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Twitter Suspends Pakistan Defence Forum Without any Warning - Again

Can't disagree. The lack of lobbying is the first hurdle. Did not expect much in previous tenures but since establishing of Digital Pakistan initiative; current ruling quarters are somehow in knowledge of the matter but no progress seen as of yet.
can someone contact PTI media team to reach concern in IT ministry or directly to IT ministry, the only possible solutions for this issue which I can think
you will keep facing such issues till the time twitter keep handling traffic from Pakistan Twitter facility in India; the possible solution could be either to convince twitter to entertain twitter through Dubai office (via mass movement, for this public awareness of online community is require) or somehow twitter find it beneficial to have an office in Pakistan (here government could play a role) which is near to impossible as they already have 4 offices close to Pakistan (3 in India, 1 in Dubai)
 
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That is applicable only within the territories of India. Twitter is liable to only limit access within India not outside!

The original ban was the result of violation of Twitter's rules, not GoI:

from: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules

Abusive Behavior
We believe in freedom of expression and open dialogue, but that means little as an underlying philosophy if voices are silenced because people are afraid to speak up. In order to ensure that people feel safe expressing diverse opinions and beliefs, we prohibit behavior that crosses the line into abuse, including behavior that harasses, intimidates, or uses fear to silence another user’s voice.

Context matters when evaluating for abusive behavior and determining appropriate enforcement actions. Factors we may take into consideration include, but are not limited to whether:

  • the behavior is targeted at an individual or group of people;
  • the report has been filed by the target of the abuse or a bystander;
  • the behavior is newsworthy and in the legitimate public interest.
Violence and physical harm

Violence: You may not make specific threats of violence or wish for the serious physical harm, death, or disease of an individual or group of people. This includes, but is not limited to, threatening or promoting terrorism. You also may not affiliate with organizations that — whether by their own statements or activity both on and off the platform — use or promote violence against civilians to further their causes.

Suicide or self-harm: You may not promote or encourage suicide or self-harm. When we receive reports that a person is threatening suicide or self-harm, we may take a number of steps to assist them, such as reaching out to that person and providing resources such as contact information for our mental health partners.

Child sexual exploitation: You may not promote child sexual exploitation. Learn more about our zero-tolerance child sexual exploitation policy.


hateful conduct policy.

Abuse: You may not engage in the targeted harassment of someone, or incite other people to do so. We consider abusive behavior an attempt to harass, intimidate, or silence someone else’s voice.

Hateful imagery and display names: You may not use hateful images or symbols in your profile image or profile header. You also may not use your username, display name, or profile bio to engage in abusive behavior, such as targeted harassment or expressing hate towards a person, group, or protected category.


private information policy.

Private information: You may not publish or post other people's private information without their express authorization and permission. Definitions of private information may vary depending on local laws. Read more about our private information policy.

Intimate media: You may not post or share intimate photos or videos of someone that were produced or distributed without their consent. Media depicting sexual violence and/or assault is also not permitted. Note: limited exceptions may apply if there is clear context that the interaction is consensual. Read more about intimate media on Twitter.

Threats to expose / hack: You may not threaten to expose someone’s private information or intimate media. You also may not threaten to hack or break into someone’s digital information or attempt to incentivize others to do so (e.g., through setting a bounty or reward on such actions).

Impersonation

You may not impersonate individuals, groups, or organizations in a manner that is intended to or does mislead, confuse, or deceive others. While you may maintain parody, fan, commentary, or newsfeed accounts, you may not do so if the intent of the account is to engage in spamming or abusive behavior. Read more about our impersonation policy.



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More here:

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies#twitter-rules
 
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It's obviously due to the complaints of Indians - they are quite adept at building up a case.

But PDF certainly is not helping itself. A lot of the Kashmir threads cross ethical and moral lines. The current threads celebrating Kashmir snipers is an example. Previously people were lauding the targeting of policemen's families in Kashmir - in no world would that be seen as acceptable.

