Turkey's STM won Pakistan Agosta 90B modernization tender

[Khafee]

Most likely electronics and sensors, though STM could potentially help with structural refreshment, but I don't know to what extent.

1) Torpedo tubes size to be increased.

2) Overhaul or replacement of MESMA with another AIP system.

 

[salarsikander]

I think you have answered the question.

The assumption that 'international' skills are better than 'local' skills.

A deep inferiority complex and lack of self-confidence.



There seems to be a lack of the right psyche. Happy to play second fiddle to others.

The Koreans had a motto 'Korea can do'. The idea was that Koreans can do anything. A basic rural society built Tankers, cars computers and just about anything. And they didn't need 'international' skills; or for that matter the English language.
And they started with a lot less than us.

Lol the way people ignore brain drain phenomena in search of better opportunities and later on blame the country.
Where is your part as an individual, i wonder

If there was right leadership and as you said psyche, we should have started, preferrably in parallel to the development of Agosta 90-B or at least immediately after the completion of the project, developing human resource for the future projects. We had got an excellent opportunity to learn from the ToT in Agosta project, a team of skilled designers, engineers and technicians had been developed so we needed to utilise them and we had more than sufficient time to develop our own submarines from the scratch indigenuously. The upgradation project should have been a much easier task. Why are we looking for Chinese or any other options......I mean I can't fathom the inferiority complex hardwired in the minds of our military and civilian leadership since the colonial times. Don't these pathetic brainless bald heads think that all other nations the share the same planet, resources and brains. All we need is to let our people develop skills, today they will make something basic but tomorrow they will something world class.

How much is spent on human capital development in Pakistan ?
How many of our engineers have left the country in search of better opportunities ?
Yes, its the sheer lack of confidence and inferiority complex that forces us to migrated to west. I have personally seen doctors, professionals leaving the country, rather than serving the country where they learnt it from. The statement you made is not plan white and black

 

[war&peace]

Lol the way people ignore brain drain phenomena in search of better opportunities and later on blame the country.
Where is your part as an individual, i wonder


How much is spent on human capital development in Pakistan ?
How many of our engineers have left the country in search of better opportunities ?
Yes, its the sheer lack of confidence and inferiority complex that forces us to migrated to west. I have personally seen doctors, professionals leaving the country, rather than serving the country where they learnt it from. The statement you made is not plan white and black

Well it will open up a whole new subject and which deserves a separate thread to discuss it....Did you ever wonder why they leave the country? and if you look at our neighbouring enemy...a lot of them returned, after India made certain changes in 1980s, to serve their country with all their experience and wealth, invested heavily in India. Also a tale of two scientists should tell you a few reasons... Abdul Kalam and Abdul Qadeer, the former raised and educated in India, served his country, developed the nuclear program and was rewarded as the head of the Hindu majority state while the latter did the same for his country with a major difference he left Europe and his lucrative job to serve his country and he was insulted, humiliated and disgraced on national TV, made a scape goat. And do we have any policy similar to "make in India" of course not, we will buy everything from Europe right? As long as the poor farmer is toiling in the scorching heat and overseas Pakistanis sending billions of dollars every year. I hope answered the question.

 

[salarsikander]

Well it will open up a whole new subject and which deserves a separate thread to discuss it....Did you ever wonder why they leave the country? and if you look at our neighbouring enemy...a lot of them returned, after India made certain changes in 1980s, to serve their country with all their experience and wealth, invested heavily in India. Also a tale of two scientists should tell you a few reasons... Abdul Kalam and Abdul Qadeer, the former raised and educated in India, served his country, developed the nuclear program and was rewarded as the head of the Hindu majority state while the latter did the same for his country with a major difference he left Europe and his lucrative job to serve his country and he was insulted, humiliated and disgraced on national TV, made a scape goat. And do we have any policy similar to "make in India" of course not, we will buy everything from Europe right? As long as the poor farmer is toiling in the scorching heat and overseas Pakistanis sending billions of dollars every year. I hope answered the question.

Then if we keep on pointing fingers who will bring the difference ? you have presented the argument. But as an individual where your role lies ?

 

[war&peace]

Then if we keep on pointing fingers who will bring the difference ? you have presented the argument. But as an individual where your role lies ?

The answer is in my comment if you care to read sir!!

 

[salarsikander]

The answer is in my comment if you care to read sir!!

