Turkish Naval Programs

[LegionnairE]

I don't have any information about Type-23s, but I am guessing that this may not be fake news. Like the majority, I believe that such a purchase or grant is not necessary. On the other hand, as you know, we have seen similar initiatives in the past. I won't go back further up to the purchase of Aviso's, but two examples of recent negotiations that have been going on seriously and have somehow didnt come to fruition are the statements of our interest for HMS OCEAN in the British parlement (later, this ship sold to Brazil) around 2020 and the negotiations on the transfer of 2 OHP frigates in the US congress in the 2010s.

The Turkish navy is feeling pressure to expand in order to move in parallel with interests. In 2023 alone, we will commission 1 frigate, 1 patrol corvette, 1 submarine, 1 fast combat support ship and 1 Lhd, but even this pace is not enough, because in order to reach this level of indigenization, and maybe due to some political decision errors, we could not launch significant size platforms than corvettes or support roles in the main platforms of the navy for almost 20 years.

I have the same prediction as you about AW101s. At least 2 or 3 of them are likely to have AEW configuration. It is a really capable platform and I hope there will be an opportunity to buy it under favorable conditions.

We're still paying for the mistake of cancelling he Ada class tender. RMK Marine was going to build 4 more and now we would be in a much better spot

I have no doubt that a few Type 23s will be useful in filling that hole. I expect 4 or 6. The question is subsystems. Which ones will be kept? which ones will be replaced? Anmdt. probably has some ideas but I'm never going back there. Admins are piece of shits. Anyway I hope the Burak class can finally retire and rest in peace. And I'm very curious to see Turkish Navy's experience with Type 23s' modernised CODLAG drive.

About HMS Ocean. I really wanted an American Wasp class actually. It's about twice the size of Juan Carlos. It would be much easier to take off and land.

Nowadays I'm seeing the LHD concept as a mistake. We should have built a dedicated aircraft carrier with a catapult, and we should have built a seperate LPD for landing operations. Mixing the two isn't really wise.

 

[dBSPL]

Nowadays I'm seeing the LHD concept as a mistake. We should have built a dedicated aircraft carrier with a catapult, and we should have built a seperate LPD for landing operations. Mixing the two isn't really wise.

We started out with the aim of acquiring LPDs, and now even our muhalif side are advocating for a full-scale aircraft carrier. Could it be proof of the correctness of the phenomenon of Turkish type project development?

Joking aside, I believe that our current industrial capabilities make it possible to build a full-scale aircraft carrier, but the operational cost and the creation of the task force to accompany this ship will be issues that we need to discuss in detail. Also, the critical thing in this regard is the flying platforms that will be deployed on that ship. Turkiye cannot buy aircraft from any manufacturer in the world 'for deployment on an aircraft carrier'. LHDs have a straight and single flight line, that is, ships with limited sortie capacity. But what you are talking about is a capability far above that. Therefore, we need to reach that level with our own efforts.

 

[LegionnairE]

We started out with the aim of acquiring LPDs, and now even our muhalif side are advocating for a full-scale aircraft carrier. Could it be proof of the correctness of the phenomenon of Turkish type project development?

Joking aside, I believe that our current industrial capabilities make it possible to build a full-scale aircraft carrier, but the operational cost and the creation of the task force to accompany this ship will be issues that we need to discuss in detail. Also, the critical thing in this regard is the flying platforms that will be deployed on that ship. Turkiye cannot buy aircraft from any manufacturer in the world 'for deployment on an aircraft carrier'.

No, I'm not advocating for an aircraft carrier. But if we must, it should be a dedicated carrier.

LHDs need to operate close to shores. For example if I'm conducting landing operations in Crete, I'm in a very high risk area. If I get hit, I'm also losing 1-2 billion dollars of jet fighters. I don't want that.

Aircraft carriers need to operate away from danger while LHDs sometimes need to sail right into danger.

That's why I was against F35Bs. I always wanted TCG Anadolu to carry helicopters and drones only.



A Ship that tries to be an aircraft carrier and a landing ship at the same time, will be bad at both.

 

[MMM-E]

NO NO NO

and I dont belief this news

why Type 23 when they have I-Class
why Typhoon when they have TFX
why C130J when they have A400

TYPE-23 Frigate

4 ISTIF class Frigates between 2023 and 2027 and will be busy to protect Turkish EEZ in the Eastern mediterranean .... ( Greece buys 3+1 BELHARRA Frigates ) .. Egypt is another issue


on the other hand TCG ANADOLU Amphibious Assault Ship enter service in 2023
3 modernized Type-23 Frigates could be ready in 2025 to escort TCG ANADOLU for Libya , Qatar , Somalia


