Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[Melkor]

The US is not blame-less, of course. And Turkey has every right to have the S-400 and leave NATO if she wants, nobody can stop that. We get made out as the external boogyman by every government that is having internal strife (Politics 101: External enemies solidify domestic support).

I believe that a fundamental shift in Turkish politics got the ball rolling on this, and now we are two proud nations who aren't going to bluff or blink, so we know where this is headed. (Not enemies, but not close).

What’s this fundamental shift that oh so frustrated the dear yanks then?

 

[OCguy]

What’s this fundamental shift that oh so frustrated the dear yanks then?

You're asking a question you already know the answer to.

 

[Melkor]

You're asking a question you already know the answer to.

Refresh my memory pls.

 

[Oublious]

 

[TheMightyBender]

US set to deliver 2 more F-35 jets to Turkey
WASHINGTON – Anadolu Agency

The U.S. is set to deliver two more F-35fighter jets to Turkey, a spokesman for the F-35 program said on March 19.

Joe DellaVedova told Anadolu Agency the Turkish F-35 program of record, including ongoing training of Turkish F-35personnel at Luke Air Force Base, is continuing "until otherwise directed."

"Turkey currently has two F-35As at Luke Air Force Base and two other aircraft are in final preparations to go to Luke," said DellaVedova. "The first two aircraft are currently scheduled to arrive in the country in November."

However, sources familiar with the matter said delivery of the latest pair would take place within weeks.

DellaVedova and sources avoided giving a specific date due to final preparations, technical issues, weather conditions and flight schedule.

In line with schedule conditions, the U.S. is supposed to send the aircraft of new delivery to Turkey within one to two years after flight trainings are completed under U.S. custody.

Turkey took ceremonial delivery of first two F-35 fighters in June. The aircraft were sent to Luke Air Force Base in Arizona where they are used to teach Turkish pilots and crews to maintain and fly the fighters.

Ankara is planning to purchase 100 F-35fighter jets. The Pentagon delivered a report to Congress detailing implications of Turkey receiving the stealth fighter jets in November.

Turkey first joined the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Program in 2002 and has invested more than $1.25 billion. It also "manufactures various aircraft parts for all F-35 variants and customers."

Separately, as a security issue for Turkeysince the end of the 1990s, its search for an air and missile defense system accelerated in 2011 due to threats in the region.

After protracted efforts to purchase the Patriot air defense systems from the U.S. with no success, Ankara decided in 2017 to buy Russia's S-400 system, which sparked concerns among American officials.

Washington cautioned the S-400 system might covertly obtain critical information on its F-35 fighter jets, including detection range, which could then be relayed to Russia.

Several top generals suggested Washington should not supply Ankara with F-35 fighter jets if it accepts Russia's S-400 missile defense system.

Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar, however, stressed that Ankara purchasing S-400s from Russia is "not a choice, but a necessity".

 

[Killuminati]

Yankees have no other choice than delivering the F-35 to Turkey!

 

[monitor]

I think Turkey should first take delivery of all their 100 F-35 and then disclose plan for purchasing S-400 from Russia .so US wouldn't have chance to stop Turkey from buying S-400 . for stop gap Turkey should buy PAC-3 to keep US calm .

 

[Mucahit]

I think Turkey should first take delivery of all their 100 F-35 and then disclose plan for purchasing S-400 from Russia .so US wouldn't have chance to stop Turkey from buying S-400 . for stop gap Turkey should buy PAC-3 to keep US calm .

So Turkey should wait for 10-15 years? Because that's how long it's gonna take to get all the planes and by then Turkey will have their own systems capable of matching with the likes of S-400's

 

[monitor]

So Turkey should wait for 10-15 years? Because that's how long it's gonna take to get all the planes and by then Turkey will have their own systems capable of matching with the likes of S-400's

No if by that time S-500 develop Turkey could buy that ,in fact Turkey even interested in participate in the S-500 development . the reality is F-35 is already a ready Fifth generation program and Turkey have the opportunity to become the maintenance hub for this Aircraft which brings billion dollar of revenue to TAI . if Turkey is kick out of this program Turkey must lost the opportunity .
Turkey can't afford annoying west especially US which can impose weapons embargo or trade embargo for some silly reason and hamper Turkish rapid economic development
without annoying west Turkey can have Siper indigenous long rang air defense system, PAC-3 air defense system as well as as Fifth generation F-35 which will pull Turkey to one of the most powerful country in middle east . after getting all this order S-400/500 which Turkey not have or might problematic to develop.

 

[Kitco]

No if by that time S-500 develop Turkey could buy that ,in fact Turkey even interested in participate in the S-500 development . the reality is F-35 is already a ready Fifth generation program and Turkey have the opportunity to become the maintenance hub for this Aircraft which brings billion dollar of revenue to TAI . if Turkey is kick out of this program Turkey must lost the opportunity .
Turkey can't afford annoying west especially US which can impose weapons embargo or trade embargo for some silly reason and hamper Turkish rapid economic development
without annoying west Turkey can have Siper indigenous long rang air defense system, PAC-3 air defense system as well as as Fifth generation F-35 which will pull Turkey to one of the most powerful country in middle east . after getting all this order S-400/500 which Turkey not have or might problematic to develop.

