Turkish Air Defence Programs

[UkroTurk]

Which parts of it "will" be better than S400, Russians have always been good at making rockets, so I'm very interested in knowing how we're going to do better.

Beside the rocket fuel SAM systems also have another components such as Radars, electronics, chips, software, detection and capacities.

 

[Oublious]

So the Spanish are going to pulling ther Patriots back and Italians ther SAMP. I am really happy we did let the F35 go and buy theS-400. And againg we should speed the national SAM project.

 

[cabatli_53]

Which parts of it "will" be better than S400, Russians have always been good at making rockets, so I'm very interested in knowing how we're going to do better.

We will see which part of new SAM will be better than S-400. Maybe Hybrid seeker head or DAS system (If This capability will be gained with this program) for exoathmospheric capability and altitude ranges will be the sides that make it superior than S-400.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/gundem/milli-hava-savunma-sistemi-siper-6045784?espv=1

I dont think so . I'm Waiting From Siper min 120 km range max 150 km range. At this point ofcourse officall will say not real capability of the missile like hisar-a , Hisar-O project.

First Siper is a diffrent story from Hisar Series. Siper Concept is a design we see and copy from aster series.

As you know French's first make Mica Bvr and Ir missiles after that add him a little launch booster and make aster-15 and add him stage booster and make base aster-30 with many other improvements.

So we doing bozdoğan bvr missile who have range 65 km officall.

İf you launch a air to air missile from surface his range will decrase generally 3/2. (will you see it vl mica and land launched aim-120c ) of course many other thinks can change little that but generally like that.

We launch bozdoğan first from land as you know; https://www.gaste24.com/images/upload/8_5.jpg And I'm think we reach to 21 km I think.

And after that we doublize the fuel section and make Siper-G 40 From the bozdoğan who showed ide 2019 ;

Look at him he's not for researched medium range we have already hisar-o . They developed for the first stage of the Siper missile. Okey he will usable like Medium range alone.

But look at him he have no launch booster (İf they have him he can launch far away. )

Now look oficall infographic siper . He clearly Stage boostered version of G-40 or Bozdoğan. Also ı' m think Siper-G 40 means Siper'in Gövdesi -40 km menzilli
So

with our 3/2 scale , if you launch siper g-40 from air like bvr missile he can be reach 120 km range. And if our stage booster (not like launch boosters) reach him the same conditions (altitude and speed) him for the level of like aircraft launch him and deattach him he will clearly reach 120 km . Thrust me Even 1 or 2 Old nike hercules first stage boosters enough for him .


Of course we need improve bozdoğan link capability and radar if we want active radar guide behalf of semi active radar guide (I'dont think for this level) , also finish eirs and çafrad for full family air defence system . That's only easy way to finish a long range air defence system .


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Hisar-U /Hisar Gums is a diffrent story . They aim a more advanced active radar guided and anti balistic missiles.

Maybe Hisar-u will 70-90 km ranged booster(who used on siper system) used version of hisar-O . He can be reach 75 km from air to air launch but he will fly around 90 km because he will less weight than siper core section.

And of course will be good around level choice for againts fighters.


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And at the end all of thats MY EXPECTAİTONS.......

 

[UzaySan]

I dont think so . I'm Waiting From Siper min 120 km range max 150 km range. At this point ofcourse officall will say not real capability of the missile like hisar-a , Hisar-O project.

First Siper is a diffrent story from Hisar Series. Siper Concept is a design we see and copy from aster series.

As you know French's first make Mica Bvr and Ir missiles after that add him a little launch booster and make aster-15 and add him stage booster and make base aster-30 with many other improvements.

So we doing bozdoğan bvr missile who have range 65 km officall.

İf you launch a air to air missile from surface his range will decrase generally 3/2. (will you see it vl mica and land launched aim-120c ) of course many other thinks can change little that but generally like that.

We launch bozdoğan first from land as you know; https://www.gaste24.com/images/upload/8_5.jpg And I'm think we reach to 21 km I think.

