Turkey’s Air Force Is Obsolete, Warns New Study

[Saifullah]

View attachment 742398

We tried getting the help of an British company RR for turbofan Engine
but that avenue fell through. So the Turks took the entire program in-house by 2018

wait for 2029

according to general manager of the TR-MOTOR turbofan Engine to be ignited for the first time by 2026 and by 2029 TFX will flight with indigenous turbofan engine

Motor needs more time than 2029. TFX will not be ready in 29 mark my words!. It's brilliant to be optimistic but one needs to be extremely cautious about defensive capability. One should always keep their defensive sword sharp.

I am eagerly waiting for the motor to be ready and give lots of Duas that it flourish day n night.

Jazāk Allāhu Khayran Brother

 

[MMM-E]

Motor needs more time than 2029. TFX will not be ready in 29 mark my words!. It's brilliant to be optimistic but one needs to be extremely cautious about defensive capability. One should always keep their defensive sword sharp.

I am eagerly waiting for the motor to be ready and give lots of Duas that it flourish day n night.

Jazāk Allāhu Khayran Brother

not my personal opinion

according to general manager of the TR-MOTOR , turbofan Engine to be ignited for the first time by 2026 and TFX will flight with indigenous turbofan engine by 2029

and TFX will be ready in 2029 ...
but there will be variants of the TFX such as TFX block-I in 2029 , TFX block-II in 2035 , etc

even 4,5+ gen TFX in 2029 will be enough to match with F-15 , Rafale , SU-35 in the region



btw Rafale and SU-35 will not change anything against Turkish Airforce when MIUS unmanned Fighter Jet enter service in 2025

until 2025 Turkish Airforce will have air superiority unmanned Fighter Jet MIUS armed with AKDOGAN long range air to air missiles similar to METEOR + AESA Radar + data link for BVR combat

also indigenous TEI TF-6000 ( 6000 lb ) turbofan Engine most probably will be used on GOKSUNGUR supersonic unmanned Fighter Jet

 

[Saifullah]

not my personal opinion

according to general manager of the TR-MOTOR , turbofan Engine to be ignited for the first time by 2026 and TFX will flight with indigenous turbofan engine by 2029

and TFX will be ready in 2029 ...
but there will be variants of the TFX such as TFX block-I in 2029 , TFX block-II in 2035 , etc

even 4,5+ gen TFX in 2029 will be enough to match with F-15 , Rafale , SU-35 in the region



btw Rafale and SU-35 will not change anything against Turkish Airforce when MIUS unmanned Fighter Jet enter service in 2025

until 2025 Turkish Airforce will have air superiority unmanned Fighter Jet MIUS armed with AKDOGAN long range air to air missiles similar to METEOR + AESA Radar + data link for BVR combat
View attachment 742454


also indigenous TEI TF-6000 ( 6000 lb ) turbofan Engine most probably will be used on GOKSUNGUR supersonic unmanned Fighter Jet

As i told you it will need more time and Turkey needs alternatives for defensive capabilities. None of what has been mentioned does that.

Al-Ḥamdu lillāh that the work is going on in a steady manner but Turkey needs JF17 Block-3 to keep alternative defensive capability.

My Duas are there for Turkey. Insha'Allah there will good in the future.

Jazāk Allāhu Khayran

 

[MMM-E]

JF17 can create havoc in Anti ship roles, and you need it on Aegean Sea flying out of Cigli and Bandirma airforce bases.

250 km ATMACA land based anti-ship missile can hit every enemy Warships in the Aegean Sea

even by 2025 , HURJET can carry 4x MRASHM anti-ship missiles or 8x 250km KUZGUN joint strike munitions for swarm attack on Frigates

even 10 AKINCI UCAVs can carry 80 KUZGUN joint strike munitions for swarm attack on Frigates

Turkey needs twin engine air superiorty Fighter such as TFX

 

[Oublious]

Turkey will upgrade F16 fleet with latest AESA radar technology, it will be a VIPER but Turkish version. Untill TFX is ready we will use it..

