Turkish Naval Programs

[xxxKULxxx]

Hmm... Looks interesting...

Here is another interesting one...

 

[ANMDT]

Milgem-G (A.K.A. -L) model testing is on the way , this is sign of design phase is on the last step. We can see it on the bulding not more than 1.5 years later.

TF-2000 will be the next on the model testing,it will be 2 years later as expected , design will be finalized in 3 years and will be building right after milgem-G's.

Good news received from reliable sources

Hmm... Looks interesting...

View attachment 235356

Here is another interesting one...

View attachment 235357

I like the 2nd one if they can make it in real with sufficient rules and operatability. Instead of one attack helicopter , 2 UAV with armanement will be the best .

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

@isoo News about SM Missile type on TF-2000 ? SM 2 or SM3 ?

I Published here, our frigates in the Aegean will operate 2 UAVs and 1 UAV onboard in the Black Sea.
A Helo for Sat boats seems unrealistic,

First time seen against Greek

Cumhuriyet Gazetesi - (Fotoğraf) Ege'de gergin anlar: Radara yakalanmadan geldi

 

[BordoEnes]

Milgem-G (A.K.A. -L) model testing is on the way , this is sign of design phase is on the last step. We can see it on the bulding not more than 1.5 years later.

TF-2000 will be the next on the model testing,it will be 2 years later as expected , design will be finalized in 3 years and will be building right after milgem-G's.

Good news received from reliable sources


I like the 2nd one if they can make it in real with sufficient rules and operatability. Instead of one attack helicopter , 2 UAV with armanement will be the best .

Great news indeed. I am really curious how the TF-2000 development will go. Will we go for the SM-2/3 or an domestic solution. Do you have any information on this?

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

I hope so, 2020 NATO will finish SM3 umbrella in Europe, land based SM3 s will be installed 2018 in Poland followed by Romania; we already host the Radar in Kürecik.

Plan

The European Phased Adaptive Approach at a Glance | Arms Control Association

delayed ? :


MDA - Aegis Ashore

Turkey’s state-owned Havelsan has been participating in the U.S. Aegis
program, designed to intercept ballistic missiles from the sea. Havelsan has
contributed naval combat management capabilities to enhance Aegis, led by
Lockheed Martin.

 

[ANMDT]

Great news indeed. I am really curious how the TF-2000 development will go. Will we go for the SM-2/3 or an domestic solution. Do you have any information on this?

The person i have contacted wasnt related to weapon systems design , only took place in construction ,and overally progress. What i have heard it 1st ship will be in production around 3 years later. ( the exact information i got is about model testings which include hydrodynamic testings , sonar , seakeeping , aerodynamics ,these testings are usually one step before than finalization)
If i get news regard missile defence issue, i ll update in here

@isoo News about SM Missile type on TF-2000 ? SM 2 or SM3 ?

I Published here, our frigates in the Aegean will operate 2 UAVs and 1 UAV onboard in the Black Sea.
A Helo for Sat boats seems unrealistic,

Saying unrealistic is not based on anything , the ship is realistic if they bring it to operation level. It is 46-50 meters an helo deck might be usefull for many purposes to launch /retrieve UAVs ,operating Utility helicopter. ( they just illustrate the capacity of deck)

i also hope SM3 , a local one wont be ready on a right time for integration for TF-2000 ,expected for later.

 

[Neptune]

TF2000s AAW system will be formed in a national air defense command to be founded in future, which I can say will be like Turkey's NORAD. Merging all air defense platforms, radars into one single integrated command system. I believe US will give green light to SM-3 only if we accept to integrate TF2000s fully into NATO's BMD, which means that we won't have it fully independent. It'll have geographical limits of deployment. And being the eastern anchor of the alliance, it might even cross with DZKKs deployment plans which will decrease mobility with what we call as political obstacles.

Of course whatever will be installed on the ship, they'll integrate it on NBMD but what matters is at which cost? Accepting AEGIS or something else?

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

I said "unrealistic" cause landing on such small platforms is not easy and I guess only possible in calm weather conditions. Ok an multipurpose deck is acceptable.
What about use of SM3s on Japanese Kongos, are there limitations or restrictions ?

 

[Neptune]

I said "unrealistic" cause landing on such small platforms is not easy and I guess only possible in calm weather conditions. Ok an multipurpose deck is acceptable.
What about use of SM3s on Japanese Kongos, are there limitations or restrictions ?

Maybe for army but it's not hard for a naval aviator. That's the environment they are trained for. A deck on such a platform is to increase the endurance of the ship and providing air support capability for SAT/SAS/VBSS operations. Since the flight deck doesn't accommodate hangar; high mobility with air support is the answer to Navy's needs at Aegean Sea. And a new trend in naval warfare.

Is Japan located on Europe or did they assure that Japan was gonna integrate itself into NBMD?

