Turkey will closely follow Greek plans to revive oil bid in Aegean, says FM

[amalakas]

Let's say for the sake of the arguement, Turkey occupied a considerable amount of islands do you think any of the EU countries will intervene and waste their men and resources for you? I don't know what it is that you see but from my point of view I can't see any vast cold-war armies in Europe Turkey and Greece are exceptions.

Hell, even UK is cutting budget.

But you don't see. Our intentions are pure, the only damn point is to cause you trouble. What do you think will happen? They'll sanction Turkey -again- but it's very limited what they can do. We have our own military industry. So we sit on your islands just like Cyprus, no EEZ no FIR no nothing plus your combat casualities, enormous military expenses and so on..

My point is, the pressure on you is much bigger, you will fold the one way or another. Even the current crisis itself can almost break you. You think Turkey's position is weak but yours is much weaker.
Damn straight

I think there is more than sanctions that will come to play. This is a different time. Cyprus happened in a very difficult time for everyone. These days there will be a different reaction.

On the other hand, a short -let's say 5-7 day conflict with Turkey will be devastating for us.. at this economy it will take forever to rebuild forces.

 

[Type 052D]

The Greek HAF have full radar coverage over the islands the encompase the Aegean sea. S-300UP and EWAC survellence planes from Crete could provide movement information in the dispute sea chains.

 

[Babur Han]

@LegionnairE

Let's say for the sake of the arguement, Turkey occupied a considerable amount of islands do you think any of the EU countries will intervene and waste their men and resources for you? I don't know what it is that you see but from my point of view I can't see any vast cold-war armies in Europe Turkey and Greece are exceptions.

Hell, even UK is cutting budget.

There are plannig in the EU to summarize the defence Budgets of it's Members States and built a commom Army with an own Headquator ! It makes more Sense for EU to summerize Budgets, than cash strapped Member States need to reduce the Budgets for their National Armys ! US also need a stronger Europe since they are busy with Afghanistan, Iraq and need to strength their Presence in Pacific in order to Counter a stronger China !

EU military headquarters plans 'backed by Baroness Ashton'

Baroness Ashton is a key ally in a French plot to create a Brussels military headquarters that will build on existing European Union military missions.


By Henry Samuel, Paris and Bruno Waterfield, Brussels

7:00PM GMT 11 Nov 2012

Lady Ashton, the EU foreign minister, has signalled to Paris she will go against British opposition if France can win other allies this winter, a senior French defence ministry source has told the Daily Telegraph.

Her support comes ahead of a meeting of foreign and defence ministers of the so-called "big five" group of France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Poland in Paris next Wednesday to discuss driving "European defence" forward.

The French effectively view the launch of new EU military missions as a Trojan horse for a European military headquarters and France will mount a major offensive in mid-2014 that could see it back treaty change to scrap national vetoes over defence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...quarters-plans-backed-by-Baroness-Ashton.html

 

[LegionnairE]

I think there is more than sanctions that will come to play. This is a different time. Cyprus happened in a very difficult time for everyone. These days there will be a different reaction.

Agreed, yet a direct military intervention seems unlikely to me.

On the other hand, a short -let's say 5-7 day conflict with Turkey will be devastating for us.. at this economy it will take forever to rebuild forces.

Agreed again, this isn't the path you wanna take definitely not.

There are plannig in the EU to summarize the defence Budgets of it's Members States and built a commom Army with an own Headquator ! It makes more Sense for EU to summerize Budgets, than cash strapped Member States need to reduce the Budgets for their National Armys ! US also need a stronger Europe since they are busy with Afghanistan, Iraq and need to strength their Presence in Pacific in order to Counter a stronger China !

Yeah, US doesn't like the budget cuts in EU i can tell. But honestly I don't think Europe is ready for what you're saying. They can't just jump to that stage. This isn't something that can happen overnight.

And why would they want another HQ at Brussels? What's wrong with Ramstein?

 

[Babur Han]

Agreed, yet a direct military intervention seems unlikely to me.

Agreed again, this isn't the path you wanna take definitely not.

Yeah, US doesn't like the budget cuts in EU i can tell. But honestly I don't think Europe is ready for what you're saying. They can't just jump to that stage. This isn't something that can happen overnight.

I agree with you that a commom european Intervention Force will not be built overnight, this is not Matter ! There are Intentions within the EU to built up an Intervention Army, our defence Plannings should Consider this Plans ! You should not forget the Fact that Turkey has blocked Access to NATO Capabillities for EU in the Past ! In 2004 there was reached a Compromise that Cyprus and Malta are excludet from strategic Cooperation between NATO and EU.