First F16 with AESA will fly in 2023...

 

[MMM-E]

As i told you it will need more time and Turkey needs alternatives for defensive capabilities. None of what has been mentioned does that.

Turks are not sleeping ..... Turkey always will have enough military power to protect its EEZ in the Eastern Mediterranean


1-- Turkey bought S400 air defense Systems to block its EEZ against Fighter Jets

2-- HISAR-A , HISAR-O , HISAR-U and SIPER Air Defense Systems until 2023

3-- Turkish 1.000+ km BORA Ballistic Missiles and 1.000+ km GEZGIN land based Cruise Missiles to hit jet hangars in the region

4-- until 2025, Turkish EEZ will be dominated by air superiority Jet Drone MIUS armed with AKDOGAN long range air to air missiles + AESA Radar + data link for BVR combat

5-- Turkish IHA-SOJ electronic warfare Drone and IHA-AEWC will support them from safe distance

6 --Turkish AKSUNGUR UCAVs to carry SONOBOUYS and light torpedos to hunt enemy Submarines

7-- Turkish AKINCI UCAVs to carry 8x 250km KUZGUN joint strike munitions for swarm attack on Frigates

8-- KORAL and REDET Radar Electronic Warfare Systems

9-- 600/700 km EIRS early warning AESA Radars

10- Turkey modernized 163 F-16s with link16 data link for network centric warfare

11- 35 F-16 block30s will be modernized with indiigenous mission computer , IFF , EW Systems and AESA Radar

12-- 4 Boeing E7-T AEWCs with 4 HAVASOJ airborne stand off jammer Aircrafts will give technological advantage to the Turkish Airforce

 

[Oublious]

Yes JF-17 Block 3 is a total non-starter for Turkey.


However I think you underestimate the problems that Greek Rafales and F-35s will be for the TAF this decade.

Although Turkey is improving quickly, the French AESA radar and avionics on the Rafale are going to be better than what Turkey can put into its F-16s and the Meteor will be in a class of its own. F-35 will be another step-up.

Turkey will have to rely on greater numbers and assymetrical warfare(cruise missiles/MLRS) in order to stay relevant with Greek airpower as this decade progresses.

How do you now that RAfeal avionics is better? Ther is no specs, you have complex.


Turkish AESA radar will be capable as an EW like the F35.

 

[UKBengali]

How do you now that RAfeal avionics is better? Ther is no specs, you have complex.

France has far more experience than Turkey in fighter radar area.

It is good to aim high but we need to be realistic!

 

[Saifullah]

Turks are not sleeping ..... Turkey always will have enough military power to protect its EEZ in the Eastern Mediterranean


1-- Turkey bought S400 air defense Systems to block its EEZ against Fighter Jets

2-- HISAR-A , HISAR-O , HISAR-U and SIPER Air Defense System until 2023

3-- Turkish 1.000+ km BORA Ballistic Missiles and 1.000+ km GEZGIN land based Cruise Missiles to hit jet hangars in the region

4-- until 2025, Turkish EEZ will be dominated by air superiority Jet Drone MIUS armed with AKDOGAN long range air to air missiles + AESA Radar + data link for BVR combat

5-- Turkish IHA-SOJ electronic warfare Drone and IHA-AEWC will support them from safe distance

6 --Turkish AKSUNGUR UCAVs to carry SONOBOUYS and light torpedos to hunt enemy Submarines

7-- Turkish AKINCI UCAVs to carry 8x 250km KUZGUN joint strike munitions for swarm attack on Frigates

8-- KORAL and REDET Radar Electronic Warfare Systems

9-- 600/700 km EIRS early warning AESA Radars

10- Turkey modernized 163 F-16s with link16 data link for network centric warfare

11- 35 F-16 block30s will be modernized with indiigenous mission computer , IFF , EW Systems and AESA Radar

12-- 4 Boeing E7-T AEWCs with 4 HAVASOJ airborne stand off jammer Aircrafts will give technological advantage to the Turkish Airforce

This all is good and Al-Ḥamdu lillāh for all this.

