Turkish Minister of National Defense Yaşar Güler: We are considering purchasing 40 Eurofighter Typhoons

[ChineseTiger1986]

The plan to supply engines from China does not make sense to me.

The two-faced US could sanction you anytime, but China won't.

 

[Hold the door]

The two-faced US could sanction you anytime, but China won't.

This will be a very important choice for us. will have long-term effects

 

[MMM-E]

The plan to supply engines from China does not make sense to me.

Why ?

purchase Fighter Jet from China poses challenges
but to supply Engine will not be problem
Turkiye can work with China via Pakistan

USA will give GE-F110-129 Engines to Turkiye for max 20 KAANs
what we gonna do later ?

Turkiye needs minimum 15 years to develop its own engine and brings it to a sufficient level and produce squadrons of KAANs with Turkish Engine

Turkiye can produce KAAN special edition with Chinese engine for effective stopgap solution for the Turkish Air Force and export possibility to Pakistan


if NO F-16V
if NO Eurofighter
if NO more GE-F110-129 Engines

then only 20 KAAN until 2029
and 200 OZGUR modernized F-16s until 2030
also TF-10.000 Engine for KIZILELMA in 2030


If we can not purchase Fighter Jets from NATO

Then Turkiye should focus on Air Defense Systems such as 250+ km SIPER Block2 with booster to work with E7-T AEWC to counter hostile Fighter Jets in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean

In the next 5 years, the USA, France, Greece, Israel and even Egypt will cause great difficulties to Turkiye in the Eastern Mediterranean and Libya.

 

[Foinikas]

Vallahi it's all true..

52 percent cannot see Erdoğan's inconsistencies.

I just laugh, I have nothing to say anymore. I think he'll eventually go buy J-10. Like the S400's, it will be of no use.

I want to say that some of the best posts I've seen on this thread were by you @LegionnairE @LeGenD and @White and Green with M/S

Legend wrote a very detailed post in page 7 and you guys replied to others very very well. I loved some of your posts.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Erdogan kept calling the Westerners "imperialists" and "crusaders" and then went to Germany and talked bad about the Jewish and Kurdish community there. And he asked for Eurofighter. And they told him no.

He had been calling Hamas a resistance group to the same people who actively support Israel. Well it's common politics.

First he got S-400s. Then he asked for F-35s again and was told no. Then he said "we'll buy Su-35 and submarines from Russia". He went to Russia and got nothing. He came back and asked for F-16Vs from the Americans. He got nothing. He said "we'll make our own stuff and they will be better". He went to Germany and asked for Eurofighters and was told no.

Verbal rhetoric in politics is often acceptable. Europeans and Americans already understands it.

I could be wrong but i think if you replace Erdogan with any XYZ, the treatment of EU & US will be more or less same towards Turkey.

Why ?

purchase Fighter Jet from China poses challenges
but to supply Engine will not be problem
Turkiye can work with China via Pakistan

USA will give GE-F110-129 Engines to Turkiye for max 20 KAANs
what we gonna do later ?

Turkiye needs minimum 15 years to develop its own engine and brings it to a sufficient level and produce squadrons of KAANs with Turkish Engine

Turkiye can produce KAAN special edition with Chinese engine for effective stopgap solution for the Turkish Air Force and export possibility to Pakistan


if NO F-16V
if NO Eurofighter
if NO more GE-F110-129 Engines

then only 20 KAAN until 2029
and 200 OZGUR modernized F-16s until 2030
also TF-10.000 Engine for KIZILELMA in 2030


If we can not purchase Fighter Jets from NATO

Then Turkiye should focus on Air Defense Systems such as 250+ km SIPER Block2 with booster to work with E7-T AEWC to counter hostile Fighter Jets in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean

In the next 5 years, the USA, France, Greece, Israel and even Egypt will cause great difficulties to Turkiye in the Eastern Mediterranean and Libya.

That's true, If US says no to engines for KAAN. Its not the end of world for Turkey. China uses same thrust engines for its J-20 (twin engine) & J-10C (single engine)

If Turkey do agreement with China to manufacture these WS engines in Turkey. Turkey will immediately solve the problem for engines once and for all.

In addition, as a stop gap solution Turkey can get few squadrons of J-10Cs (powered by same engine) .

 

[LegionnairE]

Since China has already exported the WS-10B to Pakistan via the J-10C, then to export the WS-10C is not out of possibility.

We can also provide KAAN with the 2D thrust vectoring nozzle, so no need to envy the F119 engine anymore.

We won't be interested in J-10C, But we could be interested in buying that thrust vectoring technology.

That could save us some time on development.

The plan to supply engines from China does not make sense to me.

American engines last thousands of hours, Chinese engines are nowhere near that durability. It's not a problem for Pakistan because they are close neighbors with China. It would be a problem for us.


Fortunately we don't need it, we have very good relations with UK, we could partner up with Rolls Royce instead. EJ-200 series are small in diameter but they offer some of the highest power to weight ratios in the world. Really good engines.