And after that we doublize the fuel section and make Siper-G 40 From the bozdoğan who showed ide 2019 ;

Look at him he's not for researched medium range we have already hisar-o . They developed for the first stage of the Siper missile. Okey he will usable like Medium range alone.

But look at him he have no launch booster (İf they have him he can launch far away. )

Now look oficall infographic siper . He clearly Stage boostered version of G-40 or Bozdoğan. Also ı' m think Siper-G 40 means Siper'in Gövdesi -40 km menzilli
So

with our 3/2 scale , if you launch siper g-40 from air like bvr missile he can be reach 120 km range. And if our stage booster (not like launch boosters) reach him the same conditions (altitude and speed) him for the level of like aircraft launch him and deattach him he will clearly reach 120 km . Thrust me Even 1 or 2 Old nike hercules first stage boosters enough for him .


Of course we need improve bozdoğan link capability and radar if we want active radar guide behalf of semi active radar guide (I'dont think for this level) , also finish eirs and çafrad for full family air defence system . That's only easy way to finish a long range air defence system .


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hisar-U /Hisar Gums is a diffrent story . They aim a more advanced active radar guided and anti balistic missiles.

Maybe Hisar-u will 70-90 km ranged booster(who used on siper system) used version of hisar-O . He can be reach 75 km from air to air launch but he will fly around 90 km because he will less weight than siper core section.

And of course will be good around level choice for againts fighters.


---------------------------------------

And at the end all of thats MY EXPECTAİTONS.......

You may be right. I just repeated what defence minister said.

 

[Faith_of_the_Fallen]

Is it me or it is under an angle what would mean we have not achieved vertical launching capability. Any one on the subject with more info?

Vertical launch is not applied for safety reasons regarding warhead, from what i heard;since they want to decrease the probability of unfortunate accidents if any unexpected problem arises during the firing. It does not matter technically, what the launch angle is; even though the press heavily puts emphasis on it for some reason. They do fire at different launch angles due to other matters regarding staff and test equipment; the system is designed to be used vertically for 360 degree effectiveness.

 

[Ruhnama]

Yes my friend. Different from Siper, There is another ongoing “long altitude long range” program which is said to be better than S-400. Up to 30km altitude and 120km range, Siper will be on charge but New program will have capability to engage the targets beyond 30km altitudes. Most probably, It will have exoathmospheric engagement capability with Aselsan made 4 axis divert and attitude control mechanism and hybrid seeker head (Rf+IIR)

And SAMP/T licensed is for what? Siper development? Or this what called another ongoing “long altitude long range” program

And s400 for the stop gap?

Btw are mim hawk still active?

 

[cabatli_53]

And SAMP/T licensed is for what? Siper development? Or this what called another ongoing “long altitude long range” program

And s400 for the stop gap?

Btw are mim hawk still active?

I think EuroSam and Turkey signed deal to prepare a feasibility study in order to realize whether the requirements described for ongoing Turkish and European SaM programs meets eachother’s parameters (for a likely partnership) envisaged for final products and No decision is announced yet. I believe What Turkey wants is an anti-ballistic missile defense system like THAAD in Long altitude Long range program. If Europe can not provide such a tech, No need to proceed negotiations with them since Turkey has already been developing own system-Siper- which is going to be ranked in similar league with Pac-3 and Aster-30. If they put a condition like “firstly procure Aster-30 Block1NT If you want to be a partner of Aster Block-2 missiles”, We may think about it.

 

[what]

No more Cruise Missiles such as SCALP-EG , TOMAHAWK , MdCN will be threat to Turkey because of HISAR-A Air Defense System is ready for mass production

Can anybody tell me how true that is, because Patriots sure did not manage to catch the Yemeni cruise missiles fired at Saudi Arabia a couple weeks ago. What should make Hisar-A different? Someone please explain, because I dont know much about missile defence.

 

[cabatli_53]

Can anybody tell me how true that is, because Patriots sure did not manage to catch the Yemeni cruise missiles fired at Saudi Arabia a couple weeks ago. What should make Hisar-A different? Someone please explain, because I dont know much about missile defence.

