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Turkish Land Vehicle Programs

now i dont see any massive opportunities for cooperation in this project. only thing i can think of is the fire control system that PA can use in its AK-II project. on the turkish the are already collaborating with Korea so might not be intrested in any of Al-Khalids tech. here is an article:

Turkey continues to announce new armament programs that involve the development and production of a “Turkish brand” of major weapons systems. On July 29, under a technology cooperation deal signed between Turkey and South Korea (ROK), Turkey initiated a $500 million project for the design, development and production of prototypes for its next-generation, locally manufactured main battle tank (MTB), named Altay. Four prototypes are to be produced in the next six and a half years, to be followed by an initial production of 250 tanks. Eventually, Turkey plans to replace all its MBTs, as many 1,000, which will become obsolete in the next few decades (Hurriyet, Sabah and Radikal, July 30).



In June, Turkey initiated a project for the development of a national attack helicopter in cooperation with the Italian AugustaWestland (EDM, June 27). On July 22 Turkey awarded a contract for new submarines to the German Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW). Under the $4 billion deal, HDW agreed to transfer technology and equipment for the production of six of its U-214 class submarines in Golcuk shipyard. Turkish industry’s contribution to the project will amount to 80 percent of the total value of the contract, signifying Turkey’s bargaining power (Hurriyet, July 23).



The trajectory of the MTB project is similar to that of the helicopter project. The procurement of an eventual 1,000 third-generation tanks, worth over $10 billion, first came to the agenda when Turkey began considering ambitious military modernization projects in the 1990s. The original program, which sought local production under foreign licenses, had to be shelved due to the economic crisis of 2000-2001. In the meantime, Turkey signed agreements with Israel to upgrade its aging MBT inventory, composed mainly of German Leopard and U.S. M60T tanks (Dr Andrew McGregor, "Arming for Asymmetric Warfare: Turkey’s Arms Industry in the 21st Century" Jamestown Foundation, June 19). Turkey’s attempts to revitalize the project hit a deadlock over questions about the modality of procurement, and it was suspended once again in 2004, the year when Turkey decided to overhaul its entire range of defense projects and made technology transfers and the enhancement of local contributions its blueprint for future tenders (Zaman, May 21, 2004). The Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) commissioned a report to Otokar, BMC and FNSS, the major local armored vehicle producers and the bidders in the MBT project, about the optimum means of realizing the project (Aksam, July 30, 2004). When their report confirmed the capability of Turkish industry to develop and manufacture a nationally designed tank, including systems integration work, through the provision of foreign technological assistance, Turkish authorities opted for the domestically manufactured model (Turkish Daily News, October 20, 2005). In addition to the expertise that local industry developed in armored vehicles and firing systems, the tank modernization projects carried out with Israel, one of which involved technology transfers and domestic participation, also made a substantial contribution to Turkey’s infrastructure in this field (Turkish Daily News, April 6, 2002).



The competition, announced in 2005, was open only to domestic manufacturers that were active in the production of military vehicles and had supplied the Turkish army previously; foreign producers were limited to providing technology (Ortadogu, February 10, 2006). In March 2007 the SSM decided to start negotiations with Otokar, Turkey’s largest arms exporter owned by the major business and industrial group Koc Holding, to develop, design and manufacture the next-generation of MBTs. Otokar accounts for 30 percent of Turkey’s defense exports and sells mainly armored and non-armored vehicles to more than 15 countries (Otokar). Otokar’s local subcontractors were military-owned ASELSAN, an ASELSAN-STM joint initiative, and the state-owned MKEK for the gun barrel. After extensive research, in June 2007 the SSM selected Korean Hyundai-Rotem over the German Krauss Maffei Wegmann as the foreign subcontractor for providing technology (SSM Press Brief, June 20, 2007). In what was the second largest export deal for the Korean arms industry, ROK will transfer the technology of its next-generation tank XK-2, Black Panther, and sell its training airplanes to the Turkish Air Force (Chosun Ilbo, June 22, 2007).