That's why I used the word 'alternatives' and there needs to be JF17 force next to F16. It will become a sword which has two sides of Edge and even if one side is dulled during fight you can choose the alternative edge and use it with full force to protect Turkey.

May ALLAH PAK brings more blessings upon Turk brothers.

Jazāk Allāhu Khayran

 

[Oublious]

France has far more experience than Turkey in fighter radar area.

It is good to aim high but we need to be realistic!

Thats a bad argument, today Turkish radar technolgy can be measured with level of Western world. I am writing it for you. We have mastered Radar, we can put all kind radar and produce it.

 

[MMM-E]

France has far more experience than Turkey in fighter radar area.

France has far more experience than Turkey in naval radar area too

but 450 km Aselsan CAFRAD naval AESA Radar is coming for TF-2000 class Destroyer project

Multi-function Naval Radars in the World ... ( The US,The UK,France,Turkey,Japan,Russia,Israel,China )

-- 150 km Poliment 5P-20K ( Admiral Gorshkov class Frigate of the Russian Navy ) ... RUSSIA
-- 190 km Lockheed Martin AN/SPY-1D ( Arleigh Burke class Destroyer of the US Navy ) .... THE US
-- 222 km FCS-3 ( Akizuki class Destroyer of the Japanese Navy ) ...... JAPAN
-- 250 km EL/M-2248 MF-STAR ( Kolkata class Destroyer of the Indian Navy ) ... ISRAEL
-- 320 km Raytheon AN/SPY-3 ( Zumwalt class Destroyer of the US Navy ) .... THE US
-- 400 km BAE Systems SAMPSON ( Type-45 class Destroyer of the Royal Navy ) ... THE UK
-- 400 km Thales SMART-L ( Horizon class Destroyer of the French Navy ) .... FRANCE
-- 450 km H/LJG-346B ( Type 055 class Destroyer of the Chinese Navy ) ... CHINA
-- 450 km Aselsan CAFRAD ( TF-2000 class Destroyer of the Turkish Navy ) ... TURKEY






also Turkey has developed 600+ km EIRS early warning AESA Radar to detect even low RCS targets from very long ranges

Land based long range AESA Radars in Europe


-- 470 km Thales Ground Master 400 ... FRANCE
-- 470 km Saab GIRAFFE 8A .... SWEDEN
-- 500 km Leonardo RAT-31DL ... ITALY
-- 600 km Aselsan EIRS .... TURKEY

 

[White and Green with M/S]

France has far more experience than Turkey in naval radar area too

but 450 km Aselsan CAFRAD naval AESA Radar is coming for TF-2000 class Destroyer project
View attachment 742509


Multi-function Naval Radars in the World ... ( The US,The UK,France,Turkey,Japan,Russia,Israel,China )

-- 150 km Poliment 5P-20K ( Admiral Gorshkov class Frigate of the Russian Navy ) ... RUSSIA
-- 190 km Lockheed Martin AN/SPY-1D ( Arleigh Burke class Destroyer of the US Navy ) .... THE US
-- 222 km FCS-3 ( Akizuki class Destroyer of the Japanese Navy ) ...... JAPAN
-- 250 km EL/M-2248 MF-STAR ( Kolkata class Destroyer of the Indian Navy ) ... ISRAEL
-- 320 km Raytheon AN/SPY-3 ( Zumwalt class Destroyer of the US Navy ) .... THE US
-- 400 km BAE Systems SAMPSON ( Type-45 class Destroyer of the Royal Navy ) ... THE UK
-- 400 km Thales SMART-L ( Horizon class Destroyer of the French Navy ) .... FRANCE
-- 450 km H/LJG-346B ( Type 055 class Destroyer of the Chinese Navy ) ... CHINA
-- 450 km Aselsan CAFRAD ( TF-2000 class Destroyer of the Turkish Navy ) ... TURKEY






also Turkey has developed 600+ km EIRS early warning AESA Radar to detect even low RCS targets from very long ranges
View attachment 742508

