Turkey offers alternative to Iran pipeline

[Tiki Tam Tam]

India will never be part of this pipe line or any pipeline passing through Pakistan. Infect, now India is using it as a hindrance tool to the project.
India can always arrange few blasts on Pakistan gas pipelines as a reason for finally abandoning it.
French president recently visited India and offered almost everything what India is longing to have from US but India seemed not very interested to have those from any other source.
Wait for a big surprise gift from US to India in return.

The fact that the French President "offered almost everything" indicates the growing international stature of India, I reckon. I find no other reason why anyone should offer almost everything.

I also feel that just because some country, important that it maybe in the world, offering something to India, does not mean that India has to jump to every offer. Therefore, if indeed India has not taken up on the French offer, it is nothing unusual. It also does not mean that India is taking up the US offer. It all depends as to who offers the best terms. India, to the best of my knowledge, is not going head over heels with any offer and instead is weighing the same as per her own interests.

What makes you feel that there is a big surprise?

Even the wooing of India by the world powers, given India's growing stature is no surprise to the rest of the world!

 

[Spring Onion]

I again say:

Why is the report being compared with IRAN PAKISTAN INDIA GAS PIPELINE..........

Indian Gas requirement cannot be fulfilled without this Pipeline!

To save India from embarassment

 

[Spring Onion]

China ready to join IPI gas project

* May import 1.05 billion cubic feet of gas per day
Staff Report

ISLAMABAD: China has said it was ready to join Pakistan and Iran in their gas pipeline project if India did not, sources told Daily Times on Sunday. Pakistan plans to import 2.2 billion cubic feet of gas a day from Iran under the project, and has said it was willing to consume an additional 1.05 billion cubic feet if India did not join the project. Sources said that China had told Pakistan it was interested in importing the additional gas if India did not join in. They said Iran had no objection to exporting gas to China. In case China joined the project, the pipeline might pass through Gilgit, they said, where Pakistan has already approved a project to widen the Karakoram Highway. Pakistan also plans to extend a railway track to China to connect it to the Gwadar port. Chinese experts would visit Pakistan to finalise the route of the pipeline if it joined the project, they said. The Pakistani law ministry had vetted a draft of the Gas Sale and Purchase Agreement, they said, but it had not been signed because of differences between India and Pakistan over the transit fee for the pipeline. Pakistan had invited India to negotiate the fee on February 7 and 8 but India said it would talk to an elected Pakistani government after the February 18 elections. Iran and Pakistan may sign the agreement on February 24, a date proposed by Iran, they said. Pakistan had earlier proposed the agreement be signed on January 25 in Abu Dhabi, but sources said Iran had told Pakistan it would only sign the agreement with an elected Pakistani government.

Courtesy Daily Times

that is the great news. by inclusion of Chines will streanthen not only the position of the gasline but would also boost its security further.

 

[niaz]

As most of you are aware, I am an oil trader and have been in the petroleum industry since 1967. Please take it from me that supplies of Iranian gas to India via Turkey is absurdity in the extreme. Just look at the map. Why take the gas all the way up to Ceyhan in Turkey and bring it back via Suez to India. Wont it be much simpler to have an LNG terminal any where in the Persian Gulf or at Chah Bahar and ship it from there.

Both India and Pakistan are short of Energy. Persian/Arab Gulf is full of gas. Largest gas field in the world ( 600 trillion cubic feet, for comparison; Sui gas was 10 trillion cubic feet) is in Qatar. Total Iran gas reserves are approx 975 trillion cubic feet. Qatar gas reserves are almost the same. Only Russia has more proven gas reserves in the world; equal to Iran and Qatar combined.

Pray tell me why would India bring the gas all the way from the Turkish Med. When they could bring it from Qatar or any of the Iranian ports. The whole project is nothing but a hair brained scheme. This does not make economic sense. Alternative to IPI gas pipeline is LNG import from Iran or Qatar. Anything else is not viable.

Even an underwater pipeline would be better than buliding a pipeline to Ceyhan and then shipping it back.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Salim,

On what basis is Pakistan delaying implementation? From what I can tell, Pakistan, while interested in India joining the project due to the potential income from Transit fees, has now been pushing for a signing of the deal earlier than the Iranians (who had given the Indians four months to decide starting from November). The Iranians have postponed the signing till after the new Pakistani Government is in place - a wise move. So I see no interest on Pakistan's side, for lack of "gonads", to delay implementation of the project.

The only "delays" we and the Iranians have indulged in were due to a belief that the Indians were actually sincere in their interest. If India had indicated from the get go that it was not interested then there would have been no reason to keep postponing.