The July 29 ceremony for signing the $500 million contract, held at Otokar’s plant in Sakarya, was attended by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Korean Defense Minister Lee Sang-hee. Erdogan asked the contractors to complete the project earlier and stressed that by 2011 Turkey would be producing 50 percent of its military’s needs locally. Sang-hee expressed the hope that cooperation would be deepened between the “blood brothers,” a reference to Turkey’s contribution to the Korean war, in the field of high-tech defense procurement. Kudret Onen, the chairman of Otokar, the main contractor, underlined the pioneering role the company played in the defense industry and its technological infrastructure in carrying out this challenging project that will make Turkey one of the few nations to produce MBTs.



ROK will transfer technology owned by the state developer, the Agency for Defense Development, which will amount to around 50 percent of the technology required to develop the prototype. According to the Korean sources, ROK will receive $400 million in technology transfer fees, which marks a turning point for Korea’s defense programs (Korean Ministry of National Defense; Korea.net : The official website of the Republic of Korea, July 30). ASELSAN will supply the fire control systems called Volkan, and the ASELSAN-STM joint initiative command will manufacture the control and information systems, which are already developed and used in the upgraded MBTs (Aselsan.com.tr). MKEK will produce the gun barrel, which has already been developed as part of the modernization project with Israel, while Roketsan will design the modular armor. The feasibility work on the engine will continue; it might be produced under a foreign license or be developed internally. Turkey will have the full rights over the final product including export licenses. It was, however, noted by Chief of Staff Yasar Buyukanit that South Korea inserted a clause in the contract prohibiting the export of the tank to North Korea, Japan and China (Milliyet, August 1).



The recent bid shows once again that Turkey remains committed to developing its domestic defense industry through diversifying its international partners. The inability of U.S. manufacturers to compete in Turkey’s arms procurement programs due to U.S. export regulations has opened new windows of opportunity for exploring alternative suppliers, which may result in building new partnerships to lessen the dependence on the United States. In addition to increasing the firepower of the Turkish army, Turkish authorities hope that the project will help upgrade local technology as Turkish subcontractors will have to improve their quality to meet the high standards of the project. It then will generate new momentum for streamlining cooperation among companies active in the defense industry, helping Turkey emerge as a major player in the worldwide arms industry.

regards!
 
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now i dont see any massive opportunities for cooperation in this project. only thing i can think of is the fire control system that PA can use in its AK-II project. on the turkish the are already collaborating with Korea so might not be intrested in any of Al-Khalids tech. here is an article:

Turkey continues to announce new armament programs that involve the development and production of a “Turkish brand” of major weapons systems. On July 29, under a technology cooperation deal signed between Turkey and South Korea (ROK), Turkey initiated a $500 million project for the design, development and production of prototypes for its next-generation, locally manufactured main battle tank (MTB), named Altay. Four prototypes are to be produced in the next six and a half years, to be followed by an initial production of 250 tanks. Eventually, Turkey plans to replace all its MBTs, as many 1,000, which will become obsolete in the next few decades (Hurriyet, Sabah and Radikal, July 30).



In June, Turkey initiated a project for the development of a national attack helicopter in cooperation with the Italian AugustaWestland (EDM, June 27). On July 22 Turkey awarded a contract for new submarines to the German Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW). Under the $4 billion deal, HDW agreed to transfer technology and equipment for the production of six of its U-214 class submarines in Golcuk shipyard. Turkish industry’s contribution to the project will amount to 80 percent of the total value of the contract, signifying Turkey’s bargaining power (Hurriyet, July 23).