And if the site is seen to be endorsing this in any way, that is a major problem - I'm sure its not difficult for an Indian to demonstrate that.

The site had an excellent policy of zero tolerance to terrorist supporters. Pakistani members need to understand the difference between highlighting a just cause and promoting terrorism.
 
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The problem lies in inability to discern the role of administration, a patriot and a conduit of targeted news. You can not get away being all three without ramifications.

There is an increasing problem of fake news and targeted news being used to 'twist' facts, and twitter may have acted in accordance with the actions which have been undertaken by certain members of administration here, whose job was to filter the same and nip the issue in the bud.

There exist numerous instances of such fake news/information/distortions being replicated, processed and re-dispensed here itself, that the same being percolated into twitter posting is also nothing new. One can push their luck only so far.

This is patently false. The GoI is using a specific domestic law to target non-Indian content. Whether that content is official or unofficial is pointless. The GoI is not arguing that a content is “blaring any lines” instead it’s appealing on national security grounds. Hundreds of Pakistani and Kashmiri accounts were banned or requested to be banned. It’s disingenuous to argue they were targeted due to “blaring of lines” or “fake news” grounds. Notion Defence.pk was targeted due to a photoshopped image is preposterous. You have no evidence to back this claim. What we have instead are dozens of GoI requests and they exclusively rely on national security grounds to request the ban.

https://lumendatabase.org/notices/search?sort_by=&term=Legal+Request+to+Twitter+from+India+&utf8=✓

The original ban was the result of violation of Twitter's rules, not GoI:

from: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-rules

Abusive Behavior
We believe in freedom of expression and open dialogue, but that means little as an underlying philosophy if voices are silenced because people are afraid to speak up. In order to ensure that people feel safe expressing diverse opinions and beliefs, we prohibit behavior that crosses the line into abuse, including behavior that harasses, intimidates, or uses fear to silence another user’s voice.

Context matters when evaluating for abusive behavior and determining appropriate enforcement actions. Factors we may take into consideration include, but are not limited to whether:

  • the behavior is targeted at an individual or group of people;
  • the report has been filed by the target of the abuse or a bystander;
  • the behavior is newsworthy and in the legitimate public interest.
Violence and physical harm

Violence: You may not make specific threats of violence or wish for the serious physical harm, death, or disease of an individual or group of people. This includes, but is not limited to, threatening or promoting terrorism. You also may not affiliate with organizations that — whether by their own statements or activity both on and off the platform — use or promote violence against civilians to further their causes.

Suicide or self-harm: You may not promote or encourage suicide or self-harm. When we receive reports that a person is threatening suicide or self-harm, we may take a number of steps to assist them, such as reaching out to that person and providing resources such as contact information for our mental health partners.

Child sexual exploitation: You may not promote child sexual exploitation. Learn more about our zero-tolerance child sexual exploitation policy.


hateful conduct policy.

Abuse: You may not engage in the targeted harassment of someone, or incite other people to do so. We consider abusive behavior an attempt to harass, intimidate, or silence someone else’s voice.

Hateful imagery and display names: You may not use hateful images or symbols in your profile image or profile header. You also may not use your username, display name, or profile bio to engage in abusive behavior, such as targeted harassment or expressing hate towards a person, group, or protected category.


private information policy.

Private information: You may not publish or post other people's private information without their express authorization and permission. Definitions of private information may vary depending on local laws. Read more about our private information policy.

Intimate media: You may not post or share intimate photos or videos of someone that were produced or distributed without their consent. Media depicting sexual violence and/or assault is also not permitted. Note: limited exceptions may apply if there is clear context that the interaction is consensual. Read more about intimate media on Twitter.

Threats to expose / hack: You may not threaten to expose someone’s private information or intimate media. You also may not threaten to hack or break into someone’s digital information or attempt to incentivize others to do so (e.g., through setting a bounty or reward on such actions).