-- Type-23 Frigate has 2 x more range and endurance than ISTIF Frigate
-- Type-23 Frigate has 2087 Sonar is excellent anti-Submarine capability
-- Type-23 Frigate has 32 cells VLS , İf The UK allow Turkiye to use HISAR-RF and SIPER Air Defense Missiles

if technically possible
100-150 km SIPER block1/2 missiles can play big role for advanced air defence


stop-gap solution until 3 TF-2000 Destroyers around 2033



EUROFIGHTER


Eurofighter Jets are being discussed as Turkiye faces procurement hurdles in the US for 40 new F-16 block70

even Turkiye can buy both F-16 block70 and Eurofighter

Turkiye wants 2 squadrons of Eurofighters
even , if 2nd hand Eurofighter trance 1
The UK and Turkiye can modernize Trance 1 to Trance 3 standard to carry METEOR air to air missile

2 squadrons of Eurofighters with METEOR air to air missiles can be good stop-gap solution until the TFX squadrons around 2033-2035



C-130J

TURAF has only 10 A400M

We currently use 19 C-130 fleet which modernized by TAI ( ERCIYES modernization ) to use until 2040



Turkiye can take and modernize 13 British C-130J Cargo planes to replace 14 old Transall C-160s

Turkiye needs more Cargo planes
( Turkish military bases in Libya,Azerbaijan,Qatar,Somalia )

 

[Akritas]

The expression of interest in the Type-23 frigates shows the inability of the Turkish side to carry out its own programs. Obviously there are problems, because the acquisition of a frigate, which has nothing in common with the existing ones or even the future ones, portends a panic.
A serious disadvantage of the Type-23 is that it does not incorporate a CIWS, conventional (e.g. Phalanx) or RAM.
Τhe ships are also overworked, special paint is now required since the previous ones created many problems, and a cost of at least 150 million euros is required to make them operational again.

 

[MMM-E]

The expression of interest in the Type-23 frigates shows the inability of the Turkish side to carry out its own programs. Obviously there are problems, because the acquisition of a frigate, which has nothing in common with the existing ones or even the future ones, portends a panic.

According to your scenario

Reality
First ISTIF Frigate delivery to the Turkish Navy in 2023
3 ISTIF Frigates will be produced at the same time by ANADOLU , SEDEF and SEFINE Shipyards to be delivered until 2027

2 HISAR class OPVs are under construction

3 Type-23 Frigates may stop-gap solution until 3 TF-2000 Destroyers around 2033

A serious disadvantage of the Type-23 is that it does not incorporate a CIWS, conventional (e.g. Phalanx) or RAM.

If Turkiye take Type-23 Frigates ,,
Turkiye will modernize 3 Type-23 Frigates in 18 months

-- ADVENT Combat Management System
-- MKE 76 mm naval Gun
-- 20 or 35 mm CIWS
and many more

Τhe ships are also overworked, special paint is now required since the previous ones created many problems, and a cost of at least 150 million euros is required to make them operational again.

Turkiye can buy and modernize 3 Type-23 Frigates for total of $250 million to be ready to escort TCG ANADOLU in 2025

 

[Akritas]

According to your scenario


First ISTIF Frigate delivery to the Turkish Navy in 2023
3 ISTIF Frigates will be produced at the same time by ANADOLU , SEDEF and SEFINE Shipyards to be delivered until 2027

2 HISAR class OPVs are under construction

3 Type-23 Frigates stop-gap solution until 3 TF-2000 Destroyers around 2033




If Turkiye take Type-23 Frigates ,,
Turkiye will modernize 3 Type-23 Frigates in 18 months

-- ADVENT Combat Management System
-- MKE 76 mm naval Gun
-- 20 or 35 mm CIWS
and many more

Turkiye can buy and modernize 3 Type-23 Frigates for total of $250 million to be ready to escort TCG ANADOLU in 2025

$250 million is not big money

In order to answer you, you must first clarify which ships the Turkish navy will withdraw to put the British ones into service.
Also, Type 23s are not suitable for escorting landing parties or aircraft carriers, they are general purpose ships for the open seas, which is why they do notincorporate CIWS, Phalanx or RAM.

 

[Foinikas]

TYPE-23 Frigate

4 ISTIF class Frigates between 2023 and 2027 and will be busy to protect Turkish EEZ in the Eastern mediterranean .... ( Greece buys 3+1 BELHARRA Frigates ) .. Egypt is another issue


on the other hand TCG ANADOLU Amphibious Assault Ship enter service in 2023
3 modernized Type-23 Frigates could be ready in 2025 to escort TCG ANADOLU for Libya , Qatar , Somalia


-- Type-23 Frigate has 2 x more range and endurance than ISTIF Frigate
-- Type-23 Frigate has 2087 Sonar is excellent anti-Submarine capability
-- Type-23 Frigate has 32 cells VLS , İf The UK allow Turkiye to use HISAR-RF and SIPER Air Defense Missiles

if technically possible
100-150 km SIPER block1/2 missiles can play big role for advanced air defence


stop-gap solution until 3 TF-2000 Destroyers around 2033

Then you nag about me replying to your posts...

Again,you're full of contradictions. Why? Because for at least the time that I've been on the forum,you've been doing nothing but bragging about how easily Turkey can destroy the Hellenic and Egyptian navies (even combined) and not to mention the French Navy as well.