 

[divineflame]

If any body thinks about Indian perspective then its very true that, IPI is most economical way of getting oil. Though only for economical reasons Indian can not go ahead and sign the project.

India is waiting to see Pakistan's internal situation in next few months, which can go either way. Also USA's election can decide Pakistan/Iran's fate. So unless India is very sure about long term sustainability of project, can not participate in the IPI.

As far as Turkey's offer, it is just suggested by them, does not mean that Indian will accept the idea, further, even IPI comes in reality, India will keep exploring other options to its energy security.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

To save India from embarassment

Really?

And why?

I am sure you have some inside information. Therefore, it would be wonderful if you could educate us.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

As most of you are aware, I am an oil trader and have been in the petroleum industry since 1967. Please take it from me that supplies of Iranian gas to India via Turkey is absurdity in the extreme. Just look at the map. Why take the gas all the way up to Ceyhan in Turkey and bring it back via Suez to India. Wont it be much simpler to have an LNG terminal any where in the Persian Gulf or at Chah Bahar and ship it from there.

There is no doubt what you are saying is perfectly logical and there is no doubts about that.

However, if the situation is such that there is no option but to adopt this circuitous route and India has the finances, there is no other options I presume.

It is obvious that shipping to Chabahar would be the most ideal since it would be the least distance by tankers and so lower costs, but it is also a truism that India is not beyond the pulls and pressure of international geopolitics and to believe otherwise would not be realistic.

Both India and Pakistan are short of Energy. Persian/Arab Gulf is full of gas. Largest gas field in the world ( 600 trillion cubic feet, for comparison; Sui gas was 10 trillion cubic feet) is in Qatar. Total Iran gas reserves are approx 975 trillion cubic feet. Qatar gas reserves are almost the same. Only Russia has more proven gas reserves in the world; equal to Iran and Qatar combined.

Pray tell me why would India bring the gas all the way from the Turkish Med. When they could bring it from Qatar or any of the Iranian ports. The whole project is nothing but a hair brained scheme. This does not make economic sense. Alternative to IPI gas pipeline is LNG import from Iran or Qatar. Anything else is not viable.

Even an underwater pipeline would be better than buliding a pipeline to Ceyhan and then shipping it back.

The pipeline to Ceyhan from Baku is the one which the western Oil consortium is to use to pump through the CAR oil and gas.

The Turkish connection and the Israeli pipeline would be another route that will not be in the sphere of Arab politics.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Salim,

On what basis is Pakistan delaying implementation? From what I can tell, Pakistan, while interested in India joining the project due to the potential income from Transit fees, has now been pushing for a signing of the deal earlier than the Iranians (who had given the Indians four months to decide starting from November). The Iranians have postponed the signing till after the new Pakistani Government is in place - a wise move. So I see no interest on Pakistan's side, for lack of "gonads", to delay implementation of the project.

The only "delays" we and the Iranians have indulged in were due to a belief that the Indians were actually sincere in their interest. If India had indicated from the get go that it was not interested then there would have been no reason to keep postponing.

Pakistan is interested in the Transit fees.

India is worried about the guarantee of such oil to flow freely i.e. the security concerns. Balochistan is currently not the ideal security environment. While Musharraf govt would be amenable to ensuring the a safe transit, there is no guarantee that successive govts of Pakistan will be as favourably disposed as the Musharraf govt. Therefore, the concerns are genuine.

Further, when the Iranian Oil Minister visited India, the bone of contention was the Iran hiked the price unilaterally to an unacceptable high.

And to believe that India was not influenced by the US pressure would be naive.

As far as the "gonads" issue, I only used a more PC equivalent to the colourful one you used and wanted to draw your attention that it surprised me since your posts are normally rather staid and factual.

Notwithstanding the above, there is no reason as to why Pakistan should not build its pipeline from Iran, irrespective of whether India wants to join or otherwise.

What has India's not joining got to do with building a pipeline for Pakistan's own needs?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

About the Gonads you are correct. A regretful use of language. Unfortunately I had no time to edit due to other affairs.

On the issue of the concerns India has, I am well aware of them, especially the security issue, but concerns are resolved by participating in talks, and the Indians have been conspicuously absent from many of the recent ones - yet they have not officially come out to decline participation. The security (from the BLA) concerns are not going to vanish any time soon, neither are any of the concerns regarding a "change of heart" with different Pakistani Governments - with the next government you will have concerns about the following government - just drop the project then - why even bother?

It is on that count that I take issue with the Indian stance. The Iranians have clearly come out and said why they wished to delay signing the implementation agreement - the elections.

