Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[Yankee-stani]

That's what am saying. If Turkey carries on with anti West policies and the purchase of Russia s400 then USA will take action. They won't care how important Turkey is but some PDF members believe USA will not do much as they need Turkey and they cannot leave Turkey. I do pray it's true as Turkey has a good future.

I can see clearly how much advantage Russia would have by having Turkey in its camp.

Russia wants to cull Turkey that's all they luring them in a trap tbh Russians and Turks have been at necks for centuries hell Russia does not want Turkish presence in Central Asia and Syria just wants to milk Erdogan is an idiot

Don't underestimate S-400. Turkey cannot build this all by itself.

Well 20 year of working wasted

 

[maximuswarrior]

That's what am saying. If Turkey carries on with anti West policies and the purchase of Russia s400 then USA will take action. They won't care how important Turkey is but some PDF members believe USA will not do much as they need Turkey and they cannot leave Turkey. I do pray it's true as Turkey has a good future.

I can see clearly how much advantage Russia would have by having Turkey in its camp.

Turkey is an important country and the tussle between the US/NATO and Russia only confirms this.

Having said that, Turkey is at crossroads. The Americans are in the mood of wrecking the world. This is all happening by design. What we are witnessing today is the world being divided in 2 seperate camps. You have Russia and China in one camp and you have the US Europeans in the other camp. Some are appeasing both sided and getting away with it and some are being forced to choose between the camps. Because Turkey is traditionally a NATO member it is being forced to choose. It cannot appease both sides.

This is not so much about S-400 vs F-35. This is about making a choice between two camps.

 

[aziqbal]

if I was Turkey I would cut the alliance issues and look purely at the economic advantage

clearly F35 is worth more economically than S400

I hope they drop S400 and go for F35

then once F35 is delivered then buy S400 lol

 

[maximuswarrior]

if I was Turkey I would cut the alliance issues and look purely at the economic advantage

clearly F35 is worth more economically than S400

I hope they drop S400 and go for F35

then once F35 is delivered then buy S400 lol

I agree with the fact that cutting the S-400 deal will do less harm to Turkey as opposed to cutting the F-35 deal. That is in the short term of course. In the long term Turkey would win a lot by focussing on self reliance.

The Americans are clearly also applying economic pressure. The letter makes a clear hint towards more economic pressure if Turkey goes ahead with the S-400 deal. In other words, the Yanks won't just remove F-35 deal, but also move onto economic and political pressure.

It is a matter of principles. Is Turkey going to ditch the S-400 deal and appease Uncle Sam or is Turkey going to remain principled and go ahead with the inked deal?

It won't be easy for Turkey because the Yanks are truly nasty fvckers. They are going to put as much pressure as they can to have Turkey comply.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Can you enlighten us on why Turkey is so important for Europe and USA. USA has 40+ European countries in its pockets, all Gulf nations, many African nations, Japan, India, S Korea.

Why would one Turkey become such a big setback? What has Turkey to offer in term of Technology, Economy, and politics?

Are you serious?

• access to the Black Sea
• Turkey's influence on the Balkan nations due to the fact that we have millions of citizens with Balkanic heritage
  
• Turkey is America's gate to the Caucasus region
• Turkey together with Russia and China could almost completely shield Central Asia from US influence
  
• Turkey's influence on millions of Muslims in Western Europe
  
• We're Europe's 5th largest trading partner...
• and NATO's second largest military
• Turkey is used as a intelligence base against Russia
• Turkey has a key role in Europe's missile defense architecture
  
• Northern Cyprus is Turkish
• No hegemony in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea without Turkish backing
• Turkey's growing role in Europe's energy safety (new pipelines etc)
• We could let the Euro go down by confronting Greece militarily
• We've military deployed in Somalia, Iraq, Syria, Qatar, Azerbaijan, Kosovo, Afghanistan etc.
• We could heavily escalate the conflict in Palestine, Yemen, Syria, Libya
• We could support the Iranian regime making them almost immune against military interventions
• Theoretically, we could even blockade the Suez canal
  
• Deploying Russian or Chinese nuclear weapons instead of American bombs

And the list goes on....

Just look at our tiny and rather unimportant neighbour Syria. If Russia, the US and Europe are investing that much money, energy and time to get the upper hand in Syria what do you think are they capable to do for Turkey?

We cannot stop the Americans but we could make their life miserable.

Losing Turkey would be catastrophic especially for Europe. Historically, Western Europe needed Turkey to contain Russia's influence.

 

[1nsaneTR]

The guy doesnt even know how nato works. NATO doesnt even have a “kicking out” procedure. In other words, there is no such thing as kicking a country out of NATO.


For starters:
1- Turkey can send a tiny pack of 2-3 million refugees to Europe which will devastate it economically and socially, unless they play nice of course.
2- Europe is hoping to build a “European Army”. Turkey has the largest military in Europe aside from Russia. Now you figure out what kind of an army a “European army” would be without its biggest military member.
3- Turkey controls the bosporus. In wartime the black sea is Turkey’s private pool. Be nice to us and we wont even let Russia use its only warm-water ports (during war). Be bad to us and we will have a party with the Russians in the black sea and you are not invited.
4- Turkey single handedly constitutes the southern gas corridor.

US can create one...

