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Turkic speaking countries might create free trade zone

What we're not invited to the Party ? I feel so unloved & unwanted ! :cray:



Most of the Silk Road runs through Pakistan - And you didn't even bother to include us....I thought we were brothers ! :cry:

No offence :)

Did your mother ever told you that you were a very, very , very needy and attention wanting when you were a child?
 
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No offence :)

Did your mother ever told you that you were a very, very , very needy and attention wanting when you were a child?

450x359_1341-laughing_baby.jpg
 
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Central Asia is a very progressive region. I always wondered why Turkey doesn't concentrate on central Asia. Turkey can easily become the big boss of the region. And what about joining SCO?
 
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What we're not invited to the Party ? I feel so unloved & unwanted ! :cray:



Most of the Silk Road runs through Pakistan - And you didn't even bother to include us....I thought we were brothers ! :cry:
Tell your president that Turkish should be mandatory in schools and maybe over couple of generations you can join a Turkish union :p

Central Asia is a very progressive region. I always wondered why Turkey doesn't concentrate on central Asia. Turkey can easily become the big boss of the region. And what about joining SCO?

according to Davutoglu Turkey is focusing on all directions.. balkan, africa, mid-east and central asia..

But the truth is that Davutoglu is sacrificing Turkic interest for his idiotic policies. Just look at what is happening to Turkmen in Iraq and what shape there are in, they are getting massacred and Turkey is doing nothing.

Look what they try to do in Cyprus.. Turkey is willing to turn their back on Cypriot Turks for EU accession.

And many other examples..

God, with the day my hatred for AKP mindset is growing.
 
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What we're not invited to the Party ? I feel so unloved & unwanted ! :cray:



Most of the Silk Road runs through Pakistan - And you didn't even bother to include us....I thought we were brothers ! :cry:
Bro i would say Pakistan could propably be the only non Turkic country that could join a future Turkic union, but you have to be more secular we are not in middle ages anymore. :tup:

I dont know why but Pakistanis love Turkey so much and Turks also love Pakistan.
Can anyone explain me this? I mean Pakistan was not in ottoman empire so we had no historic association.
It cant be only religion.


Here is a Pakistani coin with Ottoman Tughra, or at least inspired from Ottoman Tughra.


Pakistani_one_rupee_coin%2Creverse.JPG
 
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I dont know why but Pakistanis love Turkey so much and Turks also love Pakistan.
Can anyone explain me this? I mean Pakistan was not in ottoman empire so we had no historic association.
It cant be only religion.
Pakistani were under Moghul (Turkic) Empire. Actually if Moghuls didn't conquer India then Pakistani would be just Indian.

Another reason: Pakistani like Turks today because Turkey is the most powerful Muslim nation today. That is also why Bosniak like Turks while they are not ethnic Turk.
 
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Pakistani were under Moghul (Turkic) Empire. Actually if Moghuls didn't conquer India then Pakistani would be just Indian.

Another reason: Pakistani like Turks today is because Turkey is the most powerful Muslim nation today. That is also why Bosniak like Turks while they are not ethnic Turk.
This could be one reason but i want to hear it from pakistanis.
 
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Bro i would say Pakistan could propably be the only non Turkic country that could join a future Turkic union, but you have to be more secular we are not in middle ages anymore. :tup:

I dont know why but Pakistanis love Turkey so much and Turks also love Pakistan.
Can anyone explain me this? I mean Pakistan was not in ottoman empire so we had no historic association.
It cant be only religion.


Here is a Pakistani coin with Ottoman Tughra, or at least inspired from Ottoman Tughra.


Pakistani_one_rupee_coin%2Creverse.JPG
There is a thread here on PDF about Pakistani-Turkish relations and why we are brothers you should check it out.
 
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@xenon54 - Pakistanis love & admire Turkey for many...many things & why ? Because you are Turks ! :)

Does it need an explanation beyond that ? :)

As for Secularism - Pakistanis don't support that ! We want a Pluralistic Society where if we want some Islamic Paradigm to be Institutionalized through the Democratic Process - We have that right ! But at the same time Non-Muslims & Secular Muslim Pakistanis enjoy the same rights & privileges & have the same obligations as every other Pakistani - A true, pluralistic Democracy in the purest sense of the word - No Secularism, No Islamism - No nothing of the sort !


