HannibalBarca
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Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter KediKesenFare3
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Dont use arab media for turkish affairs and if there will be support from the US then it will be behind the scenes anyway. That patriot system deployment was already very unlikely from the beginning.
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lets see
Elvin
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Can someone please clarify WHY TR needs the Patriot system?
Tr has the S-400, why not use it for self defense?
Besides, the Patriot system has been battle proven to be mediocre at best.
Finally, the Hawk system can be deployed with a 40 KM range, however, this system is based on 1960s tech and I doubt it will be effective.
The one things this conflict has exposed is the vulnerability TR has in air defense, surface to surface missile capabilities and limited air ability (based on relying solely on the single engine F-16 model). I am glad to see projects in the pipeline that will improve TRs abilities in all aforementioned areas, however Tr is a decade late. Also, this conflict has exposed how NATO is useless.
Even though I don't agree with their ideology, these guys have balls of steel. Respect.
Tr has the S-400, why not use it for self defense?
Besides, the Patriot system has been battle proven to be mediocre at best.
Finally, the Hawk system can be deployed with a 40 KM range, however, this system is based on 1960s tech and I doubt it will be effective.
The one things this conflict has exposed is the vulnerability TR has in air defense, surface to surface missile capabilities and limited air ability (based on relying solely on the single engine F-16 model). I am glad to see projects in the pipeline that will improve TRs abilities in all aforementioned areas, however Tr is a decade late. Also, this conflict has exposed how NATO is useless.
Even though I don't agree with their ideology, these guys have balls of steel. Respect.
HannibalBarca
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It's not about having or not AA, Even if today TR had Patriot, that wouldn't change anything on the ground...
As I said, before, As long as TR believe that "Harming" Russia is a greater problem for her, then she will let them behave as they wish.
It's a relation of "Strong and stronger"
IMO, The patriot "Stunt" is a way to create pressure on RU, by having this Sense of "back up", in hope to either push RU to the table or at least refrain RU using their planes on their forces...
And yes, This conflict is also an example of the weak "International Pack" that some swear upon in the last decades.
NATO is useless when you are not a NATO Founder.
Well... This entire decade has given... a new definition to what a "poor soldier" can do.
WarDaddy97
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Let me remind you some of my predictions I made a year ago.
I stated that after Erdogans purges, Turkish military is the shadow of itself. By jailing officers corps across all branches, Erdogan weakened TAFs combat readiness, military planning and leadership. Instead I heard:
-we’ll close down Incirlik
-Heyyyy America, you getting weak
-with Rusya, our new ally, we’ll rule this region
for some unknown reason most of you strongly believe that last 3 major ops conducted by your military were great success and would go into annals of military history. I beg to differ.
-Euphrates Shield. Poorly planned, lack of CAS(you even asked USA and RUAF for help) reliance on SF who did their best considering the are they had to cover. Multiple armor knocked out, bruising at Sheikh Aqeel Hill and overall very little captured territory. 6 month campaign.
Olive Branch-better planned but main objective-Tel Rifat- in the hands of regime allowing ypg to infiltrate. Keep in mind that Afrin region indeed, mountainous, but very small geographically. Shouldn’t take 2 month to capture. You gave loyalist plenty of time to reinforce TR. the only plusher active AF performance
Peace Spring. Again, I would not consider it as success. You wasted way too much precious time at some shithole of rus al ayn allowing regime and few Russian MPs and SF to gain a lot more.
having said that what you need to think about is your military really up to the task? Don’t you think your best and the brightest are in jail while military is led by RTEs lap dogs and yes men?
@Deliorman, I think you should open a new thread about Turkish Army combat readiness post coup. I ask you because you’re more analytical and honest and never engage in meaningless discussion such as “we hate Arabs” “ Zionism” “we have 5000 years of experience in warfare” “do you know Sultan Selim”
I stated that after Erdogans purges, Turkish military is the shadow of itself. By jailing officers corps across all branches, Erdogan weakened TAFs combat readiness, military planning and leadership. Instead I heard:
-we’ll close down Incirlik
-Heyyyy America, you getting weak
-with Rusya, our new ally, we’ll rule this region
for some unknown reason most of you strongly believe that last 3 major ops conducted by your military were great success and would go into annals of military history. I beg to differ.
-Euphrates Shield. Poorly planned, lack of CAS(you even asked USA and RUAF for help) reliance on SF who did their best considering the are they had to cover. Multiple armor knocked out, bruising at Sheikh Aqeel Hill and overall very little captured territory. 6 month campaign.
Olive Branch-better planned but main objective-Tel Rifat- in the hands of regime allowing ypg to infiltrate. Keep in mind that Afrin region indeed, mountainous, but very small geographically. Shouldn’t take 2 month to capture. You gave loyalist plenty of time to reinforce TR. the only plusher active AF performance
Peace Spring. Again, I would not consider it as success. You wasted way too much precious time at some shithole of rus al ayn allowing regime and few Russian MPs and SF to gain a lot more.
having said that what you need to think about is your military really up to the task? Don’t you think your best and the brightest are in jail while military is led by RTEs lap dogs and yes men?
