Turkey offers alternative to Iran pipeline

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Shipping oil from Turkey will not be cheaper than getting oil through a pipeline which flows through Pakistan. Oil pipelines are the cheapest way. Your minister is just being delusional if he's suggesting tankers would be cheaper than pipelines.

There is also the problem that, if any of the countries wanted to, Turkey, Israel, Yemen, any of the Gulf States, they could rocket the price of oil to India by just charging extortionate amounts of money for transporting the oil to India. And India of course would have to buy it.

The oil will be taken in such a circumstance from the Turkish port itself.

Israel for sure will not put India to discomfort,

A penny for your thoughts!

 

[Contrarian]

Your tankers have to pass through Pakistan...who's to stop terrorists with speed boats and ATGMs in such a scenario? Or on the political front, who's to stop the PN from just blocking those tankers off?

Excuse me, but do look at the map, considering this particular energy route, no ship has to enter Pakistani waters. They can do directly to the ports in Gujarat or Mumbai.

Secondarily in the high seas, you cannot distinguish b/w Indian and non Indian ships for the PN to block. PN will have to manually board and check each and every ship to determine if its Indian. And mind you, the second any PN ship tries to block an Indian tanker, IN would be all over Pakistani coast.

The only other way is to ship the oil from some port in Africa and directly go to South India...but then there's Sri Lanka & Yemen...countries small or poor enough for Sino-Pak influence.

READ before you talk. India has EXCELLENT relations with Yemen and Oman. Double applies with SL. SL cannot dare go against Indian wishes. Dont peg yourself that is Pakistan to be the 'Sino-Pak'. Its ONLY Pak.
Do look at the map

 

[Contrarian]

Shipping oil from Turkey will not be cheaper than getting oil through a pipeline which flows through Pakistan. Oil pipelines are the cheapest way. Your minister is just being delusional if he's suggesting tankers would be cheaper than pipelines.

Not our Minister, but the Turkish energy experts are saying this. Even if it is more costly than the IPI, it would mean diversification of our energy sources. Something that is needed badly.

There is also the problem that, if any of the countries wanted to, Turkey, Israel, Yemen, any of the Gulf States, they could rocket the price of oil to India by just charging extortionate amounts of money for transporting the oil to India. And India of course would have to buy it.

There are contracts in such deals. Contracts that are fixed with a yearly escalation charge for say a deacade. You cant break that easily.

 

[Contrarian]

Is it possible to put heavy taxes on sea routes near Pakistan for India specific ships and boats? Such expensive transportation requires heavy security.. shouldn't be for free!

Indian ships or Israeli ones dont have to go through Pakistani waters to port in India. And IN is capable enough to escort any ship or keep a route safe in the Indian Ocean.

 

[EagleEyes]

No taxes can be imposed on shipping in international waters!

What is up with the Panama Canal then?

 

[Contrarian]

What is up with the Panama Canal then?

Those are not international shipping waters. That is Panamanian territory. Indian or Israeli ships will not enter Pakistani territorial waters.

 

[MOSABJA]

Well .It might be GOOD IDEA for the Indians to get the oil or gas in the form of LNG from CARS and Turkey .
But no INDIAN can even deny that it would be an expensive option .Since pipeline from Iran to Pakistan and to India will be much less expensive
Than First drilling it from Cent asia.
Then to Turkey
and then in the form of tankers to Mumbai.

This is definitely a LONGER ROUTE
and takners By the way are more expensive than pipeline.

But one thing is clear that Indians If they go to this EXPENSIVE OPTION They would have following reasons for it

1) They might not want Pakistan to have a strategical edge over them.Its in the mind of Indians that Pakistan may arm twist Indians in such a situation.

I THINK THATS ONLY REASON FOR IT .NO OTHER ONE

**The excuse of Taliban blowing pipeline is just a CRAP.this piepline will pass through Gwadar,Khuzdar,Multan and to India .WHERE's Taliban.

**As far as Baloch insurgents are concerned .When Pakistan is gonna get at least 300-500Million $ in Royalty and its own GAS AND BREAD AND BUTTER would depend on this pipe line.Pakistan will Make it sure that Pipeline is as secure as it can be .

** THird argument is that Pakistan is demanding MORE TRANSIT FEES.Thats just a CRAP.Turks will also demand a lot of TRANSITS for supplying Gas to India.

**If India doesnt want pakistan to get transit .Then even this is Crap because there is high possibility that China may get the GAS and Pakistan can get TRANSIT from them



SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT TURKEY OPTION IS AN EXPENSIVE ONE.
WHICH IF ADOPTED.
WILL ONLY BE ADOPTED THAT INDIA DOES NOT WANT PAKISTAN TO ARM TWIST IT OR POSSIBLY DOESnt TRUST.

All other reasons like Taliban,Security are just a cover up

 

[MOSABJA]

As far as Pakistani waters is concerned.

The LNG from Turkey will pass through Mediterranean and then from Seuz canal to the Gulf of Aden and then to INDIA.

I dont think it will have to pass through pakistani Waters.

But all India's oil cannot come through only this one source .Much of it will always come from ME.

Indian oil from ME has to pass through pakistan and can be choked in event of war.

But This one from Turkey cant be.


SO WHAT I THINK IS THAT EVEN THOUGH THIS OPTION IS AN EXPENSIVE ONE

But I think If I was an indian i would like to diversify my energy source as much as possible.

So that if Pakistan chokes ME supplies then India may not DRY OUT because Turkey option may not have OIL SUFFICIENT FOR RUNNING EVERY THING but it will keep them running.So IN EVENT OF WAR IF PAKISTAN CHOKES ME SUPPLIES INDIA MAY HAVE SUFFICIENT TO SURVIVE from Cent asia OPTION.


