Turkish Commander Checks Out JF-17 C

[MMM-E]

Hellenic Air Force also have Erieye EMB-145H AEW&C to support its jet fighters in an operation. Hellenic Air Force capabilities are expected to be similar to that of Turkish Air Force on many counts because both are NATO member states with exposure to NATO operational realities. I understand that you have your reasons to speak out against Greece but one needs to be realistic in his assumptions.

You needs more military knowledge to compare Hellenic Air Force with the Turkish Air Force


1 -- Greek Erieye EMB-145H AEW&C will be destroyed by 380 km S400 Air Defense Systems
Erieye EMB-145H AEW&C can not enter the game ...

2 -- Turkish Air Force Boeing E-7T AEWC has superior MESA Radar with range of 600+ km to detect Greek F-16V from 350+ km away even over Athens from Turkish airspace

and Greek PATRIOTs can not do anything against Turkish E7-T AEWCs


3 -- Network Centric Warfare with AEWC

Now Greece has only 30 F-16 Block 52+ Advanced Jets with this capability ( link16 data link )
( until 2028 , 84 F-16 block70 modernized Jets will have this capability with Link-16 TDL )

Turkiye has already 163+29+35 F-16s with this capability ( link16 data link )


Turkiye spent $5.4 billion for network centric warfare capability
-- 3.9 billion for CCIP modernization ( 163 F-16 with link16 data link )
-- 1.5 billion for buying 4 Boeing E-7T AEWC

even 250+ km SIPER Block2 air defense Missile will have network centric warfare capability via link-16 and Joint Range Extension Applications Protocol ( JREAP-C ) data links


Hellenic Air Force not even close

You should study Operation Swift Retort as well. Indians assumed that Su-30 MKI was the most advanced jet fighter in the region but PAF showed otherwise. PAF has F-16 Block 50 and Block 52+ in its inventory - these are much less capable than the latest F-16V.

Please dont compare pathetic Indian Air Force with MIG-21 and SU-30MKI


Btw Turkish Air Force trained Pakistani Air Force for BVR combat

good job

 

[LeGenD]

I said Greek F-16s dont have land attack Cruise Missiles
only 130 km JSOW glide Bomb .... nothing else

on the other hand
Turkish F-16s have 280 km SOM and SLAM-ER Cruise Missiles
also soon 150 km CAKIR and 180+ km KUZGUN-TJ land attack Cruise Missiles

also 130 km JSOW and 150+ km KGK-LR ( IIR seeker ) glide Bombs

and network enabled weapon SOM Cruise Missile via KEMENT tactical data link
View attachment 965865

Hellenic Armed Forces and MBDA Shook Hands for 6 Different Missile Systems | savunmahaber.com

Hellenic Naval Forces and Hellenic Air Force signed two different contracts with MBDA to procure 6 different missile systems for the needs of different platforms. Concept art of FDI HN class frigates…

www.savunmahaber.com

What ?

Greek F-16s dont have RF expendable decoy

Turkish F-16s with Havelsan EHSIM RF expendable decoy against RF guided Missiles for self defense
View attachment 965864

In addition, LACROIX teams are working on the Greek Air Force’s (Hellenic Air Force) programs for the overall protection of their fleet of fighter aircraft (including Mirage 2000 and F16), and of course for the acquisition program of 24 Rafales.

A well known aircraft from LACROIX pyrotechnician’s teams, since LACROIX specifically designed, in close collaboration with the French Ministry of the Armed Forces, the Rafale’s self-protection decoys against the latest generation of infrared threats.

Greece's New FDI Frigates to Feature Advanced Decoy Launchers - Naval News

At DEFEA 2023, LACROIX formally confirms the Hellenic Navy's choice to equip its new defence and intervention frigates (FDI HN) with the SYLENA MK1 decoy launching systems and associated ammunition.

www.navalnews.com

So funny

even now 60 Turkish F-16C ( CCIP modernized ) equipped with SPEWS-II EW Suite which was developed by Turkish ASELSAN and British BAE Systems

View attachment 965869


OZGUR-2 upgrade using advanced technology developed for KAAN 5th gen Fighter Jet

-- MURAD AESA Radar ( GaN technology with 1.000+ T/R modules )
-- FEWS next gen EW Suite

