Turkish Defence Industry Exports & Updates

[Seyfullah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/965175423113072640

 

[-------]

How about a little visual update from our 105 mm Boran Air Transportable Light Towed Howitzer. Undegoing stress testing.

 

[LegionnairE]

How about a little visual update from our 105 mm Boran Air Transportable Light Towed Howitzer. Undegoing stress testing.

looks much better than the initial design. Are we going to use any titanium in this thing? Or still aluminium?

I see a weird box on top and what looks like some hydrolics at the side. Any idea what those might be?

 

[HannibalBarca]

looks much better than the initial design. Are we going to use any titanium in this thing? Or still aluminium?

I see a weird box on top and what looks like some hydrolics at the side. Any idea what those might be?

The box is a muzzle velocity radar

 

[LegionnairE]

The box is a muzzle velocity radar

I suspected that but why would you nee.... oh, for testing purposes obviously duh

The hydrolic looking thing looks like the coil on the side of the M119 howitzer
must be for reducing the recoil. Since the whole system is very light, not much mass to absorb recoil so they are trying to soften it.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I suspected that but why would you nee.... oh, for testing purposes obviously duh

The hydrolic looking thing looks like the coil on the side of the M119 howitzer
must be for reducing the recoil. Since the whole system is very light, not much mass to absorb recoil so they are trying to soften it.

The Box will stay in the final product.
"Boran is fitted with an onboard Aselsan fire control system (FCS) and inertial navigation system (INS). A muzzle velocity radar is mounted above the 105 mm ordnance and feeds information to the FCS."

 

[LegionnairE]

The Box will stay in the final product.
"Boran is fitted with an onboard Aselsan fire control system (FCS) and inertial navigation system (INS). A muzzle velocity radar is mounted above the 105 mm ordnance and feeds information to the FCS."

That sounds like unnecessary weight to me, I won't be surprised if people end up taking it off like how AH65 Apaches' long bow radars are mostly taken off these days.

As long as the environmental conditions aren't too extreme you should be able to get consistent muzzle velocity, even if you're changing the gunpowder charge all the time, the digital fire control system should be able to calculate the amount of veolcity that you're going to get.

Looks like unnecessary complexity for probably very little gain.

it would be probably easier to attach a thermometer and barometer to the system and use that data to estimate the muzzle velocity. Like, you realize that the muzzle velocity of the gun is never going to be a huge surprise right? it just won't be very useful.

Maybe if they use that radar to follow the shells a bit longer and get an estimation of the wind aswell... then it could be more useful. I'd like that.

 

[HannibalBarca]

That sounds like unnecessary weight to me, I won't be surprised if people end up taking it off like how AH65 Apaches' long bow radars are mostly taken off these days.

As long as the environmental conditions aren't too extreme you should be able to get consistent muzzle velocity, even if you're changing the gunpowder charge all the time, the digital fire control system should be able to calculate the amount of veolcity that you're going to get.

Looks like unnecessary complexity for probably very little gain.

If that could give the soldiers the possibility to hit the target...instead of hitting 2-5 meters farer...Then I will be glad for this "addon"

 

[Kamil_baku]

That sounds like unnecessary weight to me, I won't be surprised if people end up taking it off like how AH65 Apaches' long bow radars are mostly taken off these days.

As long as the environmental conditions aren't too extreme you should be able to get consistent muzzle velocity, even if you're changing the gunpowder charge all the time, the digital fire control system should be able to calculate the amount of veolcity that you're going to get.

Looks like unnecessary complexity for probably very little gain.

it would be probably easier to attach a thermometer and barometer to the system and use that data to estimate the muzzle velocity. Like, you realize that the muzzle velocity of the gun is never going to be a huge surprise right? it just won't be very useful.

Maybe if they use that radar to follow the shells a bit longer and get an estimation of the wind aswell... then it could be more useful. I'd like that.

the reason is this artillary can see at shoot like tanks. thats why its very important..

