Turkish Missile Programs

[Baykuş]

mass and weight are two different things. I believe air has the same mass regardless of it's temperature. And I'm having trouble believing that pod is full of hot air.

What I really meant was that the cubic-looking pod might be pretty hollow, thus not as heavy as one might think judging by the size of it.

I disagree with you strongly Baykuş, M197 20mm on T129 is already VERY accurate. More accurate than the chaingun on Apache. And I've seen in videos Turkish cobra pilots unload their rocket pods on terrorists aggressively. And T129 isn't as armored as Apache, the enemy doesn't need a ZSU-23, a DShK can easily ruin your day. Threats are very real, you need every bit of that suppressive fire. A hydra rocket may fall a couple of meters off your target but any sane person will run for his life.

I get your point, brother. But now with guided missiles, our AH:s might take out targets from further away without having to put themselves into the danger-zone, yet they can put those missiles right on the targets instead of spray-and-praying with unguided rockets or without having to get close enough to use the cannon. Thus, my point is that they won't need as many missiles as rockets to be able to take targets out. If they used to need 4 unguided rockets (which I argue is hard to put right on targets) to take a target or a group of closely stacked targets out before, it will now suffice with a single well-placed missile that also carries a heavier warhead. Sure, it would be awesome if a pod could be loaded with 48 Cirit-missiles, but the question is if the use for them outweighs the extra weight added to the helicopter.

By gay I meant useless.

Well, sorry if I misunderstood you then. But we don't know if it's useless or not. It probably has a purpose - that's what I like to believe at least.

 

[Bismarck]

Mate, you have much more knowledge than me...... and i feel like, you are joking with me.... ?

One is guided other one is unguided. Cirit is able to hit a truck that is crusing at 70 km/h while helicopter is it self have a speed of 220km/h... how are you going to do the same thing with 1 hydra rocket, it is almost impossible. Using ATGMs for that purpose is too costly and unguided missiles are ineffective in engaging. Why are you making me tell all of this you already know this stuff.

I think you are right. For example. If you need 3 unguided missile to destroy a target,but a guided missile need only one shot and we want to assume by this, so we need only 1/3 of missile for that mission. Of course, you can get more guided missile, if you want.

 

[LegionnairE]

Mate, you have much more knowledge than me...... and i feel like, you are joking with me.... ?

It's because you don't understand my point All I'm saying is that cirit can take over hydra's role completely. If they can make a rocket pod that can contain 19 cirits, cirit can be just as suppressive as the unguided hydra.

and it's 1950s technology, why aren't they making it?

What I really meant was that the cubic-looking pod might be pretty hollow, thus not as heavy as one might think judging by the size of it.

Still, why bigger? Aerodynamics stopped being a concern all of a sudden?

Didn't these small thingies work?

 

[T-123456]

I heard something interesting,could it be that Ukraine is going to help us with the T-LORAMIDS?
Maybe thats why we are going for indigenous instead of the Chinese FD-2000?
What do you guys think about that?

 

[Hakan]

I heard something interesting,could it be that Ukraine is going to help us with the T-LORAMIDS?
Maybe thats why we are going for indigenous instead of the Chinese FD-2000?
What do you guys think about that?

That is actually very realistic. Ukraine has alot of technology in this field.

 

[Baykuş]

It's because you don't understand my point All I'm saying is that cirit can take over hydra's role completely. If they can make a rocket pod that can contain 19 cirits, cirit can be just as suppressive as the unguided hydra.

Not really. Think of the price-difference between a guided missile versus a unguided rocket - not quite the same price class. Besides, why would you want to suppress the enemy using a precise, guided missile that could be used to take the enemy out completely, as in killing them, instead?

Still, why bigger? Aerodynamics stopped being a concern all of a sudden?

Good point - no idea, tbh. But it probably has a explanation - I wouldn't think that the guys over at Roketsan's facilities chose to design a bulky pod like that for no particular reason.

 

[LegionnairE]

Not really. Think of the price-difference between a guided missile versus a unguided rocket - not quite the same price class. Besides, why would you want to suppress the enemy using a precise, guided missile that could be used to take the enemy out completely, as in killing them, instead?

Well, killing is a good method of suppression... better than missing actually

If you could unload all 19 rockets on target, it would make much more difference on the battle. But guided or unguided I will always pick 19 over 4

 

[cabatli_53]

This is the story of the way of Turkish domestic Long range Air/Missile Defence (Hisar-Y) system development. Aselsan is struggling/pressuring Government to commence a fully national LORAMIDS during last 1-2 years. The roadway is what the source are emphasized as ordering a few Pac batteries as a quick solution While waiting development of Hisar-Y.