Impersonation

You may not impersonate individuals, groups, or organizations in a manner that is intended to or does mislead, confuse, or deceive others. While you may maintain parody, fan, commentary, or newsfeed accounts, you may not do so if the intent of the account is to engage in spamming or abusive behavior. Read more about our impersonation policy.



++++++++++++++++++



More here:

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies#twitter-rules

Accounts that call for violence have no sympathy but I distinctly remember Indian media personalities calling for annihilation of Pakistan in the aftermath of pathankot attacks last years in the run up to the “surgical attacks.” Some even called for the nuking of Pakistan. I am sure members can dig up those tweets. No action was ever taken by twitter.
 
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Accounts that call for violence have no sympathy but I distinctly remember Indian media personalities calling for annihilation of Pakistan in the aftermath of pathankot attacks last years in the run up to the “surgical attacks.” Some even called for the nuking of Pakistan. I am sure members can dig up those tweets. No action was ever taken by twitter.

Making the effort to prove a violation of the rules is the key.
 
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Horus, I entirely understand your situation. First and foremost I want to take this opportunity to thank PDF for giving us all a platform to express our thoughts. The problem you face is a problem many of us face. It's easy to burn tyres, call for jihad or run amok in Lahore in protest of wrongs done us Pakistan or Muslims.

But here is the reality. We live in a global community. It matters nought what is wrong, what is fair or what is justice. What matters is the influence you acquire or goodwill you secure across thre globe. This can be achieved in a myriad of ways but I economic leverage is amongst the top of the list along with cultivating relations with significant global entities. To do so cannot be done by burning tyres on Faizabad Chowk.

Increasingly India'ds economic clout is gaining upper hand. In addition Pakistan's stock value has hit rock bottom. One thing I would suggest PDF to do. Please never tie your flag on causes that are hopeless. Stay out of Palestine, Rohingya or Uighur politics. These are hot potatoes and you will end up wasting your limited goodwill. Reserve that for specific Pakistani orientated issues. I was never fan of Musharaf but I think he got one thing right "Pakistan First".

As regards the issue you have I would suggest you contact Pakistan government to apply pressure on Twitter. In addition ask all PDF members to sign up for a protest. If indeed there are issues because the Twitters administrative loop the Indian'ds have managed infest themselves [which is very probable] then you need to push for change on that front.

The problem your going to find is the moment you say 'Pakistan' in any situation you go on the backfoot. The benefit of doubt that migt be given goes out of the window. Suddenly you find yourself flying into the wind. In my experiance only Turks and to some degree Chinese cut some positive slack when you self youself as 'Pakistani'.

Please keep us posted.

I have always been the one to say that the Palestinian cause is a lost one and it's not our problem either.

Thats why it is called the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.


Don't forget India's soft power of bollywood is helping them as well.


I agree with you, to hell with the Rohingya, Uighur, and Palestinian issues. Those are not our problems.

The most powerful global forces today are USA, Europe and China. This is the reality. And Pakistan is a fragile country with a weak economy which could be easily snuffed as we have seen with recent desperate financial situation. In this hostile environment Pakistani's have to navigate very, very cautiously. This means following the path of least resistence. Which means as much as you can fly with the headwind and only go against it when it becomes absolutely vital to core Pakistani interests.

We must keep in mind big business in USA and that includes the media is dominated by Jews. Many of the large US corporations are owned by Jews. So if you spit in their face over Israel in some suicidal effort to clam up with Palestinians, croak on about Uighur Muslims, bitch about Europeans the net result is your going to find yourself right at the bottom and isolated. This is exactly what Pakistan has done as a nation. We just made up enemies when there was never any need for it.

The Indian's have done opposite of this. They have cultivated relations with evderybody. This means in any India/Pak tiff we always get the shafting as evreybody bends backwards to accomodate India.Pakistan has made itself a public relations manager's nightmare.