@Deliorman, I think you should open a new thread about Turkish Army combat readiness post coup. I ask you because you’re more analytical and honest and never engage in meaningless discussion such as “we hate Arabs” “ Zionism” “we have 5000 years of experience in warfare” “do you know Sultan Selim”
Faith_of_the_Fallen
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The main objective of these campaigns (except for ES) is not to capture as fast as possible. ES was not carried out by regular land forces due to distrust; since it started after 1 month of the coup attempt. El Bab operation was a mess due to several reasons:
* FSA being full of amateurs left their stations and run away without notice, while giving foolish intelligence about the whereabouts of operation to ISIS. This led to surprise attacks in that foggy weather conditions, where turkish soldiers took the brunt of it with blood and fought within very close quarters against ISIS suicide attacks. Later, the operation stopped since FSA proved to be unreliable and undisciplined and additional forces have brought to the staging area.
* All ISIS operations stopped by Americans to let ISIS move additional forces to El Bab;because they didnt want Turkey to block YPG. ISIS backbone was broken there. They lost huge amounts of experienced fighters and their command structure. You will see after the fall of El Bab,remaining ISIS militants retreating to Raqqa while YPG taking over towns overnight and huge swaths of lands very fast, not much resistance. YPG basically controlled town after town for free, until ISIS resistance began with the proximity to Raqqa.
* Lets not forget Russians trying to bloody turkish forces as much as possible, restricting air force support for a while. They even did bomb Turkish soldiers at the annual day of Russian jet shooting event; Russians declared miscommunication, nobody believes this excuses with so many coincidences colliding.
* Operations are not carried out by a land force commander and its doctrine ,but organized by irregular mismashed operation forces.
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anatolia
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do you really think if anyone care about those poor sunni Arabs.. even rich arab countries are siding with Essad at this moment just becouse they dont like Turkey..i dont care if they like Turkey or Turkish but i just feel very bad for these syrian ..i live in border city and you can see syrian kids next to trash bin looking for food in the street
Well, that has more with the fact to do that the YPG had quite a big mouth with Afrin becoming Turkeys vietnam and Peace Spring would turn the whole area into a war zone and none of that happened in fact after 5 days of artillery strikes they capitulaed behind assad.
Lack of CAS because the Russian by that time closed down the airspace for Turkey with the US also not supporting Turkey. No one begged anyone- dont project that. I remember very well these tweets that Turkish operators on ground requested american airstrikes with the americans flying above the area and not striking.
Pin point artillery strikes via drones and artillery. If we would engage the same way like u did with Raqqa or mosul the operations would be obviously much faster. I havent seen 2 squadrons of f4 getting armed to teeth and turning cities to rubble, the inital operation was intense with their "outposts" getting destroyed in the first days but the urban wars took a lil longer. Reality is that these cities are not destroyed and in tact.
Its not a success because Turkey only a got a piece of the cake but the fact that it took these gluten free,vegeterian, freedom loving, battle hardened Kurds 5 days to capitulate behind assad kinda indicates that they obviously are not that what ur media likes to project onto them. Why turkey didnt do a shock and awe style is also something which we are asking ourselves, afterall they were already in the highaway after 1 day with the PKK not even knowing that.
Nope, they took the best men into the jail during the ergenekon and balyoz trials which were started from the gülen movement. That was a turning point which weakend the TSK but the purge in 2016 cleaned the army as far as I understand from the bad elemts. Afterall its the people in 2016 who´s aim was to get rid of all the true nationalists and replace them with their cult members who are anything but competent and they also succeeded with that in the Airforce and to a certain extent in the navy before the purge
How this all develeops we will see.
Wa Muhammada
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does the Pak Air Force have anything in its armoury which can help the Turks in Syria against the Russians?
HannibalBarca
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If Arab regimes were "Good" they will have started with their own ppl...do you really think if anyone care about those poor sunni Arabs.. even rich arab countries are siding with Essad at this moment just becouse they dont like Turkey..i dont care if they like Turkey or Turkish but i just feel very bad for these syrian ..i live in border city and you can see syrian kids next to trash bin looking for food in the street
That's why Some started a revo... But unfortunately... Even them were alone in their fights...
In the End, Those who help, will get their reward Inshallah... those who don't (while they could) will only have their eyes to cry.
Wa Muhammada
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Re.Russia
Why is Russia in Syria? Why are they on the forefront against Turkey? Is it oilfields/pipelines/ killing jihadis who would otherwise harm Russia/ or do they do simply want a presence/port in the Middle East to show its power?
Why is Russia in Syria? Why are they on the forefront against Turkey? Is it oilfields/pipelines/ killing jihadis who would otherwise harm Russia/ or do they do simply want a presence/port in the Middle East to show its power?
Everything u stated.
Aside from the possible political reason of using the Patriot as an excuse the tactical reason would be that S-400 with its blast fragmentation warhead is not a battle field ballistic missile interceptor, only the Patriot Pac-3 with its direct hit kinetic penetrator is any good vs the high velocity and steep angle at terminal stage of ballistic missiles.
Turkey can already implement air supperiority with their very capable Block-50 F-16s armed with AMRAAM c-7s, and SPEWS-II EWS. Turkey's problem is lack of defence against these ballistic missiles.
Water Car Engineer
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I kinda dont get either. Why they are so fierce about defending whatever interests they have so far away. Turkey I understand, this is their backyard, instability in those parts directly affects them it already has.
Whatever the case, Russian commitment and will is very impressive.
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