Yes, you are trying to catch up:

The Greek Air Force's purchase of 18 Rafale fighters from France and the modernization of the F-16V aircraft is an important step to change the balance of power in the region. The Rafale aircraft will be an important achievement for Greece, thanks to its AESA radar and IRST capabilities, as well as advanced Electronic Warfare and Electronic Support systems and Meteor long-range air-to-air missiles. It can also carry SCALP EG cruise missiles and AM39 Exocet anti-ship missiles in the inventory of the Greek Air Force. They will probably replace the aging Mirage 2000s with these aircraft. The commissioning of Rafales and 84 F-16V aircraft with AESA radars in the mid-2020s will greatly increase the Greek Air Force's capabilities. Especially if the F-35 JSF procurement is accomplished, which is frequently mentioned by defense industry experts, unfortunately, the balance between the two sides will be completely inverted.

Under the current political and economic conditions, it seems very difficult for Turkey to purchase new aircraft. Therefore, it is necessary to transfer all the available capabilities to the Hürjet and TF-X (Turkish Fighter) programs. We can say that there is a long and challenging road ahead in both development programs. In this period, it is crucial to modernize the F-16s to avoid any gaps, especially in the combat aircraft fleet. It is especially important to equip all aircraft with AESA radars and new Electronic Warfare equipment, starting with Block 30, which have been partially modernized via CCIP. On the other hand, it is extremely important to add our indigenously developed Low, Medium and High-Altitude Air Defense Systems into the inventory as soon as possible.

TWO SIDES OF THE AEGEAN MILITARY BALANCE OF TURKISH & GREEK AIR FORCES IN THE REGION

www.defenceturkey.com

The AN/APG-83 AESA LPI radar system found in the F-16V standard for reference:

The AN/ALQ-254(V)1 Viper Shield AIDEWS components found in the F-16V standard for reference:

Source: https://www.l3harris.com/sites/default/files/2020-08/l3harris-viper-shield-sell-sheet-sas.pdf

AN/APG-83 AESA LPI offers extensive EW/EP capability of its own and integration with next generation AN/ALQ-254(V)1 Viper Shield AIDEWS - a significant leap from the (combat-proven) AN/ALQ-211 AIDEWS that are in use in older F-16 Blocks around the world including Pakistan.

The AESA is being integrated with a new active and passive internal electronic warfare system (Viper Shield), which incorporate a new fully Digital Radar Warning Receiver (DRWR) designed to interface with the APG-83 radar.

Lockheed Martin Product Card

-----

Defence Turkey: In partnership with Lockheed Martin and the U.S. Air Force, L3 Harris has developed the Viper Shield AN/ALQ-254(V)1 All-digital Electronic Warfare (EW) suite for the F-16 Block 70/72 aircraft. Can you briefly inform our readers of the technical features of Viper Shield and ‘why’ and ‘how’ is it better than the AN/ALQ-211(V)4 Integrated Self-Defense System?

Andy DUNN: We have been developing Viper Shield in close partnership with Lockheed Martin and the U.S. Air Force. We are in an environment around the world in which threats are evolving at an unprecedented rate, including some we have not even imagined today. Viper Shield is a system designed to meet and defeat those threats directly today, tomorrow and whatever comes in the future.

Viper Shield’s software-defined technology components enable unprecedented digital radar threat warning and robust digital countermeasure capabilities in a fully integrated, internally mounted system. Its advanced digital radar warning receiver (DRWR) technology integrates seamlessly with the aircraft’s new APG-83 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar to deliver greater situational awareness. The digital radio frequency memory (DRFM)-based jamming system provides enhanced capability against advanced threats.

“Five Nations Around the World Have Committed to Viper Shield on their Advanced F-16 Aircraft”

In 2021 the Turkish Government submitted a Letter of Request (LoR) to the U.S. Government, for the procurement of 40 new-build F-16V Block 70 fighter jets and 79 upgrade kits for the modernization of 29 Block 50+ and 50 Block 40M aircraft to the Block 70 level in the Turkish Air Force (TurAF)...

www.defenceturkey.com

Following was NEWS in 2021:

CAES, provider of mission-critical electronic solutions, has been selected by L3Harris Technologies to develop radio frequency (RF) assemblies for its new Viper Shield all-digital electronic warfare (EW) suite.