Ofcourse we can buy all of the things US wants to sell to us. But when we has it in our inventory who shall we use it on when needed?

Do you really think we are allowed to use them as we want, do we need f35 for bombing PKK?

Once you get cocky your master will crush your balls and make you obey. Thats the real life beeing a partner and allied with worlds biggest bandit state.

 

[Bismarck]

No if by that time S-500 develop Turkey could buy that ,in fact Turkey even interested in participate in the S-500 development . the reality is F-35 is already a ready Fifth generation program and Turkey have the opportunity to become the maintenance hub for this Aircraft which brings billion dollar of revenue to TAI . if Turkey is kick out of this program Turkey must lost the opportunity .
Turkey can't afford annoying west especially US which can impose weapons embargo or trade embargo for some silly reason and hamper Turkish rapid economic development
without annoying west Turkey can have Siper indigenous long rang air defense system, PAC-3 air defense system as well as as Fifth generation F-35 which will pull Turkey to one of the most powerful country in middle east . after getting all this order S-400/500 which Turkey not have or might problematic to develop.

You mean S-600..

 

[UkroTurk]

Turkey, Russia and America
Weapons of choice

ISTANBUL
Turkey risks American sanctions for
the second year in a row

For Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Er-
dogan, a deal is a deal. “There can never
be a turning back,” Mr Erdogan said on
March 6th, referring to his country’s pur-
chase of a Russian air and missile defence
system, which America and nato strongly
oppose. “Nobody should ask us to lick up
what we spat.”
The two s-400 batteries Turkey has or-
dered from Russia, which come with their
own radar, command centre and missile
launcher, for a reported $2.5bn, pack more
bang for the buck than most rival systems.
But they may end up costing Turkey much
more. Unless it walks away from the deal or
mitigates the risks the system poses to
nato, the country could end up on the re-
ceiving end of American sanctions. The
clock is ticking. Russia plans to deliver the
first of the batteries by July of this year.
Having simmered since 2017, when the
purchase was made public, the row over
the s-400s has recently come to a boil. Days
after Mr Erdogan’s statement, the Pentagon
warned that Turkey would face “grave con-
sequences” for buying the system. Two se-
nior State Department officials are said to
have delivered a similar message in person
the previous week.
According to the Pentagon, Turkey risks
expulsion from the f-35 programme, under
which the country stands to acquire 100
fighter jets from America, and sanctions
under a law (known as caatsa) that targets
transactions with the Russian intelligence
or defence sectors. That would be messy.
America would have to return over $1bn in
Turkish contributions to the f-35 pro-
gramme. Turkish manufacturers supply vi-
tal components; replacing them would
take up to two years, delaying deliveries to
other allies.

The row would not be a first. Last year
the Trump administration responded to
the arrest of an American pastor on outlan-
dish terrorism charges by freezing the as-
sets of two of Mr Erdogan’s ministers and
doubling tariffs on Turkish steel and alu-
minium products. Turkey eventually re-
leased the pastor, but not before its curren-
cy plunged. Turkish markets have already
shuddered at the thought of a showdown
over the s-400s. Having recovered from
last summer’s battering, the lira has fallen
steadily over the past seven weeks (see Fi-
nance and Economics).
Mr Erdogan insists there is no conflict
between buying the Russian weapons sys-
tem and his country’s nato commitments.
Others disagree. American and nato offi-
cials have repeatedly warned that Turkey
would not be able to plug the s-400 into the
alliance’s early-warning system. They also
say the system’s radars might allow Russia
to spy on the f-35s, compromising their
stealthiness.
Had Turkey’s interest in the s-400 been
intended merely to nudge America into
making Turkey a competing offer, it would
have been a success. Late last year America
proposed to sell Turkey a package of 140 Pa-
triot missiles for $3.5bn, but only once it
cancelled the deal with the Russians.
Mr Erdogan has rejected the offer. Tur-
key might consider buying the Patriots, his
government has announced, but not at the
expense of the s-400s. Turkey would prob-
ably not be able to walk away from the deal
even if it wanted to. Doing so would create
major problems for Turkey’s relations with
Russia, particularly when it comes to Syria,
says Emre Ersen, an academic at Marmara
University. There is speculation in Ankara
that Mr Erdogan may try to sidestep the cri-
sis by offering to keep the Russian weapons
in storage, or by reselling them to another
country. Yet even that may not be enough.
America opposes not just the system’s de-
ployment, but its purchase.
Most analysts say the question is no
longer whether things will come to a head,
but how and when. Some think that Ameri-
ca may decide to pile on the pressure ahead
of local elections in Turkey on March 31st,
placing Mr Erdogan in an uncomfortable
spot. In theory, America can still grant Tur-
key a caatsa waiver. Officials say this is un-
likely. Another deadline looms this au-
tumn, when two f-35s are set to arrive in
Turkey. Unless the two nato allies work
out a solution, the planes might never
touch Turkish soil.

 

[Bismarck]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/o...-allies-successfully-advertised-s-400/1423785

 

[Oublious]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/o...-allies-successfully-advertised-s-400/1423785

good aricle..

 

[mastaan]

Turkey finally planning to pivot away from S400s and planning to hedge their bets by buying more Iranian Gas (in case Putin reacts?)???

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-import-more-iranian-gas-irna-idUSKCN1R611W