Turkish Engine Programs

[xenon54 out]

I was thinking about a very small battery but better recharge capability.

You still wont come close to the energy density of gasoline for the same additional weight of a larger tank.

 

[LegionnairE]

You still wont come close to the energy density of gasoline for the same additional weight of a larger tank.

perhaps, but you need to do the math with the amount of potential sunlight it can get, not with Li-ion battery.

are the solar panels and a small electric motor worth the weight? that's the question.

 

[xenon54 out]

perhaps, but you need to do the math with the amount of potential sunlight it can get, not with Li-ion battery.

are the solar panels and a small electric motor worth the weight? that's the question.

You still need to store the energy somewhere though.

 

[LegionnairE]

You still need to store the energy somewhere though.

You could have a battery about as large as a of a laptop.

Solar panels don't produce a crazy amount of energy. And a MALE UAV almost constantly burns energy to stay in the air. So I doubt even such a small battery would fill after take off. So batteries are pretty much irrelevant, main bulk of the system would be solar panels.

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

airbus zephyr- are you kidding me? we dont have a competition who can go higher, but who can bring the radar, thermal cameras and rockets to that height... Do you feel the difference and even feel shamed for choosing it?

You cannot compare those pistone engines with the one we mention, as SPitfire used Rolls-Royce Merlin v12 had 1470HP and i hope you understand how much fuel you need to keep it for 24 hours in the air...
We talk here about 2L piston engine families..

as it was mentioned at airbus zephyr website, it is offering voice, data communications both line of sight and beyond the line of sight

You asked me to give examples of 1 drone that flies high. I gave an elaborate answer stating that even a solar drone can fly high at 70000feet and then went to say that piston engine flying at that height is not a new technology by giving WW2 examples.

For modern examples I gave altus & phantom eye. These are piston planes too.

You still wont come close to the energy density of gasoline for the same additional weight of a larger tank.

You could have a battery about as large as a of a laptop.

Solar panels don't produce a crazy amount of energy. And a MALE UAV almost constantly burns energy to stay in the air. So I doubt even such a small battery would fill after take off. So batteries are pretty much irrelevant, main bulk of the system would be solar panels.

The idea of solar drone is to have large wingspan so as to get a natural lift by buoyancy and use solar power to get the remaining lift to stay afloat. With large wings, it is possible to have minimal powered rotors to keep the drone afloat. This also means that Li battery can be charged during day and the charge can sustain the night.

 

[Saithan]

Well, it's all good.

Nice UAV, though I think it's a bit outside of what we were talking about.

I think staying on "relevant" topic and using examples that are comparable would reduce the hardness of how we discuss things.

Given the R&D stage we're at, I think it would be more beneficial to give examples in the same category. I am not sure we should start developing something new immediately, but rather finish what we've started.

But I don't think we can rule out that some R&D are going on in the direction of battery and Solar panels on UAV. It's only natural for the development to go in that direction.

pd-170 with 170 hp isn't bad, but what is the altitude ceiling before we need something that will ensure our UAV are operable at higher altitudes ?

And will a hybrid engine use electricity at lower heights or when it reaches above the altitude ceiling, but then again from what i read it won't provide enough power to drive the UAV forward (not enough MJ from what I could understand).

 

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[Vijyes Yechury]

Well, it's all good.

Nice UAV, though I think it's a bit outside of what we were talking about.

I think staying on "relevant" topic and using examples that are comparable would reduce the hardness of how we discuss things.

Given the R&D stage we're at, I think it would be more beneficial to give examples in the same category. I am not sure we should start developing something new immediately, but rather finish what we've started.

But I don't think we can rule out that some R&D are going on in the direction of battery and Solar panels on UAV. It's only natural for the development to go in that direction.

pd-170 with 170 hp isn't bad, but what is the altitude ceiling before we need something that will ensure our UAV are operable at higher altitudes ?

And will a hybrid engine use electricity at lower heights or when it reaches above the altitude ceiling, but then again from what i read it won't provide enough power to drive the UAV forward (not enough MJ from what I could understand).

You are right that solar powered electric engine in Zephyr doesn't provide enough energy to move the drone fast and its speed is 30kmph. But the solar drones are meant to loiter around an area.

 

[Kamil_baku]

perhaps, but you need to do the math with the amount of potential sunlight it can get, not with Li-ion battery.

are the solar panels and a small electric motor worth the weight? that's the question.

What if you want to have night operation or when its raining or cloudy?
In military standart, it should work in any case, especially as we all saw, pkk try to attack when the weather is cloudy..