It is 2023 now.

US has produced an even more advanced solution by now:

F-16 EW suite counters RF threats in U.S. Air Force test

Just pointing out the obvious.

-----

Turkish defense industry has a close working relationship with L3Harris company that has developed AN/ALQ-254(V)1 Viper Shield AIDEWS for the F-16V standard. You need to ask around how good L3 Harris is in this domain.

You needs more military knowledge to compare Hellenic Air Force with the Turkish Air Force


1 -- Greek Erieye EMB-145H AEW&C will be destroyed by 380 km S400 Air Defense Systems
Erieye EMB-145H AEW&C can not enter the game ...

2 -- Turkish Air Force Boeing E-7T AEWC has superior MESA Radar with range of 600+ km to detect Greek F-16V from 350+ km away even over Athens from Turkish airspace

and Greek PATRIOTs can not do anything against Turkish E7-T AEWCs


3 -- Network Centric Warfare with AEWC

Now Greece has only 30 F-16 Block 52+ Advanced Jets with this capability ( link16 data link )
( until 2028 , 84 F-16 block70 modernized Jets will have this capability with Link-16 TDL )

Turkiye has already 163+29+35 F-16s with this capability ( link16 data link )


Turkiye spent $5.4 billion for network centric warfare capability
-- 3.9 billion for CCIP modernization ( 163 F-16 with link16 data link )
-- 1.5 billion for buying 4 Boeing E-7T AEWC

even 250+ km SIPER Block2 air defense Missile will have network centric warfare capability via link-16 and Joint Range Extension Applications Protocol ( JREAP-C ) data links


Hellenic Air Force not even close

Hellenic Armed Forces and MBDA Shook Hands for 6 Different Missile Systems | savunmahaber.com

Hellenic Naval Forces and Hellenic Air Force signed two different contracts with MBDA to procure 6 different missile systems for the needs of different platforms. Concept art of FDI HN class frigates…

www.savunmahaber.com

SCALP EG cruise missile(s) can be used to attack and defeat S-400 systems among others in the region.

What an S-400 kill and a spec ops raid reveal about Ukraine's ability to hit Russia - Breaking Defense

According to Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Oleksiy Danilov, the Neptune preformed “flawlessly” during the Aug. 23 attack on a Russian Almaz-Antei S-400 “Triumf” air and missile defense complex.

breakingdefense.com

Please dont compare pathetic Indian Air Force with MIG-21 and SU-30MKI


Btw Turkish Air Force trained Pakistani Air Force for BVR combat

good job
View attachment 965871

Thank you.

An F-16 Block 50 armed with AIM-120C5 was sufficient to counter an Su-30 MKI armed with R-77 in aerial clashes on a technical level. However, on a broader level, some of the Su-30 MKI were able to evade AIM-120C5 and escape. Jet fighters have maneuverability and onboard defenses that can help in BVR engagement situations.

Turkish F-16s are armed with AIM-120C7 air-to-air missiles. AIM-120C5 and AIM-120C7 are comparable variants.

F-16V is such a big leap from Su-30 MKI that it is not even funny. Even your finest F-16 variant armed with your best air-to-air missile will be in grave danger when up against a threat like F-16V in aerial clashes.

I get one's optimism but you are talking about at NATO standard equipment, not inferior Russian equipment.

 

[LeGenD]

Greece will be nothing when all Turkish Weapons enter service ( until 2028 )



4 HAVASOJ stand of Jammer Aircraft ... ( only Israel and Turkiye in the region )
View attachment 965889
airborne variant of REDET-II Radar EW System
View attachment 965880
View attachment 965881


200+ km GOKHAN Ramjet powered long range air to air Missile
View attachment 965879


150+ km SIPER Block2 Air Defense Missile
250+ km SIPER Block2 Air Defense Missile with booster
View attachment 965884
View attachment 965904

also 192 S400 Air Defense Missiles already in inventory with range of 250-380 km
View attachment 965883