Ps. I have even on PDF seen members provoking the Chinese over Uighurs. It's like do we want to fcuk up one of the few countries that are pro Pakistan over the Uighurs. And the Chinese are very reactive to this Uighur issue. Or start giving Turks lessons on Islam when we know majority of them are very secular. That again annoys them.

Thanks. Really appreciate this post. Two countries are cool with Pakistan. Turkey and China. I place Turkey first. I don't draw this conclusion from PDF. I have been to Turkey. I have interacted with Turks in UK. I have interacted with Turks on various [western] forums. The relationship with Turkey is multilayered and has depth. The relation with China is vital but truth be told is just business. They really are a alien people to us. But of course that does not remove their importance to Pakistan geostragegic needs.

The problem is most Turks and Chinese [understandbly] often will refrain from giving Pakistani's advice. But a true friend should say it as it is even if the advice is bitter. And I appreciate you did that. The number of times I cringe when Pakistan starting shovelling religion into a discussion with Turks is annoying.

At it's most simplest the reason we are facing the problems and you touched on them are that Pakistani's have become contractors by self appoinment for 1.6 billion mass of humanity. It's akin to me becoming a contractor for humanity. I go out and spend all my money and energy on all the people in my city. But then I have no money left, no energy left to look after my own family. On top of that I get involved in every argumant out there that has nothing to do with me and make enemies everywhere which then blowback on my family. Could anybody do that and avoid suffering that would ensue?

Pakistan is beautiful country with so much potential. If only we could harness that energy for Pakistan itself. I was watching the newsreport of the new Istanbul Airport being opened. I can only dream that one day we will have a airport with 90 million passener capacity.

And here mate is the real Pakistan. Simple. Beautiful. Histiory going back to 5,000 years. Takht-e -Bahi often regarded as the earliest universties dating back to 2000 years ago. Then Bab-e-Khyber which stands next to the route taken by Central Asian invaders like Turkic Moghuls, to Greek Alexander, the Kushans and the huge military forts guarding the strategic routes. Watch it if you have time and let me know what you think. This is what we need to get out. Not bloody jihad factory.


I also said to hell with the Uighur issue. That is not our problem.


Most Pakistanis do not care about other countries, or stupid international causes. Pakistanis just care about Kashmir.

of course he was no white extremeist skinhead , he was a sane grown man from Scotland


I think most Pakistanis could give a less a crap whats going on in Xinjiang the ones who care are just mostly fourm members or idiots on Social Media yeah Arabs could give less a crap about us heck living in the States they seem to like the Indians more than us.Turks most likely to like Pakistanis but I agree they get annoyed when Pakistanis start bringing Religion to every topic or talking about "Sultan Erdogan"will take over the Muslim world again this not only dealing with Secular Turks but Turks who are sorta religious as well but one thing I really like about them be they are Secular or Religious as a people very nationalistic.

 
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Making the effort to prove a violation of the rules is the key.

Not necessarily. Twitter gets thousands of requests a day and doesn’t seem to have the time to go through each individual request. In some cases, these requests are genuine, for example number of people reported tweets by the suspect in the mail bomb attacks last week, and on each occasion twitter said those tweets didn’t violate its ToS. But they did and the problem was twitter using an IA to make the decision. When requests are made by government, it tends to go along with the request. Even then, Twitter approves only 17% of GoI requests which shows the excessive requests by the GoI and the assumption that it’s requests are a politically motivated. The problem is sometimes these requests are granted when they in fact don’t comply with ToS rules.
 
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It's obviously due to the complaints of Indians - they are quite adept at building up a case.

But PDF certainly is not helping itself. A lot of the Kashmir threads cross ethical and moral lines. The current threads celebrating Kashmir snipers is an example. Previously people were lauding the targeting of policemen's families in Kashmir - in no world would that be seen as acceptable.

And if the site is seen to be endorsing this in any way, that is a major problem - I'm sure its not difficult for an Indian to demonstrate that.

The site had an excellent policy of zero tolerance to terrorist supporters. Pakistani members need to understand the difference between highlighting a just cause and promoting terrorism.