The trajectory of the MTB project is similar to that of the helicopter project. The procurement of an eventual 1,000 third-generation tanks, worth over $10 billion, first came to the agenda when Turkey began considering ambitious military modernization projects in the 1990s. The original program, which sought local production under foreign licenses, had to be shelved due to the economic crisis of 2000-2001. In the meantime, Turkey signed agreements with Israel to upgrade its aging MBT inventory, composed mainly of German Leopard and U.S. M60T tanks (Dr Andrew McGregor, "Arming for Asymmetric Warfare: Turkey’s Arms Industry in the 21st Century" Jamestown Foundation, June 19). Turkey’s attempts to revitalize the project hit a deadlock over questions about the modality of procurement, and it was suspended once again in 2004, the year when Turkey decided to overhaul its entire range of defense projects and made technology transfers and the enhancement of local contributions its blueprint for future tenders (Zaman, May 21, 2004). The Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) commissioned a report to Otokar, BMC and FNSS, the major local armored vehicle producers and the bidders in the MBT project, about the optimum means of realizing the project (Aksam, July 30, 2004). When their report confirmed the capability of Turkish industry to develop and manufacture a nationally designed tank, including systems integration work, through the provision of foreign technological assistance, Turkish authorities opted for the domestically manufactured model (Turkish Daily News, October 20, 2005). In addition to the expertise that local industry developed in armored vehicles and firing systems, the tank modernization projects carried out with Israel, one of which involved technology transfers and domestic participation, also made a substantial contribution to Turkey’s infrastructure in this field (Turkish Daily News, April 6, 2002).



The competition, announced in 2005, was open only to domestic manufacturers that were active in the production of military vehicles and had supplied the Turkish army previously; foreign producers were limited to providing technology (Ortadogu, February 10, 2006). In March 2007 the SSM decided to start negotiations with Otokar, Turkey’s largest arms exporter owned by the major business and industrial group Koc Holding, to develop, design and manufacture the next-generation of MBTs. Otokar accounts for 30 percent of Turkey’s defense exports and sells mainly armored and non-armored vehicles to more than 15 countries (Otokar). Otokar’s local subcontractors were military-owned ASELSAN, an ASELSAN-STM joint initiative, and the state-owned MKEK for the gun barrel. After extensive research, in June 2007 the SSM selected Korean Hyundai-Rotem over the German Krauss Maffei Wegmann as the foreign subcontractor for providing technology (SSM Press Brief, June 20, 2007). In what was the second largest export deal for the Korean arms industry, ROK will transfer the technology of its next-generation tank XK-2, Black Panther, and sell its training airplanes to the Turkish Air Force (Chosun Ilbo, June 22, 2007).



The July 29 ceremony for signing the $500 million contract, held at Otokar’s plant in Sakarya, was attended by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Korean Defense Minister Lee Sang-hee. Erdogan asked the contractors to complete the project earlier and stressed that by 2011 Turkey would be producing 50 percent of its military’s needs locally. Sang-hee expressed the hope that cooperation would be deepened between the “blood brothers,” a reference to Turkey’s contribution to the Korean war, in the field of high-tech defense procurement. Kudret Onen, the chairman of Otokar, the main contractor, underlined the pioneering role the company played in the defense industry and its technological infrastructure in carrying out this challenging project that will make Turkey one of the few nations to produce MBTs.



ROK will transfer technology owned by the state developer, the Agency for Defense Development, which will amount to around 50 percent of the technology required to develop the prototype. According to the Korean sources, ROK will receive $400 million in technology transfer fees, which marks a turning point for Korea’s defense programs (Korean Ministry of National Defense; Korea.net : The official website of the Republic of Korea, July 30). ASELSAN will supply the fire control systems called Volkan, and the ASELSAN-STM joint initiative command will manufacture the control and information systems, which are already developed and used in the upgraded MBTs (Aselsan.com.tr). MKEK will produce the gun barrel, which has already been developed as part of the modernization project with Israel, while Roketsan will design the modular armor. The feasibility work on the engine will continue; it might be produced under a foreign license or be developed internally. Turkey will have the full rights over the final product including export licenses. It was, however, noted by Chief of Staff Yasar Buyukanit that South Korea inserted a clause in the contract prohibiting the export of the tank to North Korea, Japan and China (Milliyet, August 1).