That was exactly the dream that was dreamt by Pakistan's founding father Muhammad Ali Jinnah & Pakistan's National Poet - Muhammad Iqbal - Both of whom were admirers & supporters of Turkey & Ataturk !

Unfortunately that dream got hijacked by the same Religious Clerics who opposed Pakistan's creation to begin with & then when the country was created they came here & after the death of Pakistan's founding father (a year after Pakistan's creation) they began their BSh*tting !

The reason I think we love each other is because, Indian Muslims (in British India when there wasn't a Pakistan or India), pressurized the Government that the only they'd be willing to join the British Indian Army & fight for the British Empire is if we are guaranteed that Turkey will not be harmed !

The British then reneged on that promise & when they were told about their previous promise, the British PM or Viceroy (I forget whom) replied that 'Germany has had justice...Austria had justice....terrible justice...why should Turkey be spared' & then they went on to butchering the entire Ottoman Empire into little bits & pieces till Ataturk stopped them at Gallipoli !

I've also heard numerous times that the Muslims from British India sent money & gold & sometimes even men to Turkey in her fight for Independence. In fact during the Khilafat (Caliphate) Movement most of the Indian Muslims (including some who went on to becoming some of the most ardent supporters of Pakistan) opposed the British so much that they threatened to migrate from British India to Muslim Lands as protest.

Many Indian Muslims followed their call, sold away everything & left for Afghanistan only to be told by the Afghans to foOk off ! They came back with nothing & were left with nowhere to go.

That was one of the reasons why Pakistan's founding father opposed the Khilafat Movement because it lacked foresight & unison & any plan whatsoever but the passion was there !

And then on the 14th of August, 1947 these Indian Muslims (around 70-80 million of a total 100 million Indian Muslims) created a separate country for themselves called Pakistan !

Thats why Pakistan & Turkey share such a strong bound - We stood for you, our ancestors (those 80 million) stood for you because you were Muslims & because it pained us to no end that the only Muslim Superpower in the world was back stabbed by Muslims (Arabs) & the Western Powers despite Britain agreeing not to harm Turkey !

My Grandpa was in the British Indian Army & he served in the Second World War in the Middle Eastern & Post-Rommel North African theater. He used to tell me that there were rumors in the British Indian Army that during the First World War many Muslim soldiers refused to fight against the Ottoman Empire - I dunno how true or otherwise it is but hey...he was in the British Indian Army.

But it could be true for after all on the call of Pakistan's founding father, about 300 or so Muslim soldiers in the British Indian Army posted in Indonesia sided with the Indonesian Resistance & fought against the Dutch to help win Indonesia's freedom ! The Indonesian even gave some of them Awards & even gave Pakistan's founding Father Muhammad Ali Jinnah their Highest Award for his call to the Muslim Soldiers to join Indonesia's War of Independence ! :)
 
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Pakistani were under Moghul (Turkic) Empire. Actually if Moghuls didn't conquer India then Pakistani would be just Indian.

Another reason: Pakistani like Turks today because Turkey is the most powerful Muslim nation today. That is also why Bosniak like Turks while they are not ethnic Turk.

Oh please we could nuke you 10 times over & not break a sweat ! :kiss3:
 
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Pakistani were under Moghul (Turkic) Empire. Actually if Moghuls didn't conquer India then Pakistani would be just Indian.

Another reason: Pakistani like Turks today because Turkey is the most powerful Muslim nation today. That is also why Bosniak like Turks while they are not ethnic Turk.
Onlar bizi biz oldugumuz icin seviyor,gucle alakasi yok.
Check out the thread about Pakistan-Turkey relationship.
 