I think it's preferable not to have twitter than to have this site sweep Kashmir under the table. The fact of the matter is the Kashmiri armed struggle is completely legitimate, regardless of what the kafirs think.

This website is a platform for Pakistani's by Pakistani's. If it was to white wash or dilute our interests it would be doing a dis-service to the exact reason it exists. Nobody is using this website to advocate criminality of any sort of terrorism. Freedom fighters targeting occupying forces in a declared conflict zone is completely legitimate.

This site and others like it had been the cornerstone of promoting Pakistan's interests and opinions online and amongst the Pakistani online community in a free and impartial way for nearly 2 decades. They have shaped tens of thousands of minds in that time. You can't back down because of twitter. More important than an international platform is having a platform for your own people, especially in a time where mainstream media is so easily paid to be anti state.
 
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The fightback has began!...RestoreDefencedotpk NOWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Good Luck!

Not necessarily. Twitter gets thousands of requests a day and doesn’t seem to have the time to go through each individual request. In some cases, these requests are genuine, for example number of people reported tweets by the suspect in the mail bomb attacks last week, and on each occasion twitter said those tweets didn’t violate its ToS. But they did and the problem was twitter using an IA to make the decision. When requests are made by government, it tends to go along with the request. Even then, Twitter approves only 17% of GoI requests which shows the excessive requests by the GoI and the assumption that it’s requests are a politically motivated. The problem is sometimes these requests are granted when they in fact don’t comply with ToS rules.

There is nothing preventing the GoP from doing the same. If there is any ToS compliance issue, then the matter can be pursued, if such grounds exist.
 
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I think it's preferable not to have twitter than to have this site sweep Kashmir under the table. The fact of the matter is the Kashmiri armed struggle is completely legitimate, regardless of what the kafirs think.

This website is a platform for Pakistani's by Pakistani's. If it was to white wash or dilute our interests it would be doing a dis-service to the exact reason it exists. Nobody is using this website to advocate criminality of any sort of terrorism. Freedom fighters targeting occupying forces in a declared conflict zone is completely legitimate.

Absolutely, the whole point of this site is to bring to the fore relevant discussion points so there should be no limits on this.

But not everyone understands how to present a legitimate point in a fruitful way. People have to remember that this a global medium - their struggle is not understood by everyone like a fellow Pakistani understands it.
 
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Good Luck!



There is nothing preventing the GoP from doing the same. If there is any ToS compliance issue, then the matter can be pursued, if such grounds exist.

I couldn’t agree more. Hopefully Pakistanis, including admins/moderators on this website one day will realize that we live in the Information Age and giving space to foreign propaganda will only harm the host in the long run. The US found this the hard way during the last elections when Russian bots and nationals decidedly influenced the outcome of the elections. Both the GoP and media houses, including this website have to figure out if accommodation of Indian views is desirable. Indian websites and forums don’t allow Pakistani voices for a reason.
 
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I couldn’t agree more. Hopefully Pakistanis, including admins/moderators on this website one day will realize that we live in the Information Age and giving space to foreign propaganda will only harm the host in the long run. The US found this the hard way during the last elections when Russian bots and nationals decidedly influenced the outcome of the elections. Both the GoP and media houses, including this website have to figure out if accommodation of Indian views is desirable. Indian websites and forums don’t allow Pakistani voices for a reason.

Those who play the game better accrue the benefits, plain and simple.
 
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Good Luck!
We do not nor wish any good luck from the likes of you, instead we will effectively make our case by galvanizing support among patriotic Pakistanis and when we are united......

 
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Absolutely, the whole point of this site is to bring to the fore relevant discussion points so there should be no limits on this.

But not everyone understands how to present a legitimate point in a fruitful way. People have to remember that this a global medium - their struggle is not understood by everyone like a fellow Pakistani understands it.

Yeah, quality of discourse does suffer sometimes. We literally need an army of mods policing the forum.
 
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