Turkish court sentences top pianist accused of tweets that insulted Islam

[Peregrine]

Turkey is a secular country with democrativ values, no matter how bigoted a faction of our population is.

This is what you believe as an individual, but this is what the Turkish Constitution has to say.

Article 24. c5. No one shall be allowed to exploit or abuse religion or religious feelings, or things held sacred by religion, in any manner whatsoever, for the purpose of personal or political influence, or for even partially basing the fundamental, social, economic, political, and legal order of the state on religious tenets.

Like I said earlier......you have a law....this man was rightly punished and thats it. I dont think this clause would cover Atheism since the basic idea in Atheism is to deny religions all together and this article is only for religions.

 

[Peregrine]

Turkey is not an islamic state, it is a secular state.

Majority is still Muslim right? You are a democracy right? Democracy is the rule of the majority right? So will the majority let a minority hurt its religious sentiments? Do the math and also have a look at the Turkish Constitution.
Article 24 c5. No one shall be allowed to exploit or abuse religion or religious feelings, or things held sacred by religion, in any manner whatsoever, for the purpose of personal or political influence, or for even partially basing the fundamental, social, economic, political, and legal order of the state on religious tenets.
If Turkish people didnt approve of these laws then they wouldnt be here, but the reality is otherwise.....

 

[TurAr]

This is what you believe as an individual, but this is what the Turkish Constitution has to say.

Article 24. c5. No one shall be allowed to exploit or abuse religion or religious feelings, or things held sacred by religion, in any manner whatsoever, for the purpose of personal or political influence, or for even partially basing the fundamental, social, economic, political, and legal order of the state on religious tenets.

Like I said earlier......you have a law....this man was rightly punished and thats it. I dont think this clause would cover Atheism since the basic idea in Atheism is to deny religions all together and this article is only for religions.

Thanks for bringing up that article, which is being constantly violated by the Islamist AKP. Do you know what exploit and abuse means in this article? It basically means: do not use religion to manipulate the masses for your personal or political influence.

Maybe you would answer it, in which of his tweet Fazıl Say insulted Islam, can you copy paste it here?

By the way, here is the full Article 24:

ARTICLE 24. Everyone has the right to freedom of conscience, religious belief and
conviction.
Acts of worship, religious services, and ceremonies shall be conducted freely, provided
that they do not violate the provisions of Article 14.
No one shall be compelled to worship, or to participate in religious ceremonies and rites, to
reveal religious beliefs and convictions, or be blamed or accused because of his religious
beliefs and convictions.
Education and instruction in religion and ethics shall be conducted under state supervision
and control. Instruction in religious culture and moral education shall be compulsory in the
curricula of primary and secondary schools. Other religious education and instruction shall
be subject to the individual’s own desire, and in the case of minors, to the request of their
legal representatives.
No one shall be allowed to exploit or abuse religion or religious feelings, or things held
sacred by religion, in any manner whatsoever, for the purpose of personal or political
influence, or for even partially basing the fundamental, social, economic, political, and
legal order of the state on religious tenets.

Here is Article 10:

ARTICLE 10. All individuals are equal without any discrimination before the law,
irrespective of language, race, colour, sex, political opinion, philosophical belief, religion
and sect, or any such considerations.
Men and women have equal rights. The State shall have the obligation to ensure that this
equality exists in practice.
No privilege shall be granted to any individual, family, group or class.
State organs and administrative authorities shall act in compliance with the principle of
equality before the law in all their proceedings.

Here is Article 25:

ARTICLE 25. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought and opinion. No one shall be
compelled to reveal his thoughts and opinions for any reason or purpose, nor shall anyone
be blamed or accused on account of his thoughts and opinions.

 

[Peregrine]

Thanks for bringing up that article, which is being constantly violated by the Islamist AKP. Do you know what exploit and abuse means in this article? It basically means: do not use religion to manipulate the masses for your personal or political influence.

Maybe you would answer it, in which of his tweet Fazıl Say insulted Islam, can you copy paste it here?

By the way, here is the full Article 24:

Its the last para of this Article which is being evoked here.....I dont know know who is exploiting it or not, but its part of the Turkish Constitution and is the Law. Debating over the meanings of the words is a highly subjective affair........so I wont argue there.
As for the controversial tweets....i have quoted them in one of my posts on the same thread, so kindly scroll back you will find them

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Thanks for bringing up that article, which is being constantly violated by the Islamist AKP. Do you know what exploit and abuse means in this article? It basically means: do not use religion to manipulate the masses for your personal or political influence.

AKP is a party that value's the Islamic belief and practice's politics according to that. This isn't unheard of in other democratic countries. There are many political parties that practice politics in conjunction with their religious beliefs, like Christen democrats for instance.

The law is more about using any religion to manipulate the people into following them. Like for instance; 'you are of religion A, if you don't vote for our political party, you will be committing a sin.'

 

[TurAr]

Its the last para of this Article which is being evoked here.....I dont know know who is exploiting it or not, but its part of the Turkish Constitution and is the Law. Debating over the meanings of the words is a highly subjective affair........so I wont argue there.
As for the controversial tweets....i have quoted them in one of my posts on the same thread, so kindly scroll back you will find them

By reffering to a chanting cleric: "What's the hurry? Lover waiting?"

Are you kidding me?

"I am not sure if you have realized it, but where there is scum, a lowlife, a thief or a fool, s/he is always an Allahist. Is this a paradox?"