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@xenon54 - Pakistanis love & admire Turkey for many...many things & why ? Because you are Turks ! :)

Does it need an explanation beyond that ? :)

As for Secularism - Pakistanis don't support that ! We want a Pluralistic Society where if we want some Islamic Paradigm to be Institutionalized through the Democratic Process - We have that right ! But at the same time Non-Muslims & Secular Muslim Pakistanis enjoy the same rights & privileges & have the same obligations as every other Pakistani - A true, pluralistic Democracy in the purest sense of the word - No Secularism, No Islamism - No nothing of the sort !


That was exactly the dream that was dreamt by Pakistan's founding father Muhammad Ali Jinnah & Pakistan's National Poet - Muhammad Iqbal - Both of whom were admirers & supporters of Turkey & Ataturk !

Unfortunately that dream got hijacked by the same Religious Clerics who opposed Pakistan's creation to begin with & then when the country was created they came here & after the death of Pakistan's founding father (a year after Pakistan's creation) they began their BSh*tting !

The reason I think we love each other is because, Indian Muslims (in British India when there wasn't a Pakistan or India), pressurized the Government that the only they'd be willing to join the British Indian Army & fight for the British Empire is if we are guaranteed that Turkey will not be harmed !

The British then reneged on that promise & when they were told about their previous promise, the British PM or Viceroy (I forget whom) replied that 'Germany has had justice...Austria had justice....terrible justice...why should Turkey be spared' & then they went on to butchering the entire Ottoman Empire into little bits & pieces till Ataturk stopped them at Gallipoli !

I've also heard numerous times that the Muslims from British India sent money & gold & sometimes even men to Turkey in her fight for Independence. In fact during the Khilafat (Caliphate) Movement most of the Indian Muslims (including some who went on to becoming some of the most ardent supporters of Pakistan) opposed the British so much that they threatened to migrate from British India to Muslim Lands as protest.

Many Indian Muslims followed their call, sold away everything & left for Afghanistan only to be told by the Afghans to foOk off ! They came back with nothing & were left with nowhere to go.

That was one of the reasons why Pakistan's founding father opposed the Khilafat Movement because it lacked foresight & unison & any plan whatsoever but the passion was there !

And then on the 14th of August, 1947 these Indian Muslims (around 70-80 million of a total 100 million Indian Muslims) created a separate country for themselves called Pakistan !

Thats why Pakistan & Turkey share such a strong bound - We stood for you, our ancestors (those 80 million) stood for you because you were Muslims & because it pained us to no end that the only Muslim Superpower in the world was back stabbed by Muslims (Arabs) & the Western Powers despite Britain agreeing not to harm Turkey !

My Grandpa was in the British Indian Army & he served in the Second World War in the Middle Eastern & Post-Rommel North African theater. He used to tell me that there were rumors in the British Indian Army that during the First World War many Muslim soldiers refused to fight against the Ottoman Empire - I dunno how true or otherwise it is but hey...he was in the British Indian Army.

But it could be true for after all on the call of Pakistan's founding father, about 300 or so Muslim soldiers in the British Indian Army posted in Indonesia sided with the Indonesian Resistance & fought against the Dutch to help win Indonesia's freedom ! The Indonesian even gave some of them Awards & even gave Pakistan's founding Father Muhammad Ali Jinnah their Highest Award for his call to the Muslim Soldiers to join Indonesia's War of Independence ! :)

Many of your facts are wrong... more than 700 muslim soldiers (from modern day Pakistan)... on the call of Jinnah revolted and joined the indonesians... only a few came back home... rest were martyred..

Muslm soldiers also revolted and didnt fight the ottoman army... (i think Pak-One) provided documents n sources in some other thread...

Read about the Khilafat movement lead by prominent leaders like Jinnah,Jouhar,junejo etc...
People collect funds,sent docs etc... even soldiers to fight for Turkiye...even my great grandfather n granfather participated in the khilafat movement..

Also i found this document abt Occupied british indian muslims(Modern day Pakistan) red crescent societys AID to the Ottoman state during the 1912 Balkan war (by Turkish author):


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...5YCgCA&usg=AFQjCNHiVu5kYzEO83XMwvvCyDnxjDycPQ


Pakistani were under Moghul (Turkic) Empire. Actually if Moghuls didn't conquer India then Pakistani would be just Indian.

