Turkish F-4 beat Chinese Su-27S 0:8

[CardSharp]

Another thing that is irksome is that we don't know the circumstance of the fight. If it is a dogfight then the PLAAF pilots must be morons if they lost. The F-4 was designed when the USAF still believed that future air battles will be dictated by long range missiles and manueverability really wasn't its game. Vietnamese and Chinese pilots have downed F-4s with MIG-19s in gun range before. If it is a BVR fight and the F-4s had AWAC support then it is possible for them to gain an upper hand.

Really a headline like this means... F' all.

Wars are not won by Rambo with a M60 or Tom Cruise in a F-14 but by integrated air command doctrine combined with pilot training.

If this news mean anything at all, it just means that China has a ways to go in terms of pilot training, something that everyone's known since the 1950's.

 

[below_freezing]

according to latest news;
1.we lost, su-27 vs F-4,
2. F-4 with the help of AWAC , su-27not,8 F-4 vs 2 su-27,4 rounds, we lost 8 su-27 and cant shot down one F-4, 0:8
3. the chinese pilots are from PLA navy, not from PLA AF,and PLA navy pilot is far inferior to PLA airforce,this is well known.
4. these pilots are F-8 pilots, they fly su-27 only severy weeks, to prepare for reciving latest J-15.

So you are saying: we lost because we were blind, outnumbered, had newbies (contradicting the first statement that said the pilots were from K2S) and that it was navy.

Why does the story change then? From 1 contradiction to another?

Our pilot training program isn't that terrible, at least not as terrible to lose with elite pilots in Su-27s to F-4s. We've trained pakistani pilots and they've trained us, and Pakistani pilots outgunned Israelis. Also exercised with Russia. We've also made a US plane shoot another down without firing a shot during the Vietnam War. Not even mentioning Korea.

 

[chengdusudise]

So you are saying: we lost because we were blind, outnumbered, had newbies (contradicting the first statement that said the pilots were from K2S) and that it was navy.

Why does the story change then? From 1 contradiction to another?

Our pilot training program isn't that terrible, at least not as terrible to lose with elite pilots in Su-27s to F-4s. We've trained pakistani pilots and they've trained us, and Pakistani pilots outgunned Israelis. Also exercised with Russia. We've also made a US plane shoot another down without firing a shot during the Vietnam War. Not even mentioning Korea.

5. the su-27s are from 2th division of PLA airforce,these navy pilots are trained in 2th divison
6.navy chief of staff Wu Shengli want to see the performance of his pilots, now his pilots are mocked by PLAAF pilots, the 0:8 news is leaked from PLAAF
the PLA navy pilots are far inferior to PLA AF pilots, because in china, all aviation flight university are controlled by PLA AF, PLAAF choose the first rate graduats to fly fighter, the second rate graduats to fly bomber,such as H-6,. and kick the third rate graduats to PLA Navy.
Navy is angry with airforce but has no other choice. now Navy want to bulid themselve's aviation flight university

 

[Jigs]

I can see this happening if the F-4s are 2020 terminators those have Israeli made Elta radars in them and they have a 150+km detection and tracking range. They can hold their own against most 4th gen platforms but they are not geared for dog fighting.


Certainly this article popping up in questionable. Turkey rarely releases anything on how the Anatolian Eagle went so this could be fake.

Is this the first time Chinese pilots went against NATO standard pilots ? It also depends on experience too. We have a number of pilots that have clocked 3k+ on F-4s.

 

[Luo]

Practise my English again.
Chinese Su-27s got terrible beats in Turky, lost face and reputation. This news has been widespread in China's main millitary forums since yesterday.
As a veteran and millitary technology fan. I think it's a good lesson for those who take vicotory for granted when they got weapons of first class. The weapon is not for showing off and exhibition, yet carfully planned training and systemic integratation are most needed. Expensing money is very easy but the only consequence could not be very embarassed.

Of course, I hope it only a rumor, which was made intentionally.

 

[Jigs]

Might i also add if this is classic AE then it would be Blues with AWACS support attacking the Reds who would have SAM support.

 

[chengdusudise]

I can see this happening if the F-4s are 2020 terminators those have Israeli made Elta radars in them and they have a 150+km detection and tracking range. They can hold their own against most 4th gen platforms but they are not geared for dog fighting.


Certainly this article popping up in questionable. Turkey rarely releases anything on how the Anatolian Eagle went so this could be fake.