Great RADAR Network
View attachment 965888
View attachment 965886
View attachment 965887

200 OZGUR-2 modernized F-16 with MURAD AESA Radar and GOKHAN air to air Missile
View attachment 965885

20 KAAN Fighter Jets
View attachment 965892
View attachment 965891


Dozens of KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 unmanned stealth Fighter Jets
View attachment 965897
View attachment 965898
and 300+ UCAVs
View attachment 965900

500-700-800 km Kamikaze Drones
View attachment 965905
View attachment 965902
View attachment 965901

BORA-TAYFUN-CENK Ballistic Missiles to hit Airbases and Jet Hangars
View attachment 965906


Our rival is France in Syria , Libya , Caucasus and in the Eastern Mediterranean
but not tiny Greece

You continue to miss the point for some reason. You do not seem to understand how your enemy is arming itself to counter your options on a technical level and its strategy in the grand scheme of things.

 

[MMM-E]

SCALP EG cruise missile(s) can be used to attack and defeat S-400 systems among others in the region.

Nahhhhh

Turkish KORKUT , HISAR-A/O , GURZ and GOKDEMIR easly can intercept low speed SCALP Missile to protect S400s

 

[LeGenD]

Nahhhhh

Turkish KORKUT , HISAR-A/O , GURZ and GOKDEMIR easly can intercept low speed SCALP Missile to protect S400s
View attachment 965912
View attachment 965914
View attachment 965913
View attachment 965911
View attachment 965915

IN THEORY - not proven or shown.

Russia had also linked S-400 systems to other air defense systems but:

The S-400 was protected by a short range air defense (SHORAD) KBP Tula Pantsir-S1/2 (SA-22) that was supposed to have been datalinked to the S-400’s radar. However, both the S-400 and Pantsir radars appear to have failed to detect the Neptune, and the SHORAD system was not able to bring it down. This mirrors an episode from earlier this summer when a Pantsir was unable to bring down MBDA Storm Shadow missiles even at point blank range. Moscow has lost at least 18 Pantsir units since the beginning of the war, per open source tracking.

SCALP EG is a stealthy design and can engage targets in passive mode:

A senior Ukrainian designer, briefed on the Aug. 23 attack, told Breaking Defense that “the seeker was switched into the passive mode for this strike. There were also modifications made to incorporate digital scene matching into the guidance system.” This is a similar capability to targeting technology on-board the MBDA Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG and the Lockheed Martin JASSM missiles — once in terminal phase, the imaging mode of the seeker compares the target area with pre-loaded digital scenery and continues on to target if the two are consistent with one another.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

first-look, first-shot, first-kill capability
Even 50 km is impressive when you realize the KAAN and KIZILELMA have already killed the 4th gen Fighters F-16V and RAFALE a couple of times before you visually detect them

US,India may be China also are working on air-to-air combat UAVs/Loyal Wingmans for their 4th Generation Fighter Jets
These are lot more cheaper/mass produceable/risk free than KIZIL-ELMA.
US long-shot program:
The objective of the LongShot program is to disrupt the paradigm of air combat operations by demonstrating an unmanned air-launched vehicle capable of employing current air-to-air weapons, significantly increasing engagement range and mission effectiveness. The program will design, fabricate, and flight test a demonstration system to prove the feasibility of the LongShot concept.
This drone design by General Atomics will probably be finalized:

From Breaking Defence:
"Innovative drone design is very much on the forefront of Pentagon leaders at the moment, following the announcement by Deputy Secretary of Defense Kath Hicks of her “Replicator” effort, which seeks to acquire thousands of drones across multiple domains in the next 18-24 months."

American approach is cost effective & mass production based when it comes to air to air combat drones while Turkey is following a risky and expensive approach in this domain.Time will tell who is right or both can be right depending upon the rivals they face.
Personally i like US approach.

 

[MMM-E]

You continue to miss the point for some reason. You do not seem to understand how your enemy is arming itself to counter your options on a technical level and its strategy in the grand scheme of things.