Not really... back than we had seperate kingdoms/states ruled by our own kings etc... who paid tribute to the british occupiers... and yes we also have people of turkish origin.. but yes they arent a majority.. and no we werent indians......learn about our "Ethnic groups"... although we do have 8% people who migrated from indian states during 47... but even they claim to have Pakistani origin or of our regional ethnic groups.. well many do..

Another reason: Pakistani like Turks today because Turkey is the most powerful Muslim nation today. That is also why Bosniak like Turks while they are not ethnic Turk.

Seriously?but yes we are happy to see you prosper.. and we like you because ur Turk... nothing to do with "power"...
 
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@xenon54 - Pakistanis love & admire Turkey for many...many things & why ? Because you are Turks ! :)

Does it need an explanation beyond that ? :)

As for Secularism - Pakistanis don't support that ! We want a Pluralistic Society where if we want some Islamic Paradigm to be Institutionalized through the Democratic Process - We have that right ! But at the same time Non-Muslims & Secular Muslim Pakistanis enjoy the same rights & privileges & have the same obligations as every other Pakistani - A true, pluralistic Democracy in the purest sense of the word - No Secularism, No Islamism - No nothing of the sort !

That was exactly the dream that was dreamt by Pakistan's founding father Muhammad Ali Jinnah & Pakistan's National Poet - Muhammad Iqbal - Both of whom were admirers & supporters of Turkey & Ataturk !

Unfortunately that dream got hijacked by the same Religious Clerics who opposed Pakistan's creation to begin with & then when the country was created they came here & after the death of Pakistan's founding father (a year after Pakistan's creation) they began their BSh*tting !

First of all thx for you time and answer.

This is the main problem with religious states, its really easy for clerics to hijack it, and people will allow it only because they believe them, just like Iran.

Its your own decision what type of a state you want but also in a secular and democratic country you could be muslims and do what your religion wants from you.
The only difference is that you would be free to be who you are, you could use the full potential of yourself and your country.
I mean look what happened to Malala she could be the next president of Pakistan, i know it has nothing to do with State but its the perfect place for taliban if people follow their rules only because they claim to be Muslim Warriors.

I think Iran and Pakistan have some smart brains under their citizens but they cant release their full potential.

But this is just my Opinion.
 
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First of all thx for you time and answer.

This is the main problem with religious states, its really easy for clerics to hijack it, and people will allow it only because they believe them, just like Iran.

Its your own decision what type of a state you want but also in a secular and democratic country you could be muslims and do what your religion wants from you.
The only difference is that you would be free to be who you are, you could use the full potential of yourself and your country.
I mean look what happened to Malala she could be the next president of Pakistan, i know it has nothing to do with State but its the perfect place for taliban if people follow their rules only because they claim to be Muslim Warriors.

I think Iran and Pakistan have some smart brains under their citizens but they cant release their full potential.

But this is just my Opinion.

My friend thats what happens in a Theocracy & Pakistan's founding father categorically said that Pakistan will not be a Theocracy or anything like it !

What we want is the space to have the opportunity to develop Islamic Jurisprudence, Islamic Finance & other Islamic Paradigms to bring them in line with modernity - We could never do that in a Secular State ! But unfortunately because our founding father died just a year after the country's creation - We've never managed to do any of that !

It was never about being a Muslim in a Secular Society but making an attempt to free Islam, in the words of Pakistan's National Poet, from the stamp of Arab Monarchy (& now Iranian Ayatollahs) & show to the world Islam & Modernity in perfect harmony !

Pakistan is in deep sh*t right now because of a plethora of reasons but in the '50s, the '60s & even the '70s we were a model State with even the South Koreans coming to Pakistan to study our economic model in the '50s & then they adopted our 5 year plan to propel their country forward !

Right now we're in a deep...deep mess because of a lot of reasons one of which is Afghanistan & the fact that that country has gone through 3 decades of war & we have gone through the same by extension !

Because that war has a Religious Context to it, it has given birth to Religious Extremism of the highest order otherwise we were never Secular but we were just fine til the '70s - When this mess started !
 
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