Now you're setting that narrative back a little bit,to fit the Type 23 in. For months and months you've been talking big about how amazing the Turkish Navy,UAVs,artillery and missiles are........and now you go like "We need Type 23 as stop gap".

Suddenly you need the excellent anti-submarine capability,when you've been constantly mentioning how many ASW helicopters and aircraft Turkey has,suddenly you need more ships although you've been telling everyone here about how ISTIF is already reality (even though I kept pointing at you that the first ship is not even in active service)....

I mean,come on. One one hand "Nobody can defeat regional superpower Turkiye" and on the other hand "stop-gap solution". In the end,according to you,Turkey needs stop-gap solutions for the Air Force,for the Navy,for the Army.

You can't buy Eurofighters (which are among the most expensive jet fighters to maintain),introduce them to your Air Force and then say "oh it's a stop gap solution for 5-6 years". Yala,come on. It's ridiculous.

 

[MMM-E]

Again,you're full of contradictions. Why? Because for at least the time that I've been on the forum,you've been doing nothing but bragging about how easily Turkey can destroy the Hellenic and Egyptian navies (even combined) and not to mention the French Navy as well.

Now you're setting that narrative back a little bit,to fit the Type 23 in. For months and months you've been talking big about how amazing the Turkish Navy,UAVs,artillery and missiles are........and now you go like "We need Type 23 as stop gap".

silly troll came again to terrorize thread

I am talking about 3 Type-23 Frigates to escort TCG ANADOLU for Libya , Qatar , Somalia
nothing to do with Greece

Suddenly you need the excellent anti-submarine capability,when you've been constantly mentioning how many ASW helicopters and aircraft Turkey has,suddenly you need more ships although you've been telling everyone here about how ISTIF is already reality (even though I kept pointing at you that the first ship is not even in active service)....

ASW Aircrafts can not escort TCG ANADOLU for Libya ( fow weeks-for months )
ignorant troll

and Turkish Navy has 4 modernized GABYA and 4 MEKO-200 Frigates with ASW capability

also 4 ADA class are anti-Submarine Warfare Corvettes

 

[Foinikas]

I am talking about 3 Type-23 Frigates to escort TCG ANADOLU for Libya , Qatar , Somalia
nothing to do with Greece

Akritas just told you the class was not built for escort missions

ASW Aircrafts can not escort TCG ANADOLU for Libya ( fow weeks-for months )
ignorant troll

ASW helicopters (of which you brag you have so many) can though,after all...it's a helicopter/drone carrier.
Stop making yourself look stupid by calling others ignorant and ending up being the ignorant one.

and Turkish Navy has 4 modernized GABYA and 4 MEKO-200 Frigates with ASW capability

also 4 ADA class are anti-Submarine Warfare Corvettes

And yet again you contradict yourself. If you have all that,then why do you need Type 23s?

 

[MMM-E]

You can't buy Eurofighters (which are among the most expensive jet fighters to maintain),introduce them to your Air Force and then say "oh it's a stop gap solution for 5-6 years". Yala,come on. It's ridiculous.

If you are talking about money , Money is not problem
Turkiye planned to buy and operate even 100 F-35A

Turkiye spent even $100 billion dollars for humanitarian aid in the last 13 years

not money but our national security and interests are important

Turkiye could modernize entire Turkish Airforce instead of spending $50 billion for 3,6 million Syrian refugees

 

[LegionnairE]

The expression of interest in the Type-23 frigates shows the inability of the Turkish side to carry out its own programs. Obviously there are problems, because the acquisition of a frigate, which has nothing in common with the existing ones or even the future ones, portends a panic.
A serious disadvantage of the Type-23 is that it does not incorporate a CIWS, conventional (e.g. Phalanx) or RAM.
Τhe ships are also overworked, special paint is now required since the previous ones created many problems, and a cost of at least 150 million euros is required to make them operational again.

You're reading this wrong.

Turkey went shopping for TFX engines and a bunch of other things got offered, we're evaluating them.


Turkey is also aiming for numerical & tonnage superiority so there's a little bit of "more ships = better" philosophy going on I think


With F35 now off the table, EF is the only reallistic option.

 

[MMM-E]

ASW helicopters (of which you brag you have so many) can though,after all...it's a helicopter/drone carrier.
Stop making yourself look stupid by calling others ignorant and ending up being the ignorant one.

stupid troll .. dont jump from topic to another topic

Type23 or another Frigates will also carry ASW Helicopters

I was talking about 12 ASW Planes ( CN-235 and ATR-72 ) which are more than Hellenic+Egyptian Navies combined

 

[Foinikas]

If you are talking about money , Money is not problem
Turkiye planned to buy and operate even 100 F-35A

Turkiye spent even $100 billion dollars for humanitarian aid in the last 13 years

You hear that @LegionnairE ? Money is not the problem.

 

[LegionnairE]

View attachment 912509


You hear that @LegionnairE ? Money is not the problem.

I have to agree. We lose much more money to corruption than what Eurofighters could cost

Our beloved president is living in a billion $ palace with gold clad furniture. They better not come to me and say we don't have money.