 

[Yawm al-qiyāma]

I know ofcourse I know.. But everytime we go and ask for a weapon system we look weak as f**
posts made by the Greek and Armenian lobbies on Twitter with the hashtag "nojetsforturkey" etc. It's so tiring to deal with these..

We dont beg for jets we want to buy it with our own money. There is a difference no need to feel ashamed

 

[LegionnairE]

We dont beg for jets we want to buy it with our own money. There is a difference no need to feel ashamed

If they say no, and you keep asking, it's called begging.

 

[sami_1]

Why ?

purchase Fighter Jet from China poses challenges
but to supply Engine will not be problem
Turkiye can work with China via Pakistan

USA will give GE-F110-129 Engines to Turkiye for max 20 KAANs
what we gonna do later ?

Turkiye needs minimum 15 years to develop its own engine and brings it to a sufficient level and produce squadrons of KAANs with Turkish Engine

Turkiye can produce KAAN special edition with Chinese engine for effective stopgap solution for the Turkish Air Force and export possibility to Pakistan


if NO F-16V
if NO Eurofighter
if NO more GE-F110-129 Engines

then only 20 KAAN until 2029
and 200 OZGUR modernized F-16s until 2030
also TF-10.000 Engine for KIZILELMA in 2030


If we can not purchase Fighter Jets from NATO

Then Turkiye should focus on Air Defense Systems such as 250+ km SIPER Block2 with booster to work with E7-T AEWC to counter hostile Fighter Jets in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean

In the next 5 years, the USA, France, Greece, Israel and even Egypt will cause great difficulties to Turkiye in the Eastern Mediterranean and Libya.

Things don't go as they dream There are facts

First, the West sees Turkey’s colonial policy against Iraq, Syria, Greece, and the Eastern Mediterranean as natural for it to manipulate Turkey and not give it anything.

The Turks lost the Chinese when they yielded to the Americans in the FD-2000 air defense program. The Turks also rejected the Chinese offer to participate in the FC-31 aircraft project, as China does not trust Turkey at all.

The Turks are under the illusion of their racial superiority and technical superiority over the East, and they are superior to the countries, but the countries ignore them.


Turkey received only 10 GE-F110-129 engines from America for testing, i.e. fighter jets for testing, and did not offer to provide 40 engines, as it says.

Manufacturing engines for fighters is complex. India has been 30 years and has not succeeded in developing the KAVERI engine. It is true that the West has blocked many technologies from Turkey and has even overtaken Turkey on Western technologies and support from intermediary companies due to Turkey being a member of NATO.

The Turkish development program for the first 35 aircraft özgür The first delivery of the aircraft has at least two years to go, and the rest of the aircraft are in accordance with the desires of Europe and America. Turkey does not manufacture all the components of the development as it claims, otherwise it would have implemented it in the first place.
The Americans did not provide the GE-404 engine for the HURJET aircraft for mass production, and no contracts were signed. Simply put, the KAAN and HURJET programs could be, like the ALTAY tank program, at least 10 years behind the established plans.

Turkey, as a country, its role has become weak, as it was the promoter of Israel and Israel's defense products, and Israel turned to another direction, the Emirates, and the establishment of Israeli companies in the Emirates under the name of UAE defense companies, which makes the benefit from cooperation with the Turks low, so Turkey's role has ended for Israel, whether the Turks recognize them or economic cooperation, which Turkey cannot reduce.


The balance of power has already changed

Greece has already expanded its F-16 upgrade program and has received the first 12 aircraft so far

The Air Force will apparently modernize the F-16C/D Block 50 fighters to the F-16V Block 70 fleet level, creating a homogeneous of 121 F-16V fighters before 2030. Despite what has been written from time to time, the PA had second thoughts about upgrading Block 50 to Block 50+Adv, for too many reasons, and the delays are due to them as well.

https://flight.com.gr/exclusive-haf-to-modernise-f16-block-50-to-block-70/

Greece receives the first 24 RAFALE fighters and is approaching the completion of receiving the full batch
Greece received the first 4 M346 training aircraft equipped with AESA radar

Egypt also terminates a contract for large numbers of J-10C aircraft from China, if the contracts were not already signed last May.

Along with 54 RAFALE fighters
And the development of the MIG-29M aircraft
In other words, things have changed and the balance has been disturbed

China accepting the integration of Chinese engines into Turkish fighter projects is not easy for a country in NATO that is classified as an enemy in the end. The Russians. Any further approach from them will destroy the Turkish economy, which depends on Western tourism and Western markets.

Turkey has been pushed into a corner, and the issue of Turkey developing its drone program is faster. This is not a unique advantage for the Turks only. Any country that wants a drone development program will implement it quickly because the technology and components are easy to obtain from international sources, and competition is accelerating in UCAV programs globally, meaning there is an illusion that Turkey is superior in This field is not real, and if its impact were huge, we would find all air weapons rushing to close any gap.
Fighters remain in high demand

The problem facing the Turks

Any Turkish contracts for Chinese J-10C or FC-31 fighters will also take years to implement, because China has already received 100+ orders from Saudi Arabia, and the Egyptian request and the additional Pakistani request keep the Chinese production lines busy for a period of no less than 4 years. As for the FC-31/35 plane, it will not It will enter operational service before 2025, and therefore any deliveries to customers will not occur before 2027 or 2028.