For realistic people:
1) We cannot send millions of refugees to Europe. Europe is not stupid and they don't welcome refugees.
2) Europe has left us years ago. They no more care about us.
3) Everybody can pass the Bosphorus with warships.
4) We can not control any corridor. Mediterranean natural gas?

You talk like someone else too...

 

[blackeyes90]

US can create one...

For realistic people:
1) We cannot send millions of refugees to Europe. Europe is not stupid and they don't welcome refugees.
2) Europe has left us years ago. They no more care about us.
3) Everybody can pass the Bosphorus with warships.
4) We can not control any corridor. Mediterranean natural gas?

You talk like someone else too...

3-NOPE. Other then blacksea countries its up to Turkey to decide who pass from straits with warships. If we want we can close the straits to US and Nato warships. That authority resides Turkish Vessel Traffic Center or (VTS)
4-Look at map. Turkey has the only navy in the region that can control the Eastern Mediterranean.

By the way Atmaca missile with cool video

https://twitter.com/x/status/1059011905946378240

 

[TheMightyBender]

US can create one...

For realistic people:
1) We cannot send millions of refugees to Europe. Europe is not stupid and they don't welcome refugees.
2) Europe has left us years ago. They no more care about us.
3) Everybody can pass the Bosphorus with warships.
4) We can not control any corridor. Mediterranean natural gas?

You talk like someone else too...

1- nobody welcomes a flood
2- nope
3- nope
4- ever heard of the middle east and the caspian region? Aka the biggest exporters of oil and gas in the world? Also have you heard of Europe? Aka the biggest importers of gas in the world? We connect the two.

 

[Mamluk]

I don't like the way things are going. Turkey should stick to F-35 for now and receive its entire order before making their next move.

 

[Bismarck]

I don't like the way things are going. Turkey should stick to F-35 for now and receive its entire order before making their next move.

We don't talk about chose of weapon systems. We talk about self-determination rights.

 

[UkroTurk]

After the election Turkey will meet precautions of USA. Let's bet

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I agree with the fact that cutting the S-400 deal will do less harm to Turkey as opposed to cutting the F-35 deal. That is in the short term of course. In the long term Turkey would win a lot by focussing on self reliance.

The Americans are clearly also applying economic pressure. The letter makes a clear hint towards more economic pressure if Turkey goes ahead with the S-400 deal. In other words, the Yanks won't just remove F-35 deal, but also move onto economic and political pressure.

It is a matter of principles. Is Turkey going to ditch the S-400 deal and appease Uncle Sam or is Turkey going to remain principled and go ahead with the inked deal?

It won't be easy for Turkey because the Yanks are truly nasty fvckers. They are going to put as much pressure as they can to have Turkey comply.

And, Turkey is a 2K years old hard nut to crack....

 

[mike2000 is back]

That's what am saying. If Turkey carries on with anti West policies and the purchase of Russia s400 then USA will take action. They won't care how important Turkey is but some PDF members believe USA will not do much as they need Turkey and they cannot leave Turkey. I do pray it's true as Turkey has a good future.

I can see clearly how much advantage Russia would have by having Turkey in its camp.

Before i would have disagree with you, but since Trump is in power, i believe Turkey will really be cut off from the F-35 and sanctions might even follow if they go for the S-400. This is not even a guess, it's a sure thing. Trump is not a politician by career, neither is he a diplomat. He does what he says, so in this regard he is quite frank/straight forward in his dealings. The sanctions and cutting off of any cooperation and supply of technology to Huawei is a very good example that many people never believed will happen(not even me to be honest), same with the trade war/tarrifs issue etc. So Turkey better be prepared, and make its choice wisely. Trump is unlike any other president the U.S has ever had. Unluckily for Turkey Trump happens to be U.S president when this deal/issue started/going on.

 

[Bismarck]

Turkey is an important country and the tussle between the US/NATO and Russia only confirms this.

Having said that, Turkey is at crossroads. The Americans are in the mood of wrecking the world. This is all happening by design. What we are witnessing today is the world being divided in 2 seperate camps. You have Russia and China in one camp and you have the US Europeans in the other camp. Some are appeasing both sided and getting away with it and some are being forced to choose between the camps. Because Turkey is traditionally a NATO member it is being forced to choose. It cannot appease both sides.

This is not so much about S-400 vs F-35. This is about making a choice between two camps.

You are wrong if you think we (European) are in the same camp with USA.

 

[WarDaddy97]

Turkish pilots are “grounded” at Luke AF base. On top of that they are denied access to the “vault “


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Training by Turkish pilots on F-35 fighter jets has come to a faster-than-expected halt at a U.S. air base in Arizona, U.S. officials said on Monday, as the United States winds down Ankara’s involvement in the program over Turkey’s plans to buy a Russian air defense system.

“The department is aware that the Turkish pilots at Luke AFB are not flying,” Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Mike Andrews, a Pentagon spokesman, told Reuters.

“Without a change in Turkish policy, we will continue to work closely with our Turkish ally on winding down their participation in the F-35 program.”

A second U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters that a local commander at Luke decided last week to halt the training of Turkish pilots and maintenance crews over safety concerns.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ger-flying-at-u-s-base-pentagon-idUSKCN1TB2LU

You are wrong if you think we (European) are in the same camp with USA.

You are in the same camp with us. Forever