The recent bid shows once again that Turkey remains committed to developing its domestic defense industry through diversifying its international partners. The inability of U.S. manufacturers to compete in Turkey’s arms procurement programs due to U.S. export regulations has opened new windows of opportunity for exploring alternative suppliers, which may result in building new partnerships to lessen the dependence on the United States. In addition to increasing the firepower of the Turkish army, Turkish authorities hope that the project will help upgrade local technology as Turkish subcontractors will have to improve their quality to meet the high standards of the project. It then will generate new momentum for streamlining cooperation among companies active in the defense industry, helping Turkey emerge as a major player in the worldwide arms industry.

regards!
 
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More about FNSS Samur

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the departments of mutual intrest are perhaps air defence Systems. both countries are going well with there tanks and APCs but pakistan may look forward to some good air defence missiles and perhaps seek for technology of some infantary fighting vehicles but produce them locally (only if they fits in our military doctrain). turkey on other hand may benefit from APCs developed by turkey or may be both countries can co develop something even better in this feild!!

regards!
 
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and yes ofcourse the T-155 Firtina Howitzer is an item of great intrest. it may seem that Pakistan army after having received howitzer fromUS might not be intrest but if we can develop them at home it will be a great system to play with. non the less , howitzers are still an important part of military warefare with PA setting a goal to standardize its guns to the 155mm caliber, the Turkish-Korean cooperation program of T-155 is of great intrest. moreover there is another thing that my friend Cabatli have not mentioned yet, it is the MBRL systems. recently we heared about something much accurate developed there. Pakistan army must go for a few of these systems.

regards!
 
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some older MBRL used by turkey:

ROKETSAN : T-122 Sakarya rocket system

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Agreement for cooperation between MKEK and TUBITAK - SAGE to develop the 122mm medium range artillery rocket was signed in the early 1990's and by using solid propellant technology of MKEK, SAGE developed a 122mm artillery rocket which was designated as Mizrak (Spear). For the launcher system two proposals were made by the
TUBITAK - SAGE with MKEK offered the Bora design, which very much resembled Yugoslavian M-77 Oganj MBRLS.

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ROKETSAN & KaleKalip's design was selected due to the advantage of the computerized fire control system. First prototype of this 122mm MBRLS on 6x6 tactical vehicle was first revealed to public in 1995 and fire tests were executed the same year in Karapinar Firing Range, Konya. Limited series production systems were delivered to Turkish Land Forces Command for evaluation in 1996 and full scale production deliveries commenced in 1997. Turkey rejected different offer made by Germany including the transfer of around 130 110mm LARS (Light Artillery Rocket System) MBRL systems in mid 1990's due to in confidence in system.
The T-122 Sakarya MBRL System that is designed to be autonomous artillery rocket system that can be used for indirect fire support mission during day and night, and in all weather conditions against area targets. There are two versions of T-122 MBRLS in service with Turkish land forces: MAN 26.281 6x6 (earlier production models) and MAN 26.372 6x6 mounted systems.



There are two set of 20-round tubes on the launcher, which can be hydraulically traversed and elevated. T-122 Sakarya rockets can be fired singly or in salvo. A full salvo of 40 rockets can be launched in 80 seconds. Reloading is via a hydraulic loading crane which is mounted on the launcher. When deployed in the firing position, four stabilizers are lowered to the ground under hydraulic control to provide a more stable firing platform.


T-122 Sakarya is designed to fulfills its mission independently or under battery organization of six T-122 MBRL's and can completes the firing mission of 40 rockets in 80 second, can deliver 740kg of warhead in a ripple firing and is operated by 5 men crew in regular usage or 3 men crew in emergency case.

The firing mission of the launcher is controlled with an onboard FCS which can do Built In Test (BIT) before and during firing, calculate firing data automatically for 122 mm rockets with different warheads using a precise flight simulation software, automatically aim and stow the launcher, fire the rockets in single or ripple in 2 sec. intervals, store up to 20 target locations. ROKETSAN now offers sealed launcher pods, which are specifically designed to resist harsh environment. These maintenance free pods are loaded at factory level by ROKETSAN. The rocket fuses are set remotely by the FCS.


