 out performs the HQ-9 in every aspect - except for range:
Aster 30, 120 km
HQ-9, 200 km

However, the slightly extended range of the HQ-9 is rather pointless as the 052D is simply not powerful enough to make effective use of it. PAAMS is in a totally separate league to our current 052Ds.

It is also quite humorous that you would suggest Aster 30 is comparable to HQ-16B Stop being nationalistic (it is fogging your mind) and face reality.

I am proud of my countries achievements, but I am humble enough to recognize that the Europeans and Americans operate far more advanced and sophisticated naval air defenses than us.

Yeah, i made a typo, i didn't sleep well last night.

OP made an error of asking me about HHQ-9 vs PAAMS, which is apple compare to orange. I accidentally typed PAAMS instead of Aster.

And you and the rest of anti-China trolls are grasping this opportunity to bash my credibility.

Get lost, you are newbie troll, no one believes you are pro-China.

 

[Alienware]

Yeah, i made a typo, i didn't sleep well last night.

OP made an error of asking me about HHQ-9 vs PAAMS, which is apple compare to orange. I accidentally typed PAAMS instead of Aster.

And you and the rest of anti-China trolls are grasping this opportunity to bash my credibility.

Get lost, you are newbie troll, no one believes you are pro-China.

You didn't sleep? Oh you poor thing you! Shame on the OP for making you type PAAMS instead of Aster, how dare he do that to you, it is positively evil. *cough* sarcasm *cough*

So because I called you out on your lack of knowledge I am a "newbie troll"? You cannot possibly be serious? Also, because I am a realist and am not blinded and deluded by nationalism I am anti-China? WTF?!

Congratulations brother! Way to lose an argument!

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You didn't sleep? Oh you poor thing you! Shame on the OP for making you type PAAMS instead of Aster, how dare he do that to you, it is positively evil. *cough* sarcasm *cough*

So because I called you out on your lack of knowledge I am a "newbie troll"? You cannot possibly be serious? Also, because I am a realist and am not blinded and deluded by nationalism I am anti-China? WTF?!

Congratulations brother! Way to lose an argument!

I am not denying that USA is overall more advanced, but you typical "the west must better in everything" just showed you are just a spineless a$$licker.

Get lost, i don't have time to waste with you.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@gambit @ChineseTiger1986 @Alienware

don't u think that the possible induction of cm-400 akg gives Type 052D an edge over the Horizon-class frigate ???

 

[Genesis]

Then it depends on the level of training. Remember, we have the world's best training program that everyone wish they could have. Prior to Desert Storm, we have nothing to the same scale since WW II. But self criticisms and persistence in training made possible the spectacular combat successes of Desert Storm. I know the Chinese members here have little respect for Desert Storm and that will be why the PLA will lose in any shooting fight against US.

Ok I have the feeling you been in desert storm, cause no one else keeps bring that up.

In boxing, a good boxer against a bad one can still clearly demonstrate his skills by winning by KO or a large margin. You can still gauge his skill level.

However it is against someone of equal or superior level can one find out more about the boxer.

Hence why Mayweather has been questioned his whole career, though it is more than apparent he is the P4P best, even though his opponent hasn't been great.

I am not saying desert storm isn't important, it showed the level of the US military, but there are lots of other factors that contributes to a conflict.

For example, Desert Storm isn't a perfect operation, but Iraq doesn't have the power to exploit it, but a country such as Russia or China may pounce on it.

Not saying we are better or equal to US, but when the difference isn't THAT big, one has to be cautious, we both have the power to KO each other, it's just that with the skill level it is more likely for you to defeat us than the other way around, but not impossible.

A good sports analogy, that's why we play the games.



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I know you think the US is the only country that self criticizes, but it is not so, so do we. Everyone saw desert storm, and a lot of people made predictions from all over the world, but to date, why did we make the biggest jump in terms of technological improvement, why did we become the second largest spender, why did we cut the number of military personnel time after time.