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

@Neptune . Bro, you are right, new trend s Need new Solutions.
But I have heard from participating SAT s the true Story of KARDAK. It was all other than a big victory. And despite some sources say we downed the Greek S-70 (ECM/EW), they said it downed cause of heavy weather conditions.

No but Japs are part of US BMDS . US bases in Japan, Philippines, S.Korea and Diego Garcia are still active and a threat against China and others

Why China Fears THAAD | RealClearDefense

 

[Neptune]

@Neptune . Bro, you are right, new trend s Need new Solutions.
But I have heard from participating SAT s the true Story of KARDAK. It was all other than a big victory. And despite some sources say we downed the Greek S-70 (ECM/EW), they said it downed cause of heavy weather conditions.

No but Japs are part of US BMDS . US bases in Japan, Philippines, S.Korea and Diego Garcia are still active and a threat against China and others

Why China Fears THAAD | RealClearDefense

It's true that it was a victory. But like you said, even the operators went to market themselves and asked the shopkeeper to prepare them meal stores so that they wouldn't be hungry when they landed on Kardak. It is a disaster yes. As for the chopper the official release is the cause of the accident was AWC but whoever I talked didn't agree nor disagreed with that.

As you said, US NMD. They are bordered with North Korea and China who are topping the list of conventional threats to US military. I am talking about NATO's plan to defend European skies with US hands, missiles. They are different but linked together.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

@Neptune You will for sure accept that we don't speak about evidence and names. Even the fuel for some SAT boat engines was bought with private credit cards, waiting for many hours under heavy rain, that a command from HQ came in. That was all not brilliant. I tend to say that luck was on the side of the brave. I never underestimate Greek Navy and Airforce, they are indeed good.

I don't trust in NATO . The solidarity is to weak. The Patriots at the Syrian boarder are not enough. I would have expected more. Please compare how active they are in the Baltics.
THAADS is primarily for the defence of the USA. Europe builds up MEADS, not comparable but enough.

 

[Neptune]

@Neptune You will for sure accept that we don't speak about evidence and names. Even the fuel for some SAT boat engines was bought with private credit cards, waiting for many hours under heavy rain, that a command from HQ came in. That was all not brilliant. I tend to say that luck was on the side of the brave. I never underestimate Greek Navy and Airforce, they are indeed good.

I don't trust in NATO . The solidarity is to weak. The Patriots at the Syrian boarder are not enough. I would have expected more. Please compare how active they are in the Baltics.
THAADS is primarily for the defence of the USA. Europe builds up MEADS, not comparable but enough.

Of course... It even makes it worse when these were revealed in response to TAF's disloyalty to comradeship. It is the highest value that a man can hold if you ask me.

I don't trust on NATO either but I do rely on them. They offered us to but MEADS, S-300VM, PAC-3. Surely we can afford to pay for a system that entirely covers our ADIZ. But then as you know it'd be giving our fate to the hands of foreigners. I believe it's all about how politically powerful you are and the leverages you hold. For us military might and independence is just a matter of time. But policy, we need good leadership and unity, the dream of every sane citizen of this country.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

I wouldn't have discussed about it, when it would not had been published even with names. My talk was with friends and I was suprised when I read about it detailed and later in newspapers. Have a good night

 

[ANMDT]

I said "unrealistic" cause landing on such small platforms is not easy and I guess only possible in calm weather conditions. Ok an multipurpose deck is acceptable.
What about use of SM3s on Japanese Kongos, are there limitations or restrictions ?

About landing issue, i will show you a typical graph which is related to motion of ship in the wavy condition. High state doesnt only refers to high waves, its also considered by wind strength. As an additional detail, its wind which forms the waves .

I even posted a model of milgem,which takes the part above the waterline as reference. That was totally referred to observation of airflow on landing deck. Because of that shape of supper structure , the vortices appears frequent in the landing deck , so caotic flow should be considered very well. Also there are catcher systems for the helos, they dont only rely on the pilots also to the aviators on the deck . Also an experienced pilot can sense the continous movement of the platform while landing.

As last matter, the ship is quite short for necessity of attack helo. Some months ago i implied on trend in the world toward smaller vessels ,due to their lower cost of operation and flexibility in the systems. The best example is the black swan of the UK ,among their global destroyer they still have a project going on for a smaller ship which is flexible in design with a large helo deck. In my opinion , a 70-80 meter design ( even 60) with helo deck and flexible payload will be beneficial for us. Eventhough our strategy consultant officers prepare report in this way ,due to conservative behavour in Navy , the projects are not considered .( also political reasons by the state )

For example, milgem begin with multi purpose/modular design purpose, i still strongly believe that there are alternative payload scenarios which is not revelaed yet . Because the design which i showed before last december,was a design from 1998 with even a VLS ,in 80 meters length. While its evaluating into the current milgem other payloads are also considered and design is prepared.

Milgem project wasnt a step project for pathway to frigates, it was what foreseen in the future and we still can see our predict was quite accurate about the trend in the world. If we desired to begin from frigate, we could.