T-122 Sakarya MBRLS is in serial production as of 2008 and more than 72 systems have been delivered to Turkish armed forces, including more than 18 systems to Cyprus Turkish Peace Corps. Currently Turkish land forces command is looking to purchase sealed launcher pods and TRK / SRK series of rockets with submunitions. T-122 Sakarya is deployed for suppression of enemy artillery, supporting muzzled artillery fire, providing direct fire support into depths of enemy lines and engaging high value targets such as air defence systems, command & control centers, supply lines, etc.

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ROKETSAN has successfully exported TR-122 Sakarya MBRLS series to United Arab Emirates with the sale of 10,000 TRB-122 and TRK-122 rockets to be used from Italian made FIROS-25 122mm MBRLS. ROKETSAN was established in 1988 through the order of Defence Industry Executive Committee. Its main focus is on design, development and production of guided and unguided rocket and missile systems and related subsystems for the domestic use and for export. ROKETSAN has participated in international projects like production and test launching of motors of Stinger missiles for the European consortium, design and production of the flight termination unit of ESSM in the Engineering and Manufacturing Development Phase. The company currently produces various parts such as thrust vector control, warhead and control sections. One of the newest research and development projects of ROKETSAN is Cirit (Jereed) 2.75" laser guided rocket system for T-129 attack helicopters. Consisting of a laser seeker, guidance and control unit and moving surfaces installed on a 2.75" unguided rocket. Roketsan successfully tested its new 2.75in air-ground rocket in a precision-guided version in 2006. Cirit is expected to enter serial production in 2009. The laser guided rocket is 1.9m long, weighs 14kg and has a maximum range of 8km.

regards!
 
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moreover there are:

WS-1
The WS-1 is a 302 mm self-propelled multiple rocket launcher used by the People's Liberation Army of China. It is part of the Weishi Rockets family of weapons systems. It was designed by Sichuan Aerospace Industry Corporation (SCAIC, also known as Base 062).

It is also adapted by Turkey's Roketsan corporation as TR-300 "Kasırga" and used by the Turkish Armed Forces.

and

TOROS artillery rocket system
TOROS (Topçu Roket Sistemi - Artillery Rocket System ) is a Turkish artillery rocket system, that has been developed in both 230 and 260 millimeter calibres. The system was developed by SAGE, and is used by the Turkish Army. The larger calibre rockets have a maximum range of 110 kilometers deliver a 145 kilogram high-explosive fragmentation warhead containing 30,000 steel balls.

The system consists of four vehicles:

Launcher vehicle 6×6
Logistics vehicle 6×6
Maintenance vehicle 6×6
Fire Command-Control vehicle 4×4

regards!
 
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Yes Bro,

122mm MLRS Roketsan (Max. Range: 46km),

FCS;

* Accomplishes system tests before and during firing
* Calculates firing data using a flight simulation software
* Takes the launcher up to firing and field position
* Fires the rockets in single or ripple
* Plans the mission data previously and collects the outcome data
* Aims the weapon system

Tactical Advantages of T-122 Weapon System:

* Enters the battle field and takes firing position in a snatch
* Fulfills its mission autonomously with vehicle mounted crane and strong Fire Control System
* T-122 launcher fulfills its mission independently or under battery organization of six launchers.
* Creates surprise effect with short response time
* Enables the mission to be completed inside the cabin, with armored cabins and filtered air conditioning
* Enables voice and data communication, with the tactical communication system

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UAE has ordered 10.000 item T-122 rockets...Delivery has been completed sucessuly...
 
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302mm MLRS Roketsan Kasirga (Storm) (Turkey-China co-operation program) in 1998 (Max. Range 100km)


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UAE wanted a technology transfer for 300mm rocket technology and signed an agreement with Roketsan...

"ROKETSAN Company and AL JABER Company from United Arab Emirates have reached an agreement for a contract to design and develop a weapon system for a Middle East Country during the IDEX 2009. The contract volume is around 90 Million US $."