And You dont understand what is coming
Türkiye increase its defense budget to $40 billion to kick some azzez in the region


Superior Air Defense Systems S400 and SIPER B2
You only showing old technology F-16V and RAFALE which are even easy target for 250+ km SIPER Block2 air Defense Missiles

Greece will have 84 F-16V and 24 RAFALE until 2028
Turkiye modernize 200 F-16s with the latest technologies including MURAD AESA Radar and 200+ km GOKHAN air to air Missile

also latest technology 450+ km ERALP AESA Radar enter service

also 4 Boeing E-7T AEWCs in service with 600 km MESA Radar

Great fire power
We can destroy 24 RAFALE Jets even in Jet Hangars at Tanagra Air Base
Thanks to Turkish Ballistic and Cruise Missiles

Stealth Platforms
Even only KIZILELMA Block2 will be enough to turn F-16V and RAFALE into scrap of metal

F-16V and RAFALE are old technology pathetic platforms with 1 m2 of RCS

KIZILELMA can engage on F-16V and RAFALE from 90km awaybefore they detect KIZILELMA on their radars and GAME OVER

also there will be 2 x TF-10000 turbofan engined Block2 variant of KIZILELMA

Even I am not talking about 20 KAAN Fighter Jets in 2028

and ANKA-3 stealth UCAV for deep strike SEAD/DEAD role

Turkiye is in World's top 5 for EW technologies
and only Turkiye-Israel in the region ..... Greece not even close

4 HAVASOJ stand of Jammer Aircraft

REDET-II Radar Electronic Warfare System

Turkish F-16s equipped with SPEWS-II EW suite and MEHPOD Jamming Pod
and new FEWS EW Suite for OZGUR-2 upgrade


Game changer role of Kamikaze Drones and UCAVs
Greece will be nothing when all Turkish weapons enter service year by year until 2028

evn 250-500-700-800 km Kamikaze Drones will be enough to hit everything in Greece

cost effective and lethal solution

and 300+ UCAVs

Greece never can match with upcoming Turkish military power .. NEVER

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Turkish KORKUT , HISAR-A/O , GURZ and GOKDEMIR easly can intercept low speed SCALP Missile to protect S400s

S-400 is already a complete system in its own.It can fire Missiles from 40km to 400km range.

 

[MMM-E]

SCALP EG is a stealthy design and can engage targets in passive mode:

SCALP-EG is low speed missile .. so easy to intercept it


even AKINCI UCAV armed with 8 GOKDOGAN air to air Missiles can detect and intercept SCALP-EG missiles

Turkiye create air based defense concept with AKINCI UCAVs to protect critical facilities and AD Systems during a war


SCALP-EG maybe can hide from some land based Radars
but Boeing E-7T AEWC and AKINCI UCAV can detect SCALP EG Missiles from long distance

MURAD AESA Radar was integrated into AKINCI UCAV to stay in the air for 24 hours as a mini AEWC

and soon to carry 8 GOKDOGAN air to air Missiles

S-400 is already a complete system in its own.It can fire Missiles from 40km to 400km range.

Turkiye bought S400 for A2/AD capability against Fighter Jets , AEWC , Bombers

Turkiye has 5 different AD Systems to protect S400s from Cruise Missiles

KORKUT
SUNGUR
HISAR-A/O
GURZ
GOKDEMIR

 

[GriffinsRule]

from what I've heard, Özgür upgrade is actually coming with a radar that is more powerful than on the F-16V. They are talking over 1000 T/R modules all GaN based.

I don't think the reason for wanting the F-16 Block 70 is just the radar. We just need more airframes.

Yes but can only be used in a very limited number of their block 30 aircraft, and most of their fleet in block 40/50.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

F-16 never fought against modern Air Forces

One correction: the PAF F-16s were pitched against the IAF SU-30s during the air skirmishes in 2019. All were under their respective EW coverages. Please note that the IAF SU-30s were heavily modified with the Israeli technologies. Yet, the IAF SU-30s couldn't lock a single PAF F-16. On the other hand, the PAF-16s could lock all of them, and one got shot down for the Pak High Command didn't want to accelerate it further.....

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Turkiye bought S400 for A2/AD capability against Fighter Jets , AEWC , Bombers

Turkiye has 5 different AD Systems to protect S400s from Cruise Missiles

KORKUT
SUNGUR
HISAR-A/O
GURZ
GOKDEMIR

So your all cruise missiles have a low speed

 

[Foinikas]

This thread is becoming very interesting with Legend's detailed information and comparisons.