 

[era_shield]

Even if you can measure all kinds of environmental conditions, small differences in the powder can still affect muzzle velocity, so it's useful to be able to use the muzzle velocimeter to see when rounds are going faster or slower than usual because then for the rest of the rounds you can adjust to compensate for it.

 

[LegionnairE]

Even if you can measure all kinds of environmental conditions, small differences in the powder can still affect muzzle velocity, so it's useful to be able to use the muzzle velocimeter to see when rounds are going faster or slower than usual because then for the rest of the rounds you can adjust to compensate for it.

which is impossible to predict and correct for in the next shot anyway
you'll never know if the next shell is overloaded or underloaded during the production.

as I said, I find it pointless if the radar is just used for muzzle velocity. if it tracks the shell and gives you an estimation on of the wind it could be more useful.

If you're getting substandard ammo, it's pointless to try to correct for that even if you know how the last shot you've fired went. However you could maybe add a scale to the system that measures the weight of the shell to get an estimation.

It's weird and unorthodox is what I'm trying to say. M777 is a very advanced and expensive artillery piece, much more expensive than what this 105mm gun is going to be. But even it doesn't have a radar.

Because it's effectiveness is questionable.

 

[era_shield]

which is impossible to predict and correct for in the next shot anyway

as I said, I find it pointless if the radar is just used for muzzle velocity. if it tracks the shell and gives you an estimation on of the wind it could be more useful.

The powder in the next shot will usually come from the same batch, will be at a similar temperature and stored in a similar environment, etc, and there are factors other than powder too. This patent explains it a little:

"Muzzle velocity is an important parameter in fire control systems wherein a field gun is aimed at a distant target. Typically, in a fire control system, muzzle velocity is assumed to be a constant parameter, and the more apparent variable parameters, such as wind data and target range, are entered into the fire control system and to compute gun-laying orders. However, muzzle velocity is not constant because the variations in powder charge and variations in projectile weight may cause considerable variations in the muzzle velocity for a given type of weapon. Also, barrel wear causes each individual gun to have different muzzle velocity characteristics over its useful life. Even over the short period of time, changes in the temperature of the barrel cause variations in the muzzle velocity.

To overcome the problem of a variation in muzzle velocity, it is desirable to measure muzzle velocity directly and enter the measured data into the fire control system to increase accuracy."

 

[LegionnairE]

The powder in the next shot will usually come from the same batch, will be at a similar temperature and stored in a similar environment, etc, and there are factors other than powder too. This patent explains it a little:

"Muzzle velocity is an important parameter in fire control systems wherein a field gun is aimed at a distant target. Typically, in a fire control system, muzzle velocity is assumed to be a constant parameter, and the more apparent variable parameters, such as wind data and target range, are entered into the fire control system and to compute gun-laying orders. However, muzzle velocity is not constant because the variations in powder charge and variations in projectile weight may cause considerable variations in the muzzle velocity for a given type of weapon. Also, barrel wear causes each individual gun to have different muzzle velocity characteristics over its useful life. Even over the short period of time, changes in the temperature of the barrel cause variations in the muzzle velocity.

To overcome the problem of a variation in muzzle velocity, it is desirable to measure muzzle velocity directly and enter the measured data into the fire control system to increase accuracy."

Wartime productions, all of that will go to shit. You're going to have inexperiencede workers mobilized to produce ammo. Much like WWI, standards go out the window when you're forced to make a million shells a month. You're going to have old women working in the factories.

it would be much better to install a scale on the ramming mechanism, but even then you're guessing how much of that weight is powder charge and how much is the actual shell.

And during peacetime the shells are going to be very high quality and ther will be not not very much deviation from the standard aynway.

Perhaps it could adjust for gun-specific things like
you know the amount of shells fired from a gun is going to cause wear and corrosion in the barrel slightly. With the help of the radar you could probably guess how much wear is there inside the bore. But it's a rather expensive way to check for that

 

[kartal1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/966308172142084101

 

[Silahtar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/966529760024145920