Land based long range AESA Radars in Europe


-- 470 km Thales Ground Master 400 ... FRANCE
-- 470 km Saab GIRAFFE 8A .... SWEDEN
-- 500 km Leonardo RAT-31DL ... ITALY
-- 600 km Aselsan EIRS .... TURKEY

And France has no AESAs on Horizon class destroyers with same or better range than Turkish Developing/testing ship based AESA but France already deployed AESA on its Horizon class Destroyers Which is actually a cruiser

 

[MMM-E]

And France has no AESAs on Horizon class destroyers with same or better range than Turkish Developing/testing ship based AESA but France already deployed AESA on its Horizon class Destroyers Which is actually a cruiser

-- 400 km Thales SMART-L ( Horizon class Destroyer of the French Navy ) .... FRANCE
-- 450 km Aselsan CAFRAD ( TF-2000 class Destroyer of the Turkish Navy ) ... TURKEY

Turkey has also GaN based AESA Radar technology for land,naval and airborne

even French THALES which is one of the world’s leading defence companies to use the transmitter/receiver (T/R Modules) from Turkish ASELSAN for Radars


btw French Horizon class Destroyer which is actually a Frigate ( 48x SAMs , 8x Ashm and 6x Torpedos ) nothing else

Turkish TF-2000 class Destroyer will be superior ( 144x SAMs , 16x LACMs , 16x Ashm and 6x Torpedos )

 

[maverick1977]

250 km ATMACA land based anti-ship missile can hit every enemy Warships in the Aegean Sea

even by 2025 , HURJET can carry 4x MRASHM anti-ship missiles or 8x 250km KUZGUN joint strike munitions for swarm attack on Frigates
View attachment 742483


even 10 AKINCI UCAVs can carry 80 KUZGUN joint strike munitions for swarm attack on Frigates

Turkey needs twin engine air superiorty Fighter such as TFX
View attachment 742484

Seriously dude, you are comparing KUZGUN with antiship. 25-60kg of Kuzgun warhead for light and armored vehicles to antiship missile on JF17 with 200kgs of warheard... i can only laugh at how childish your post is.

Have you seen anti ship package of JF17, and how can you compare a HURJET with JF17, its like apples and oranges.. Land fixed based systems are restricted in nature, its for defensive purpose for landing forces. Turkey needs to think beyond being a defensive force

• Anti-ship missiles:
  • C-601 — (Anti-ship missile)
  • C-705KD — (Anti-ship missile)
  • CM-802AKG — (Anti-ship cruise missile

 

[maxpayne]

Blocking of spare support was a Sure thing. US only needed a reason to block. Its better to get to know cruel side of US today, rather than after putting all eggs In single basket. Atleast They have time now...

Agree, going for the S-400 was a bad choice(especially considering the fact that the US warned them of getting kicked out of the F-35 program), but i guess Erdogan's pride/ego made him to lose some sort of rationality here. It was overall a bad deal for Turkey.
So now, since they have already been kicked out of the F-35 , their best solution is to go for Russia's Su-57, since i don't think the Chinese will be willing to get them with their most advanced fighter J-20. Then they can then try and take their time and focus on their homegrown TF-X fighter which they are trying to develop, but even so that will take decades for them to be able to develop one, and that's assuming they will carry it out until the end(since I'm not sure they have the technological capabilities/skills to develop a 5th generation fighter to keep up with this class of fighters that will be common in their neighbourhood this coming decade.) to think that they can develop this fighter by 2030 is a fanciful dream. Even our country who has far more experience/skills/technology/know how than Turkey is targeting mid 2030s for our tempest fighter to start entering service. So Turkey should be more pragmatic and go for a stop gap measure i guess. They cant develop such a fighter without western help/cooperation.