I don't know why someone would take offence from this unless he is a scum, a lowlife, a thief or a fool.

If your country has such laws then by all means do so.......this bigot violated the law and got what he deserved. If Turkey was an Atheist country then i am sure that you would get this accomplished, but Turkey is a Muslim state and Islamic values will not be breached, no matter how liberal a faction of its population is

Dude you are so pathetic that you fit Say's description perfectly. So, Atheists can be insulted because Turkey according to you, is an Islamic State?

But when Say implied that an Imam might have a lover, you guys saying "How dare you insult Islam"

Isn't it pathetic? I think it is. You guys are the ones who is insulting Islam. Every year, millions of people becoming atheists because of people like you. So intolerant you guys are...

 

[Yuuki]

Article 216 is a typical criminal provision penalizing hate speech. You can see similar articles in the penal codes of many European countries. There are three subparagraphs in this article. The first one criminalizes "inciting hatred" towards people on the basis of race, religion and so on. The second paragraph punishes "denigrating" segments of society on the basis of social class, gender, race, region and so on. The third and last one punishes "openly denigrating the values of a section of the population." Say was punished under this last provision.

Today's Zaman

 

[Jamaal Yelmaaz]

There is no any link between the AKP Goverenment and the Court decision about Pianist Fazil Say.

An engeener named Ali Emre Bukagili had Sued Fazil Say since the violation of freedom of expression...He accused mr.Say and said no one has rights to assault and insult beliefs and values of any one ohers...Such assults in all democraitc countries regarded as violation of freedom of exression he said..



so, me too also congratuelate mr Ali since he showed Fazil Say the right way of critizising others...

Beleiving in atheisim, justifying atheisim or believing in any non-islam beliefs isnot forbidden in Turkey.. But critizizing Ataturk even at level of moderate tone is not only big legal crime it is also a violition of constitution...

So, people who talking about democracy and freedom TOO MUCH first they should see that great paradox.

 

[Yuuki]

Imprisonment sentence about Turkish pianist Say

23 April 2013 23:33 (Last updated 23 April 2013 23:42)
US spokesman said that US was a strong supporter of freedom of expression

WASHINGTON (AA) - US State Department's spokesman Patrick Ventrell said they were a strong supporter of freedom of expression, however, they also deplored speech that deliberately denigrated people of any religion.

Commenting on imprisonment sentence about internationally known Turkish pianist Fazil Say, Ventrell said, "we've been a hundred percent clear about our concerns about freedom of expression in Turkey. We're concerned by any attempt to punish individuals for practicing their right to free speech, which of course is an internationally recognized right. So we do not believe such laws are consistent with core human rights practices. And while we do condemn hateful speech, we deplore speech that deliberately denigrates people of any religion."

"At the same time, we're strong supporters of the right of freedom of expression. So we believe that Turkey's long-term stability, security and prosperity is best guaranteed by upholding the fundamental freedoms of expression, assembly and association that are crucial to the health of any democracy," he added.

Recently, an Istanbul court sentenced pianist Fazil Say 10 month in prison for blasphemy. The sentence was suspended.

The court handed down the sentence after finding Say guilty of "insulting religious values of a part of the population" in a series of tweets that critics said offended Muslims.

Imprisonment sentence about Turkish pianist Say Anadolu Agency

 

[krølbååx]

...aaand that's why we can never have nice things in turkey like south park or family guy.
in 90s the country was in deep **** economically but at least there was some freedom of speech. well, at least you could make fun of the ruling leaders on tv. anyone remember the "plastip show"?
do that now and erdogan's goons will jail you in an instant.

 

[-SINAN-]

@TurAr got banned ? and i have been warned.
@Peregrine being a pakistani in pakistani forum have its benefits right ?

 

[Peregrine]

@TurAr got banned ? and i have been warned.
@Peregrine being a pakistani in pakistani forum have its benefits right ?

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if some one puts his hand on you send him to the cemetery......Malcom X.

Did you see me hurling abuses in any of my posts?......His diatribe was unwarranted and out of line. This is a forum where we all abide by the rules.....If you are openly going to violate them then dont cry foul afterwards. Enjoy!

 

[Huda]

Turkey is not an islamic state, it is a secular state.

And secular state means u can hurt any countrymen by insulting his/her religion. We all should respect other religions. its a matter of emotions so we must care.

 

[-SINAN-]

Did you see me hurling abuses in any of my posts?......His diatribe was unwarranted and out of line. This is a forum where we all abide by the rules.....If you are openly going to violate them then dont cry foul afterwards. Enjoy!

Some don't obey and get away with it. There were 89 deleted posts in this thread. They don't get banned. But mod left my comment and i get a warning for it by another mod.

Hope you feel better after causing banning of a precious forum member.

Anyway, there is no need to drag this, as long as I ignore your posts, i will be okay, i guess.

And secular state means u can hurt any countrymen by insulting his/her religion. We all should respect other religions. its a matter of emotions so we must care.

Don't quote me. Go argue with your countrymen. We get banned for replying.

 

[Peregrine]

Some don't obey and get away with it. There were 89 deleted posts in this thread. They don't get banned. But mod left my comment and i get a warning for it by another mod.

Hope you feel better after causing banning of a precious forum member.

Anyway, there is no need to drag this, as long as I ignore your posts, i will be okay, i guess.



Don't quote me. Go argue with your countrymen. We get banned for replying.

Yes rightly said....there is no need to drag this.....he got what he deserved. I am out of here.