Roketsan Official Web Site

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the departments of mutual intrest are perhaps air defence Systems. both countries are going well with there tanks and APCs but pakistan may look forward to some good air defence missiles and perhaps seek for technology of some infantary fighting vehicles but produce them locally (only if they fits in our military doctrain). turkey on other hand may benefit from APCs developed by turkey or may be both countries can co develop something even better in this feild!!

regards!


At current warfare environments, The surprise hard attacks always perfom by Airforces. If you do not have enough toys to threaten the enemy airforces, You can only watch their A-G bombs while they are approaching your valuable strategic buildings so I always classify Air Defence Systems like The Most strategic Technologies of the World.

Let Nuclear weapons aside, There is only two type countries in World for me.
The countries which is able to develop own air defence missiles with own source-codes-softwares and anothers so Developing our own air defence systems are a vital matter for us.

We are going to see some matured developments until 2015 in Turkey and I think If Turkey develop those type critical technologies, Sooner or later, The brotherly countries of Turkey such as Azerbaijan and Pakistan would have those systems without any serious monetary expectations, If Pakistan and Azeri officials demand, Because Any European countries, Even S. Africa do not approach to share those type technologies with anothers and If you known like a Muslim nation, It means All gates will be closed at starting phase of your meeting...

so It is a prohibition for us to develop those technologies in a short time...
 
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When available, the PA might buy up to 300 Altay MBTs from Turkey directly. The Al Khalid-2 will be modelled around the ZTZ-99, but it will use a 1500hp engine...so we may see Pak adopt the Altay's engine, electronics, armor-technology, etc, onto the Al Khalid-series.
 
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When available, the PA might buy up to 300 Altay MBTs from Turkey directly. The Al Khalid-2 will be modelled around the ZTZ-99, but it will use a 1500hp engine...so we may see Pak adopt the Altay's engine, electronics, armor-technology, etc, onto the Al Khalid-series.

I do not suppose that Pakistan and Turkish officials will go to a cooperation about Tank technologies because Pakistan industry has already been producing a Tank called Al-Khalid and trying to improve its skills with some upgrades and modifications under the name of Al-Khalid-2. Changing your course towards a 3th solution for your heavy armoured troops will be a logistic nightmare indeed...

I think Pakistani officials are interested in more of Turkish Naval programs, Air defence Missile and Radar programs and T-129 Atak-Male UAV technologies... Those interest has already been published on magazines and newspapers but I did not see any single article about Tank technologies to cooperate...
 
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According to Roketsan manager, H. Baysak;

Both Low and Medium altitude indigenous SAM's will share lots of similar parts such as guidance section, warhead, fuse. Propulsion section of both missile make the differences between them.

Current released datas about them...

Low Altitude Towed Air Defence Missile Program
-IIR Seeker
-Vertical Launch
-Aselsan Radar
-Thrust vector control
-Range ) 12km

T-LAIADMIS (Low Altitude Otonom Air defence missile program) (This will also use same missiles with towed system)
-IIR Seeker
-Vertical Launch
-5 years development period
-Aselsan Radar
-Thrust vector control
-Range ) 12km

T-MAIADMIS (Medium Altitude Air Defence Missile Program)
-IIR or Radar homing Seeker
-Vertical Launch
-5 years development period
-Aselsan Radar
-Thrust Vector Control
-Range ) 25km


Hope to see VL Naval versions of those missiles to integrate on future naval programs such as TF-2000 and Milgem...
 
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wonderfull work brother cabatli! hats off to you, although i think this thread would have been better if in right section of world ilitary affair.
yes as some other members have suggested that MBRL and air defence misiles are the areas in which pakistan must seek turkey helps. pakistan and turkey can both benefit from joint UCAV projects and also armoured infantary vehicles.
in MBRL the t-122 is a good machine. if we can develop a better fire control and accuracy system it would be on of the most leathal weapons in the battle feild.

thanksyou again!
 
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