The central problem for the EU-NATO relationship can be traced back to the interpretation of the agreement between NATO and the EU, reached at the end of 2002. This basically sealed the decision taken by NATO at the Washington Summit, to provide support to the EU under “Berlin Plus” in exchange for certain rights within ESDP for non EU European allies, as stipulated in the Nice implementation document. The NATO decision excludes non Partnership for Peace (PfP) countries and those lacking security agreement from activities, including discussions, related to both Berlin Plus and strategic partnership. The EU decision, however, limits the exclusion only to Berlin Plus and does not refer to strategic cooperation. Therefore, under the NATO decision, Cyprus is excluded (along with Malta) from participating in anything falling under “strategic cooperation.” This is not the case, however, according to the EU decision. Today, the EU seeks to overcome the problems posed by this wording. On the basis of the Community solidarity principle, the EU claims that Cyprus can no longer be left outside the scope of this arrangement and refuse to engage in dialogue with NATO without all EU members sitting around the table.

The Evolving EU, NATO, and Turkey Relationship: Implications for Transatlantic Security | Atlantic Council

 

[atatwolf]

If Greece starts a war, EU and NATO won't support them. The same way Europe didn't support Greece when they try to pull of a genocide and enosis in Cyprus.

If Greece started a conflict in the Aegean, EU will support the stronger side. They can't stand up against Turkey, especially since Iran war is coming and they can't handle taking on the gorilla in the room aka the grand Turk.

Greece would be dismembered in a blink of an eye if they tried to stand up against Turks. We won't allow them to pose a thread to our security. IMHO we don't even have to talk about this scenario, Greek population is never capable of making such risky decisions. Only way such a thing could happen is after a new Greek civil war, when right exteremist defeat the leftist in Greece. Somehing like this would never happen. The leftist are too strong in Greece. The extreme right doesn't have a chance in Greece.

 

[amalakas]

If Greece starts a war, EU and NATO won't support them. The same way Europe didn't support Greece when they try to pull of a genocide and enosis in Cyprus.

If Greece started a conflict in the Aegean, EU will support the stronger side. They can't stand up against Turkey, especially since Iran war is coming and they can't handle taking on the gorilla in the room aka the grand Turk.

Greece would be dismembered in a blink of an eye if they tried to stand up against Turks. We won't allow them to pose a thread to our security. IMHO we don't even have to talk about this scenario, Greek population is never capable of making such risky decisions. Only way such a thing could happen is after a new Greek civil war, when right exteremist defeat the leftist in Greece. Somehing like this would never happen. The leftist are too strong in Greece. The extreme right doesn't have a chance in Greece.

Greece start a war ?

 

[atatwolf]

Greece start a war ?

What is funny?

 

[amalakas]

What is funny?

Really ? I mean really?

 

[atatwolf]

Really ? I mean really?

Yes really, really, really. If Greece declares EEZ. That would mean it started the war because Turkey clearly announced it would be a casus belli. Maybe you didn't fire the first shot but you did started it.

 

[amalakas]

Yes really, really, really. If Greece declares EEZ. That would mean it started the war because Turkey clearly announced it would be a casus belli. Maybe you didn't fire the first shot but you did started it.

Last time I heard, it was the expansion of territorial waters to 12 miles that was the casus belli.

Now it is the EEZ as well

perhaps Turkish foreign policy should ease down with the latin .. huh ?

How typical to consider starting a war an act that is not an assault or an attack of any kind. international bullying and a legitimate reason for war are not the same thing

 

[mehmeTcc]

Last time I heard, it was the expansion of territorial waters to 12 miles that was the casus belli.

Now it is the EEZ as well

perhaps Turkish foreign policy should ease down with the latin .. huh ?

How typical to consider starting a war an act that is not an assault or an attack of any kind. international bullying and a legitimate reason for war are not the same thing

No matter at all:
Turkish Frigate Trespasses Greek Territorial Waters Near Myconos | Greece.GreekReporter.com Latest News from Greece
Turkish naval corvette enters Greek waters and sails almost to Athens - South Eastern Europe - The Sofia Echo
Turkish violations of Athens F.I.R. and Greek airspace . [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
Turkey does whatever it believes in, do we look like that we accept those claim in the Aegean? We patrol this area as TURKISH SOIL on regular basis.

 

[amalakas]

No matter at all:
Turkish Frigate Trespasses Greek Territorial Waters Near Myconos | Greece.GreekReporter.com Latest News from Greece
Turkish naval corvette enters Greek waters and sails almost to Athens - South Eastern Europe - The Sofia Echo
Turkish violations of Athens F.I.R. and Greek airspace . [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
Turkey does whatever it believes in, do we look like that we accept those claim in the Aegean? We patrol this area as TURKISH SOIL on regular basis.

Exactly my point. Sooner or later masks fall.

 

[Aegis DDG]

Greece action is similar to China's aggressive bids in the SCS. Such territorial fascist should be stopped immediately.
Turkey needs to reform's it navy among JMSDF lines...

 

[Gaara]

The Greek HAF have full radar coverage over the islands the encompase the Aegean sea. S-300UP and EWAC survellence planes from Crete could provide movement information in the dispute sea chains.

Some of those islands are so close to Anatolian mainland that we can use inflatable boats, which are absolutely undetecable by Greeks' "full radar coverage", to seize them..