Cruise missiles/kamikaze drones are relatively small targets so it is difficult to detect them from long distances. Besides, they are following the ground terrain not to be detected. Like all other missiles, the PAC-3 has min and max effective range scales so, If you allow cruise missile/drone to enter the range near the minimum effective range of your missile batteries, They cannot shot targets effectively, so Long range missiles must be supported by low altitude batteries under a network centric concept.

 

[Ruhnama]

I think EuroSam and Turkey signed deal to prepare a feasibility study in order to realize whether the requirements described for ongoing Turkish and European SaM programs meets eachother’s parameters (for a likely partnership) envisaged for final products and No decision is announced yet. I believe What Turkey wants is an anti-ballistic missile defense system like THAAD in Long altitude Long range program. If Europe can not provide such a tech, No need to proceed negotiations with them since Turkey has already been developing own system-Siper- which is going to be ranked in similar league with Pac-3 and Aster-30. If they put a condition like “firstly procure Aster-30 Block1NT If you want to be a partner of Aster Block-2 missiles”, We may think about it.

So turkish didnt by samp/t but only take some parameter and some design from samp/t system? Maybe this new turkish anti balistic system take some part or sensor etc from samp/t. Is like that?

How about the missile? Take from aster 30 design?

(It seems like turkish take k2 tank design to make altay)

As I remember KSA use pac 2 to guard their oil field

 

[UkroTurk]

Can anybody tell me how true that is, because Patriots sure did not manage to catch the Yemeni cruise missiles fired at Saudi Arabia a couple weeks ago. What should make Hisar-A different? Someone please explain, because I dont know much about missile defence.

İf the KSA had S400 systems, S400 wouldnt have caught a cruise missile which flaw at very low altitude. Geographic area gives opportunity missiles to be hidden. Shortly Don't trust big radars with 400km range if your enemies have cruise missiles. Because Earth is not flat moreover there are some mountains and hills. Your air defense umbrella will always have some gaps.
That's why Russians have TOR and Pantsir systems.
İ would say Hisar A is equal to TOR system.

 

[MMM-E]

Can anybody tell me how true that is, because Patriots sure did not manage to catch the Yemeni cruise missiles fired at Saudi Arabia a couple weeks ago. What should make Hisar-A different? Someone please explain, because I dont know much about missile defence.

PATRIOT to protect against ballistic missiles that arc high up into the exoatmosphere at immense speeds and long distances

Cruise missiles can be detected by radar, but they tend to have small radar signatures and can fly close to the ground, sharply reducing the detection range and thus opportunities to fire on cruise missiles from far away

so as like HISAR-A short range defenses that protect against targets within visual range are so important


also long range air defense missiles are too expensive to use against certain cheap but numerous threats
therefore HISAR-A and KORKUT SPAAG will protect S-400 from cruise missiles and kamikaze drone attacks


Defenses against salvos of modern cruise missiles require a network of sensors that can detect low flying and possibly low observable threats and HISAR-A , KORKUT SPAAG targets cruise missiles within visual range

 

[UkroTurk]

Against cruise missiles behind the 60km range even xband radars are blind....If topography of country is not flat like Turkey it will be very hard to detect. That's why Israelis f16s can outsmart radars in Syria.

We could start thinking about over the horizon type radars in order to control mountain areas.

Edit:
@mete Bro read my words one more time.

i forgot the bad weather conditions. Storm effects on radar waves

 

[mete]

Against cruise missiles behind the 60km range even xband radars are blind....If topography of country is not flat like Turkey it will be very hard to detect. That's why Israelis f16s can outsmart radars in Syria.
View attachment 583840
View attachment 583841


We could start thinking about over the horizon type radars in order to control mountain areas.
View attachment 583847

I think you tried to say the opposite. Turkey is one of the least flat countries in the world. Entire country is consisted of 2 basic mountain ridges at north and sounth and there are even more mounteins inbetween.