Three screenshots that I like to point out that prove MMM-E's arguments are basically...big words and the usual boasting:

So basically,MMM-E's arguments can be boiled down to one phrase: "Is coming..."

Again,the usual ficticious,theoretical stats and superiority of systems that haven't even been finished,tested or put in mass production yet.

Disregarding of course the fact that Russian S-400s have proven completely unable to cooperate with their own Russian SHORADs,he thinks that they will be perfectly linked to NATO and Turkish-made systems.

Yes,Americans haven't given us or maybe we haven't asked yet,any of the most modern AIM-120 versions,however,the missile inventory that we have for the F-16s and the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.II and the Rafale,is excellent for the Aegean.

And like @LeGenD and @White and Green with M/S have pointed out,you can't really shoot down an F-16 from 200km away. Even close to that,the missile would have already lost a lot of momentum and fuel to keep manuevering.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

This thread is becoming very interesting with Legend's detailed information and comparisons.

Three screenshots that I like to point out that prove MMM-E's arguments are basically...big words and the usual boasting:

View attachment 966023

View attachment 966024View attachment 966025


So basically,MMM-E's arguments can be boiled down to one phrase: "Is coming..."

Again,the usual ficticious,theoretical stats and superiority of systems that haven't even been finished,tested or put in mass production yet.

Disregarding of course the fact that Russian S-400s have proven completely unable to cooperate with their own Russian SHORADs,he thinks that they will be perfectly linked to NATO and Turkish-made systems.

Yes,Americans haven't given us or maybe we haven't asked yet,any of the most modern AIM-120 versions,however,the missile inventory that we have for the F-16s and the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.II and the Rafale,is excellent for the Aegean.

And like @LeGenD and @White and Green with M/S have pointed out,you can't really shoot down an F-16 from 200km away. Even close to that,the missile would have already lost a lot of momentum and fuel to keep manuevering.

@MME always boasts senselessly brother

 

[LegionnairE]

LMAO! You are such a moron that you don't even understand sarcasm. AzadPakistan post was political & sarcastic in nature and you not surprisingly you acted exactly as a pathetic turkish salesman.

According to this pathetic turkish salesman:
Hurjet is same as JF-17,
Turkish tractors are better than Tanks

and perhaps if someone talks about Pakistani nuclear capability, pathetically he will claim some shittiest Turkish bomb saying that is more powerful than nukes. If someone talks about Shaheen OR Ababeel 2700 km multi-war head launch vehicles, he will again bring something to compare. You're just a cheap salesman, who is full of bias, bringing your shittiest products on every related / non-related topics that proven by you throwing turkish tractor photo instantly on a sarcastic post.

You are such a LOSER who could not reply a single argument when I proved that Hurjet is a purpose built trainer, its never going to be likes of Gripens or JF-17s. it can never survive air-combat against a purpose built combat aircraft, Yes it may shoot down helicopters or UAVs. BUT IT CAN NEVER SURVIVE 5 seconds in front of fighter combats, No capacity to do dog-fights, no ability to reach high altitude, high velocity to release BVR missiles with impactful energy. Losers like you when Clueless and shameless become abusive. As I said earlier, I am going to keep you under a leash now.


This Leggionnaire guy shamelessly claimed in the other thread that he has sources inside navy which told his sorry azz that Pakistani naval ship officers has said that build quality of turkish ships is much better than chinese ships. LMAO! What a loser!, In every threat and in every post he is leaving his cheapness all over the place. Pakistani navy commanders have equated latest chinese frigates with any modern day warships and on record. Losers like you construct lies to somehow bring your own products and compare it with just anything. I wasn't even against your country's products but I can't stand a cheap person who compares his country's trainers with other's combat aircrafts.

I don't even read this stuff, why do you keep bothering me?

Yes but can only be used in a very limited number of their block 30 aircraft, and most of their fleet in block 40/50.

We'll see, if it's successful, it might be applied to more aricraft. But the radar alone doesn't close the gap left by the loss of F-35