America and Europe's rejection of the F-16 fighters and the Eurofighter Typhoon have another 4 years. The gap in the capabilities of the Turkish Air Force and Turkey's inability to extend the life of the F-4E fighters means a contraction of the Turkish Air Force.

The only solution for the Turks is to buy JF-17 aircraft from Pakistan or to buy used American F-16 aircraft. Turkey is trying to complete the özgür program through pressure on the American side.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

We won't be interested in J-10C, But we could be interested in buying that thrust vectoring technology.

That could save us some time on development.


American engines last thousands of hours, Chinese engines are nowhere near that durability. It's not a problem for Pakistan because they are close neighbors with China. It would be a problem for us.


Fortunately we don't need it, we have very good relations with UK, we could partner up with Rolls Royce instead. EJ-200 series are small in diameter but they offer some of the highest power to weight ratios in the world. Really good engines.

You are wrong man, the current Chinese engine is quite comparable to its US counterpart in term of overhaul and lifespan.

The WS-15 has surpassed the F119 in term of afterburner thrust, and close in term of overall lifespan.

In the meantime, I see no purpose for Turkiye to remain in NATO as it is becoming increasingly islamophobic.

Turkiye should withdraw from NATO, then China could help you to develop your own engine for KAAN.

 

[Yawm al-qiyāma]

If they say no, and you keep asking, it's called begging.

if you warn the seller that you will buy from somewhere else in case they dont want to sell.. thats not begging. More like warning before you buy somewhere else.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Hi,

It's not---. It won't happen---. you don't know what the **** you're talking about---. faggot---.

Well it is unfortunate you addressed a respectable member of forum such manner

However , I think Turkiye's big challenge is that most world nations would not sell F-35 to Turkey
It has nothing to do with Erdogan speech or his concern for welfare of Muslims

• The West will only see , weapons 1 generation behind to Turkey/Pakistan/Egypt

Even if Turkiye has been a great member of NATO however they are only given F16 to fight against Russia

If Russia did not exist , I am sure NATO would not even give F16 to Turkey

From Strategic point of view

• 200 F16 C/D is enough for Turkey
• If they need more items JF17-Block III is available up to 100 units, even Acquiring 50 JF-17 could solve the short term need for Turkey

• An airforce , with 200 F16C/D and 100 JF17-Block III is sufficient for next 15 years

Turkey should focus on KAAN project 100%



Short Term Solution

• 200 F16 C/D
• 100 JF17-Block III (Attainable objective)
• 40 Euro Fight (If available)
• Focus on Expanding the UAV Fleet to suppliment

Long Term

• 300 KAAN fighter Jets

 

[Yawm al-qiyāma]

Well it is unfortunate you addressed a respectable member of forum such manner

However , I think Turkiye's big challenge is that most world nations would not sell F-35 to Turkey
It has nothing to do with Erdogan speech or his concern for welfare of Muslims

• The West will only see , weapons 1 generation behind to Turkey/Pakistan/Egypt

Even if Turkiye has been a great member of NATO however they are only given F16 to fight against Russia

If Russia did not exist , I am sure NATO would not even give F16 to Turkey

From Strategic point of view

• 200 F16 C/D is enough for Turkey
• If they need more items JF17-Block III is available up to 100 units, even Acquiring 50 JF-17 could solve the short term need for Turkey

• An airforce , with 200 F16C/D and 100 JF17-Block III is sufficient for next 15 years

Turkey should focus on KAAN project 100%



Short Term Solution

• 200 F16 C/D
• 100 JF17-Block III (Attainable objective)
• 40 Euro Fight (If available)
• Focus on Expanding the UAV Fleet to suppliment

Long Term

• 300 KAAN fighter Jets

long term 5000 KAAN jets

 

[LegionnairE]

You are wrong man, the current Chinese engine is quite comparable to its US counterpart in term of overhaul and lifespan.

so far I haven't seen any evidence of that, nice if true but I doubt we'll need it.

As of yet we have no problems getting the engines we want.

Well it is unfortunate you addressed a respectable member of forum such manner

Hi,

You got a big mouth son---. You don't have a shit of a fighter aircraft to fight with and yet you are prancing around like a dance horse---.

Integrate your own better BVR missiles with it if you have one----which you don't have any and will have nothing equal to chinese BVR PL15 for maybe 1/2 a decade---.

It is amazing that you are the son of warriors that we pakistanis look upto---and here you are whimpering like a bi-tch---having no clue that you have no capable aircraft to fight with----.

no comment

long term 5000 KAAN jets

This sounds like 1000 Altay tanks by 2020, just 500 times more ridiculous

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

so far I haven't seen any evidence of that, nice if true but I doubt we'll need it.

As of yet we have no problems getting the engines we want.

Well, you can check how powerful the WS-15 is compared to the F119.

And I doubt that the US will offer you the F119.