You are correct that Pakistan has no need for India when the Gas is needed to satisfy its own needs - however the Iranian government was greatly interested because of the possibility for selling more to the Indians as well, and Pakistan was obviously interested in offsetting its own cost by with the Transit fees - we delayed because the Indians said they were seriously interested and that interest would have fulfilled our financial needs as well, and we tried to allay its concerns. We would not have delayed had India said outright that it was not interested.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

India has a serious need for energy and of that there is no doubt.

If India is prevaricating, one should not bother since one has to be more concerned about one's own energy needs. Thus, Pakistan's not implementing the project because of India would be a very shortsighted one, unless, of course, it is because of the cost of the project skyrocketting and end product becoming economically not viable because of lack of Indian involvement.

One wonders why Iran and Pakistan should not get their own act together and further their own interests by putting it into action and not bother about those who are neither here nor there.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

India has a serious need for energy and of that there is no doubt.

If India is prevaricating, one should not bother since one has to be more concerned about one's own energy needs. Thus, Pakistan's not implementing the project because of India would be a very shortsighted one, unless, of course, it is because of the cost of the project skyrocketting and end product becoming economically not viable because of lack of Indian involvement.

The cost may indeed be an issue. In that context the reported intent of China to join in place of India may be of significance. Any "prevarication" has been the result of the parties involved attempting to involve more partners to gain additional benefits.

One wonders why Iran and Pakistan should not get their own act together and further their own interests by putting it into action and not bother about those who are neither here nor there.

That is essentially where we are at this point - pursuing the project without India, assuming that the cost to benefit ratio is not too unfavorable in her absence. The implementation agreement is expected to be signed after the new government takes charge. Till this point there seems to have been a sincere effort on Iran and Pakistan's side to address Indian concerns, so there is no question of Iran and Pakistan not "getting their act together", though there might be if yet again the agreement is postponed due to "new developments" in the Indian position.

 

[mujahideen]

Iran not to wait for India endlessly

NEW DELHI (APP) - Iran has said it could not wait endlessly for India to join Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project, according to media reports here Tuesday quoting Iranian foreign ministry spokesman.
The reports also quoted the Iranian spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini as denying existence of any contract for export of liquefied natural gas to India.
“It (LNG contract) was not agreed. It was not finalised between the two countries in June 2005,” the spokesman said, according to the reports.
A consortium of Indian Oil, GAIL and Bharat Petroleum had signed a Gas Sales and Purchase Agreement (GSPA) for import of five million tons of LNG for 25 years with National Iranian Gas Export Co (NIGEC) on June 13, 2005.
While Tehran has insisted that the contract had to be ratified by the National Iranian Oil Co, the parent firm of NIGEC.
The NIOC has refused to ratify the contract unless the gas price is raised. India has been boycotting trilateral talks on IPI project since July 2007, taking the plea that first it wants to resolve transit fee issue with Islamabad.
Islamabad had invited Indian Petroleum Minister Murli Deora to visit Islamabad on February 7 and 8 but India declined the request saying that talks would be held after elections in Pakistan.

The Nation

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Iran not to wait for India endlessly

NEW DELHI (APP) - Iran has said it could not wait endlessly for India to join Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project, according to media reports here Tuesday quoting Iranian foreign ministry spokesman.
The reports also quoted the Iranian spokesman Mohammad Ali Hosseini as denying existence of any contract for export of liquefied natural gas to India.
“It (LNG contract) was not agreed. It was not finalised between the two countries in June 2005,” the spokesman said, according to the reports.
A consortium of Indian Oil, GAIL and Bharat Petroleum had signed a Gas Sales and Purchase Agreement (GSPA) for import of five million tons of LNG for 25 years with National Iranian Gas Export Co (NIGEC) on June 13, 2005.While Tehran has insisted that the contract had to be ratified by the National Iranian Oil Co, the parent firm of NIGEC. The NIOC has refused to ratify the contract unless the gas price is raised. India has been boycotting trilateral talks on IPI project since July 2007, taking the plea that first it wants to resolve transit fee issue with Islamabad.
Islamabad had invited Indian Petroleum Minister Murli Deora to visit Islamabad on February 7 and 8 but India declined the request saying that talks would be held after elections in Pakistan.

The Nation

Well that is the end of the story!

All lived happily ever after!

Good luck to all.

 

[Spring Onion]

Really?

And why?

I am sure you have some inside information. Therefore, it would be wonderful if you could educate us.

I was talking about comparison between IPI and Turky's offer and not the decision of Turkey to offer