So your sendinh of Billion from US hardly any proven since most of remittance is sourced from middle east i have been part of that system too before moving to pakistan permanently, is that helping local shipping industry ? if sending money is your part then you have no right to criticise further. Since, you have confined your role to sending money only, what I am talking about is the brains and the skills ? Can you replace the skills with dollars you have sent ? if it were the case then we would see arabs with their stashed oil money on a buying spree of skills. So you see my dear friend sometimes it just takes more than sending money ( though I am not completely dismissing the remittance) But merely emphasizing on the skills development part

 

[war&peace]

So your sendinh of Billion from US hardly any proven since most of remittance is sourced from middle east i have been part of that system too before moving to pakistan permanently, is that helping local shipping industry ? if sending money is your part then you have no right to criticise further. Since, you have confined your role to sending money only, what I am talking about is the brains and the skills ? Can you replace the skills with dollars you have sent ? if it were the case then we would see arabs with their stashed oil money on a buying spree of skills. So you see my dear friend sometimes it just takes more than sending money ( though I am not completely dismissing the remittance) But merely emphasizing on the skills development part

Provide a few basic things and make a good policy, a lot of overseas Pakistanis wish to return to Pakistan, middle east is a different thing because, as per my info, none gets a permanent residence or citizenship there...so sooner or later people have to return. However when projects like this are outsourced to foreign countries, what an engineer can do in his individual capacity. He has knowledge and skills but not the money...that has to come from somewhere. An engineer or a scientist cannot do anything until and unless there was right policies from the govt...when the psyche is outsource everything to foreigners...what can an engineer do...Lets be pragmatic, along with the skills...he has a belly to fill and rather a few bellies to fill...do you know how many engineers have left recently because their jobs got slashed...where should they go when the investors are fleeing the country. You launch a few major shipbuilding projects in Pakistan, advertise for jobs internationally and select people on merit, a lot of overseas Pakistanis will come running back to home...A ship is not a small thing that an individual can build alone. Policies are important.

 

[salarsikander]

Provide a few basic things and make a good policy, a lot of overseas Pakistanis wish to return to Pakistan, middle east is a different thing because, as per my info, none gets a permanent residence or citizenship there...so sooner or later people have to return. However when projects like this are outsourced to foreign countries, what an engineer can do in his individual capacity. He has knowledge and skills but not the money...that has to come from somewhere. An engineer or a scientist cannot do anything until and unless there was right policies from the govt...when the psyche is outsource everything to foreigners...what can an engineer do...Lets be pragmatic, along with the skills...he has a belly to fill and rather a few bellies to fill...do you know how many engineers have left recently because their jobs got slashed...where should they go when the investors are fleeing the country. You launch a few major shipbuilding projects in Pakistan, advertise for jobs internationally and select people on merit, a lot of overseas Pakistanis will come running back to home...A ship is not a small thing that an individual can build alone. Policies are important.

My dear sir again the blame game. If the policies arent right. the loser are on top are not doing it right. so does that mean we completely abandon it ? If you have ( godforbid) a trouble in your family, what do you do ? runaway and blame the ancestors for making failed policies or you seek to redress them through your own personal capacity. your country si like your family

 

[SherDil]

Finally some good news from PN

 

[war&peace]

My dear sir again the blame game. If the policies arent right. the loser are on top are not doing it right. so does that mean we completely abandon it ? If you have ( godforbid) a trouble in your family, what do you do ? runaway and blame the ancestors for making failed policies or you seek to redress them through your own personal capacity. your country si like your family

The people who have the power to rectify things are busy in saluting the corrupt and minding their own "professional" career, they damn care about the country. so first get the house in order then ask the overseas to return. We don't have even the right to vote. A country is not like a family at least not like our country because in a family you always have somenone who listens to you..if that last person is gone, you have to leave the family...a painful fact.

 

[The SC]

I think Pakistan is doing great, every major procurement has a high percentage made in Pakistan, otherwise called TOT..It is a sign that "Pakistan also can do"

 

[Zarvan]

What upgrades are we talking about here ? And does those upgrades include weapons ?

 

[cabatli_53]

The share of STM on U-214 TN program.

 

[AKINCI]

Some possible subparts

1.http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/cap...cs-and-sonar-systems/kulac-echosounder-system

2.http://www.havelsan.com.tr/ENG/Main/urun/998/sonar-integrated-submarine-command-and-control-seda

3.http://www.havelsan.com.tr/ENG/Main/urun/999/torpedo-firing-control-systems-toraks™
4.http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/cap...re-system-for-submarine-platforms-ares-2sc-ns
5.http://www.aselsan.com.tr/tr-tr/basin-odasi/haberler/Sayfalar/20150313DAKATeslimat.aspx

 

[Arsalan]

1) Torpedo tubes size to be increased.

2) Overhaul or replacement of MESMA with another AIP system.

We already have 533mm tubes sir, what bigger tubes would we want? I am not sure it will be about that.
It is most probably going to be more of a general overhaul of engine and subsystems, perhaps adding some noise reduction features and some electronic upgrades (combat system upgrades etc).
As far as i am aware sonar was not a problem so i am not sure if we will be looking to change that (may go for a new one just to upgrade the sub however)
Changing AIP will be a huge task and the project costs will shoot up. Better spend a few more $$ and go for new subs. However overhauling of the MESMA is a possibility. There have been a few issues as well so perhaps a detailed maintenance and up gradation operation of AIP will address that,