 

[Kamil_baku]

You asked me to give examples of 1 drone that flies high. I gave an elaborate answer stating that even a solar drone can fly high at 70000feet and then went to say that piston engine flying at that height is not a new technology by giving WW2 examples.

For modern examples I gave altus & phantom eye. These are piston planes too.





The idea of solar drone is to have large wingspan so as to get a natural lift by buoyancy and use solar power to get the remaining lift to stay afloat. With large wings, it is possible to have minimal powered rotors to keep the drone afloat. This also means that Li battery can be charged during day and the charge can sustain the night.

Cant you just stop lying?
Zephyr doesnt use a piston engine but 2 electric engine, Brushless DC electric motor plus solar panels. Its basically work like an electric car..

Brushless DC electric motor (BLDC motors, BL motors) also known as electronically commutated motors (ECMs, EC motors), or synchronous DC motors, are synchronous motors powered by DC electricity via an inverter or switching power supply which produces an AC electric current to drive each phase of the motor via a closed loop controller. The controller provides pulses of current to the motor windings that control the speed and torque of the motor.

That engine alone is 900kg. Do you even know how heavy Anka is?
What about the service of that big engine, plus costs.. you could better use a jet..

If it was an easy job, you couldnt count countries who can produce it with fingers in your hand..

Even China bough the whole German company which Anka used too, to get the technology and improve its engine..

 

[LegionnairE]

What if you want to have night operation or when its raining or cloudy?
In military standart, it should work in any case, especially as we all saw, pkk try to attack when the weather is cloudy..

I already answered that.

I was thinking about a very small battery but better recharge capability.

a modular photovoltaic pannel pack that you can remove during cloudy days perhaps

ANKA stays in the air 24 hours, you could perhaps fly during the day with half solar - half diesel energy

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Cant you just stop lying?
Zephyr doesnt use a piston engine but 2 electric engine, Brushless DC electric motor plus solar panels. Its basically work like an electric car..

Brushless DC electric motor (BLDC motors, BL motors) also known as electronically commutated motors (ECMs, EC motors), or synchronous DC motors, are synchronous motors powered by DC electricity via an inverter or switching power supply which produces an AC electric current to drive each phase of the motor via a closed loop controller. The controller provides pulses of current to the motor windings that control the speed and torque of the motor.

That engine alone is 900kg. Do you even know how heavy Anka is?
What about the service of that big engine, plus costs.. you could better use a jet..

If it was an easy job, you couldnt count countries who can produce it with fingers in your hand..

Even China bough the whole German company which Anka used too, to get the technology and improve its engine..

I did not lie. I never claimed that Zephyr is similar to Anka. India got a much cheaper version of zephyr - aerostat or air balloon tethered with wires to ground station. So, zephyr is not a drone I recommend. Aerostat is better. So, let us leave this zephyr topic.

 

[Nefer]

I already answered that.

And in order for that to work, you would have to ditch the engine for a power plant because it cannot power the shaft with the diesel engine and an elektromotor(well you could but than we would have a ww2 germany situation where over engineering killed the tanks in their tracks).

So you will have an Elektromotor which would power the propeller and the diesel engine which will act as a power plant to produce electricity for that elektromotor. And next to that have a

modular photovoltaic pannel pack that you can remove during cloudy days perhaps

which is conditional. Than there is the question whether the current size of the UAV's big enough to collect enough power to justify the installation, because of the added weight which in turn will require more power and thus more fuel consumption to keep it in the air. Besides the fact that you have added complexity which is always a bad idea in military equipment.

 

[xenon54 out]

The idea of solar drone is to have large wingspan so as to get a natural lift by buoyancy and use solar power to get the remaining lift to stay afloat. With large wings, it is possible to have minimal powered rotors to keep the drone afloat. This also means that Li battery can be charged during day and the charge can sustain the night.

This drone cant carry anything close to what an armed UAV is supposed to carry.

but then again from what i read it won't provide enough power to drive the UAV forward (not enough MJ from what I could understand).

An electric motor is more than capable to mess with petrol engines given there is a big enough energy source, just watch a Tesla burying petrol engined cars on drag race.

This Tesla has the same car as the one its racing on its trailer, watch the result yourself.

What you read is the energy density, to power a UAV as Anka with the same payload you would need a quite big battery pack which i doubt that the UAV could even take off at all with the batteries of today.

 

[Bismarck]

That will depend on the drone's fuel tank. He was just speaking of the new engine developed. The more appropriate parameter is fuel consumption per hour at different power output

Okay, let’s assume full tank.