Our training program change all the time, we improve it all the time. We haven't been standing still. I know what the you thinks about Chinese attitude, like we are still the communist of old, but just think about it, if we were can we even be at where we are today? You give us way too less credit, if it's so easy, why are we even considered a threat.

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Also to your last point, it is kinda stupid, a shooting war? Do you know why Bismark didn't march on Vienna after his victory like Napoleon and didn't make the French suffer too much, he wanted alliances later.

Even aside from the fact that there is MAD, the US would want a balance of power in Asia, if China is completely defeated, it is just as bad if not worse for US. Due to the size of China and population, US can never hope to contain us the same way it did Japan, that's just a fact, so a relationship is still very much needed.

It's similar to why France was not split up after Napoleonic wars and concert of Europe was created, it is also something that contributed to Napoleon's end because he didn't care to understand it.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Whose navy have the better combat experience in what ship? That is the more relevant question.

We are not talking about a combat experienced WW II era ship versus a modern one, even though a modified and modernized American battlewagon like the USS Iowa will give any opponent a fatal migraine, rather, we are talking about two post WW II ships that are relatively comparable in technology but whose RECENT institutional memories have a gross difference in combat experience to the same degree as if we are comparing a WW I ship against a modern one.

COMBAT EXPERIENCE ?

Please educate me @gambit, when was there a Combat in last 40 years.

Maybe I missed something.

Did United States of America have Combat in last 40 years ?

And please don't mention Nicaragua or Grenada invasions.

I mean when was the last time the US fought against a worthy opponent ?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

@gambit @ChineseTiger1986 @Alienware

don't u think that the possible induction of cm-400 akg gives Type 052D an edge over the Horizon-class frigate ???

Of course, the Type 052D is overall much more advanced than the Horizon class, but the anti-China trolls will say otherwise.

 

[Neptune]

Despite Chinese 52's AESA Radar, i say French/Italian Horizon. There isn't much info given about weapon systems of 52D at @RAMPAGE's post, BUT when compared to Horizon's armament such as Aster-15/30, missile inventory...French origin fire control radars...etc. Not to mention THALES's assistance at this project. At some sites it says 52D uses HQ-7 which's succeeded by HQ-9. 52 lacks in missile capabilities&inventory, ASW and ASuW and a big factor that Horizon's advantage is: "Stealth technology".
In deed, I think 52 does not have the destroyer qualifications IMO. Yes it's a great AAW ship that I really admire but I think there are a few facts that 52 lacks against Horizon.

So Again, despite Type 52D's 4x AESA radar, I say Horizon. If there are facts I gave wrong please correct me. my2cents...

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Despite Chinese 52's AESA Radar, i say French/Italian Horizon. There isn't much info given about weapon systems of 52D at @RAMPAGE's post, BUT when compared to Horizon's armament such as Aster-15/30, missile inventory...French origin fire control radars...etc. Not to mention THALES's assistance at this project. At some sites it says 52D uses HQ-7 which's succeeded by HQ-9. 52 lacks in missile capabilities&inventory, ASW and ASuW and a big factor that Horizon's advantage is: "Stealth technology".
In deed, I think 52 does not have the destroyer qualifications IMO. Yes it's a great AAW ship that I really admire but I think there are a few facts that 52 lacks against Horizon.

So Again, despite Type 52D's 4x AESA radar, I say Horizon. If there are facts I gave wrong please correct me. my2cents...

It is bullsh!t, even the Type 052C uses the HHQ-9.

When the Horizon class got the four AESA radars like the AN/SPY-3 and the VLS like the MK 57, then go to compare with the Type 052D.

 

[Neptune]

It is bullsh!t, even the Type 052C uses the HHQ-9.

When the Horizon class got the four AESA radars like the AN/SPY-3 and the VLS like the MK 57, then go to compare with the Type 052D.

but you can't compare two warships by only their AAW capabilities and radar...even if we take it as a 'yes', Horizon class is way better than 52 in all specs except for your lovely radars and umm maybe AAW, but just maybe. Not to mention the big stealth factor.