Remember Aselsan struggled government to commence domestic Low(Hisar-A) and Medium(Hisar-O) altitude SAM's in past and It leads them to cancel of two direct order project worth billion $. With this way, We are proudly talking about development steps of own national SAM projects. Hope Aselsan get another victory against them to commence Hisar-Y which is going to be ready for firing national proud indigenous long range missiles up to 8 years from commencement time in accordance with feasibility report prepared by Aselsan.

As a period of quiet is ahead of Turkey’s controversial air defense program after the departure of Murad Bayar, the country’s top defense procurement official, new options have emerged outside Ankara’s September 2013 decision to select a Chinese contender.

Procurement officials said one option involved going for an entirely indigenous solution to be designed and developed by military electronics specialist Aselsan, Turkey’s biggest defense company.

“The company is meticulously weighing the merits and demerits of local production,” one senior official said. “At this moment we do not know whether this is a technically and financially feasible. But we cannot rule that out.”

An Aselsan official confirmed the company is working to assess an indigenous solution for what would become Turkey’s first long-range air and anti-missile defense system. “We have [technologically] progressed remarkably over the past few years. We think that the work here may not be beyond our engineering capabilities.” But some defense industry sources say the work may be beyond Aselsan’s capabilities and take too long to finish. “No doubt, Aselsan’s recent work is impressive. But this program may be a little bit too tough. I fear the work may take much longer than planned, and prove to be very expensive if done locally,” said one London-based Turkey specialist.

Aselsan thinks it can deliver the system, dubbed T-LORAMIDS, in about eight years.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/new...&NewsCatID=483

 

[Kamil_baku]

Why Hydra 70 laucher can be loaded with 19 missiles and why cirit launchers can be loaded with only 4 ? They are both 2,75" ... Cirit is about 80 cm longer... Cirit is 15 kg however Hydra 70 is 6 kg... Maybe not 19-20 but Cirit laucher can be loaded more then 4 in the future... IMO...

I think these launchers could be designed for UAV to keep it Stealth. Also, just recently it was mentioned that baykar taktic UAV will use these launchers.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Well, killing is a good method of suppression... better than missing actually

If you could unload all 19 rockets on target, it would make much more difference on the battle. But guided or unguided I will always pick 19 over 4

But think of it in a different way. Imagine that armored wehicles coming and soldiers next to them. You cant just hit armored vehicles, you have to be able to hit everybody in the field with cheaper price. We cant just target a soldier with cirit.

 

[LegionnairE]

But think of it in a different way. Imagine that armored wehicles coming and soldiers next to them. You cant just hit armored vehicles, you have to be able to hit everybody in the field with cheaper price. We cant just target a soldier with cirit.

We have a saying in Turkey "tereciye tere satmak" You're doing that.

Cirit is a versatile, multi purpose weapon. You can do everything you've done with hydra, with greater accuracy, easier. With hydra you had to tilt the helicopter to aim, now you can engage targets regardless of the angle of the helicopter.

I think it has to replace hydra. And needs a multilaunching rocket pod that can take 19 cirits to replace hydra.

BECAUSE I KNOW
That T129 can't carry 4 of these under it's pylons. Simply too heavy

Four cirits + pod will always weigh more than a Hellfire, definitely more than a Mızrak-U.
Regardless of how light the pod is.

and T129 can't handle the weight of 16 Mızrak-Us, forget about Hellfire or JAGM

 

[Hakan]

needs a multilaunching rocket pod that can take 19 cirits to replace hydra.

I really dont understand why this is not possible. You build a tank, you build UAV's, and other stuff but you cant build an effective rocket pod.

 

[LegionnairE]

I really dont understand why this is not possible. You build a tank, you build UAV's, and other stuff but you cant build an effective rocket pod.

That's why I'm so pissed off

 

[-------]

....

BECAUSE I KNOW
That T129 can't carry 4 of these under it's pylons. Simply too heavy
{image}

Four cirits + pod will always weigh more than a Hellfire, definitely more than a Mızrak-U.
Regardless of how light the pod is.

and T129 can't handle the weight of 16 Mızrak-Us, forget about Hellfire or JAGM

1200kg payload capacity for each wing, I'm certain weight would not be an issue.

 

[LegionnairE]

1200kg payload capacity for each wing, I'm certain weight would not be an issue.

I don't know, last time we calculated it wasn't enough for 16 UMTAS missiles... My memory might be off but it defninitely wasn't enough fore 16 Hellfires.

May I ask where did the TAI declare "1200kg payload capacity for each wing" ?