Is this the first time Chinese pilots went against NATO standard pilots ? It also depends on experience too. We have a number of pilots that have clocked 3k+ on F-4s.

according to latest news;
1.we lost, su-27SK vs F-4,
2. F-4 with the help of AWAC , su-27not,8 F-4 vs 2 su-27,4 rounds, we lost 8 su-27 in BVR fight and cant shot down one F-4, 0:8
3. the chinese pilots are from PLA navy, not from PLA AF,and PLA navy pilot is far inferior to PLA airforce,this is well known.
4. these pilots are F-8 pilots, they fly su-27 only severy weeks, to prepare for reciving latest J-15.
5. the su-27s are from 2th division of PLA airforce,these navy pilots are trained in 2th divison
6.navy chief of staff Wu Shengli want to see the performance of his pilots, now his pilots are mocked by PLAAF pilots, the 0:8 news is leaked from PLAAF to make navy "lost face"

 

[gypgypgyp]

according to latest news;
1.we lost, su-27SK vs F-4,
2. F-4 with the help of AWAC , su-27not,8 F-4 vs 2 su-27,4 rounds, we lost 8 su-27 in BVR fight and cant shot down one F-4, 0:8
3. the chinese pilots are from PLA navy, not from PLA AF,and PLA navy pilot is far inferior to PLA airforce,this is well known.
4. these pilots are F-8 pilots, they fly su-27 only severy weeks, to prepare for reciving latest J-15.
5. the su-27s are from 2th division of PLA airforce,these navy pilots are trained in 2th divison
6.navy chief of staff Wu Shengli want to see the performance of his pilots, now his pilots are mocked by PLAAF pilots, the 0:8 news is leaked from PLAAF to make navy "lost face"

Holy ****!


2th division equip J-11B first batch. If what you state is correct, it mean J-11B which design and produced in 2006-2007 lost battle to F-4(when it was designed and produced?)

 

[gypgypgyp]

2th division is placed at Hainan island, to protect south china sea.

By the record and execrise from the past, they are No. 1 of PLAAF.

They get best pilot, best arecraft, best maintenance among all PLAAF division.

 

[CardSharp]

I can see this happening if the F-4s are 2020 terminators those have Israeli made Elta radars in them and they have a 150+km detection and tracking range. They can hold their own against most 4th gen platforms but they are not geared for dog fighting.

This goes back to beyond visual range vs dogfighting school of air combat. At BVR, the Elta radar would give a decided advantage, but really in BVR combat, the aircraft could be a WWI double decker prop plane for all it matters, what matters is the the gadgets on the plane not the performance of the plane or the pilot.

 

[gypgypgyp]

2th division only get 1 squadron J-11/Su-27 aircraft which is 6th squadron


the wrost J-11 in 6th squadron is first batch J-11B, the old Su-27SK has been transferred to other division years ago or retired.

I do not count SU-27UBK

 

[chengdusudise]

Holy ****!


2th division equip J-11B first batch. If what you state is correct, it mean J-11B which design and produced in 2006-2007 lost battle to F-4(when it was designed and produced?)

they also has J-11,similiar to SU-27sk

 

[siegecrossbow]

Wait a second the PLANAF operates J-11s and Su-27s? I thought the only flanker that they operated were Su-30s.

 

[below_freezing]

5. the su-27s are from 2th division of PLA airforce,these navy pilots are trained in 2th divison
6.navy chief of staff Wu Shengli want to see the performance of his pilots, now his pilots are mocked by PLAAF pilots, the 0:8 news is leaked from PLAAF
the PLA navy pilots are far inferior to PLA AF pilots, because in china, all aviation flight university are controlled by PLA AF, PLAAF choose the first rate graduats to fly fighter, the second rate graduats to fly bomber,such as H-6,. and kick the third rate graduats to PLA Navy.
Navy is angry with airforce but has no other choice. now Navy want to bulid themselve's aviation flight university

where is the proof then? all i see is one yankee (that is his name) talking about how we lost and some taiwan guy spreading the rumor. started on page 11.

---------- Post added at 11:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 AM ----------

the f*ing story changes every 5 minutes why the hell is everyone obsessed by it?

 

[gypgypgyp]

they also has J-11,similiar to SU-27sk

you certainly get wrong info.

6th squadron is the No. 1 blue flag in Red/blue flag execrise.


6th equip Su-27Sk since 1993. If they have a replacement, there is no reason replace Su-27sk by similar J-11A. Only J-11b fit for them.