SO THIS ONE IS EXPENSIVE BUT STRATEGICALLY GOOD OPTION.

 

[su-47]

it'll be more expensive but also more secure. IPI has security risks:

1) US might attack Iran. they may not occupy iran, but they can bomb the pipelines
2) Taliban can blow pipelnes in pak, which would cut off supply to india.

we cant take those risks. india will be in a state of crisis if oil/gas supply is cut off overnight. right now a secure source of oil/gas is more important than a cheap route

 

[EagleEyes]

Those are not international shipping waters. That is Panamanian territory. Indian or Israeli ships will not enter Pakistani territorial waters.

Cool

 

[roadrunner]

The oil will be taken in such a circumstance from the Turkish port itself.

Israel for sure will not put India to discomfort,

A penny for your thoughts!

If the oil is taken from the Turkish port, it'll have to pass through to some port in Yemen perhaps, and then onto India to escape Pakistani waters for sure. If this is the case, it will have to Pass through Saudi Arabia. Both those countries, even Turkey are going to be charging extorionate costs for passage of oil through their country.

If it passes through the Persian Gulf, Pakistani waters is not such a small space, and most of the mouth of the Persian Gulf would be Pakistani waters, the rest Omani waters. There's more taxation there. It's definitely not international waters. All the Persian Gulf is not international waters.

Not our Minister, but the Turkish energy experts are saying this.

As for it being cheaper using this searoute than IPI or TAP, that's a joke. The whole point of the pipeline is to supply a continuous, cheap, efficient energy to Pakistan. If tankers and trucks were better they'd have used them. The Turks might say it's cheaper to convince your population, but reality would suggest otherwise.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

What is up with the Panama Canal then?

Panama Canal is a part of Panama and so there is tax.

Same with the Suez Canal which is a part of Egypt.

It is not applicable in international waters.

Hence, Canals and international waters are two different kettles of fish.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

If the oil is taken from the Turkish port, it'll have to pass through to some port in Yemen perhaps, and then onto India to escape Pakistani waters for sure. If this is the case, it will have to Pass through Saudi Arabia. Both those countries, even Turkey are going to be charging extorionate costs for passage of oil through their country.

Why does cargo taken on board in Turkey have to touch Yemen?

Why should Turkey charge exhorbitent rates when she is the one benefitting by the use of her ports and she has nothing more to do?

If it passes through the Persian Gulf, Pakistani waters is not such a small space, and most of the mouth of the Persian Gulf would be Pakistani waters, the rest Omani waters. There's more taxation there. It's definitely not international waters. All the Persian Gulf is not international waters.

It is time you read the International Law of the Seas and not just go on your own desires and premises!

As for it being cheaper using this searoute than IPI or TAP, that's a joke. The whole point of the pipeline is to supply a continuous, cheap, efficient energy to Pakistan. If tankers and trucks were better they'd have used them. The Turks might say it's cheaper to convince your population, but reality would suggest otherwise.

I have not said it will be cheaper than TAP.

It is our money and I reckon we have enough to ensure that our needs our met and we are not held to ransom at any point of time.

 

[roadrunner]

Why does cargo taken on board in Turkey have to touch Yemen?

Alright see what you mean. It'll go through the southern water strait of Saudi Arabia.

Why should Turkey charge exhorbitent rates when she is the one benefitting by the use of her ports and she has nothing more to do?

Why wouldn't Turkey try and get as much out of India as possible?

It is time you read the International Law of the Seas and not just go on your own desires and premises!

Afaik, international waters do not exist at the mouth of the Persian Gulf. But it doesn't go through the Persian Gulf so that is fine.

I have not said it will be cheaper than TAP.

It won't for sure

It is our money and I reckon we have enough to ensure that our needs our met and we are not held to ransom at any point of time.

I suppose IPI would have passed through Pakistan also. At least India does see the possibility that Pakistan is an important geostrategic player. Going for Turkey for everything is going to lose billions for India probably - The saudis will need funds, and I doubt they are going to make it easy for central asian oil to pass through their territory, unless they are compensated.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Alright see what you mean. It'll go through the southern water strait of Saudi Arabia.

If you understand the facets that govern exclusive economic zones, Internal waters, Territorial waters, Archipelagic waters, Contiguous zone, Continental shelf, right of "innocent passage", etc you will understand why none can interfere with trade.

Why wouldn't Turkey try and get as much out of India as possible?

There was only one who killed a golden goose and it was a story with a moral. Turkey would have surely heard of it and that is why it will ensure that her interest is met without killing the golden goose. And India has the money to address Turkey's legitimate due.

Afaik, international waters do not exist at the mouth of the Persian Gulf. But it doesn't go through the Persian Gulf so that is fine.

Who says so?

Per Article 39 of the UNCLOS, pertaining to "duties of ships during transit passage" ships passaging through the Strait of Hormuz must "proceed without delay" and "refrain from any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of states bordering the strait".

Oil tankers qualify under transit passage and innocent passage.

It won't for sure

Doesn't matter.

Have money, will select source of oil and transit.

I suppose IPI would have passed through Pakistan also. At least India does see the possibility that Pakistan is an important geostrategic player. Going for Turkey for everything is going to lose billions for India probably - The saudis will need funds, and I doubt they are going to make it easy for central asian oil to pass through their territory, unless they are compensated.

A very odd logic.

If Saudis lose funds, are you suggesting that they will bother? They have many customers who line up for their oil and will surely not miss who buys or who does not buy.

And If the oil is taken in tankers from Turkeish port, where does it transit Saudi Arabia?

By your logic, any ship that transits through the Indian Ocean should compensate India and Sri Lanka!!!!

Have a heart!