Turkey offers alternative to Iran pipeline

[Contrarian]

If the oil is taken from the Turkish port, it'll have to pass through to some port in Yemen perhaps, and then onto India to escape Pakistani waters for sure. If this is the case, it will have to Pass through Saudi Arabia.

What contorted map are you looking at? How and where does Saudi Arabia come in the picture? They'v got nothing to do with this.

All the ship might need to do is port in Yemen, nothing else. India is not using Yemen's land for transporting oil or gas over it. There is nothing to be paid except for port charges.

Both those countries, even Turkey are going to be charging extorionate costs for passage of oil through their country.

If it passes through the Persian Gulf, Pakistani waters is not such a small space, and most of the mouth of the Persian Gulf would be Pakistani waters, the rest Omani waters. There's more taxation there. It's definitely not international waters. All the Persian Gulf is not international waters.

Again, if Turkey is the one PROPOSING this idea, you'd think that theyd have worked out some form of tariff that would be acceptable to India.

And the ships DONT have to pass through the Persian Gulf. How the hell did you come up with that?

And even if they had to, they DONT have to cross Pakistani territorial waters. Please look up as to how far from the coast the territorial waters extend. WHich again is DIFFERENT from the Pakistani EEZ, and even Pakistan's EEZ does not cover the mouth of the Persian Gulf.

Dont post what you like as facts here.

As for it being cheaper using this searoute than IPI or TAP, that's a joke. The whole point of the pipeline is to supply a continuous, cheap, efficient energy to Pakistan. If tankers and trucks were better they'd have used them. The Turks might say it's cheaper to convince your population, but reality would suggest otherwise.

Well, if the aim is for energy diversification, then this might not be a great concern if the charge is not much above what it is currently costing India(not the IPI line, the current cost would be a benchmark).

 

[Contrarian]

Alright see what you mean. It'll go through the southern water strait of Saudi Arabia.

NO MAN. Cant you look at a damn map right?

Why wouldn't Turkey try and get as much out of India as possible?

Explained in my last post.

Afaik, international waters do not exist at the mouth of the Persian Gulf. But it doesn't go through the Persian Gulf so that is fine.

International waters do exist at the mouth of the Persian gulf.

I suppose IPI would have passed through Pakistan also. At least India does see the possibility that Pakistan is an important geostrategic player. Going for Turkey for everything is going to lose billions for India probably - The saudis will need funds, and I doubt they are going to make it easy for central asian oil to pass through their territory, unless they are compensated.

Who said for everything. India would be importing oil and gas from every source possible to diversify her sources. That is of prime concern.

And how the heck did you manage to get S.A AGAIN in this discussion?

 

[roadrunner]

What contorted map are you looking at? How and where does Saudi Arabia come in the picture? They'v got nothing to do with this.

Well they do if Israel wants to get the oil into tankers that will cross their waters.

All the ship might need to do is port in Yemen, nothing else. India is not using Yemen's land for transporting oil or gas over it. There is nothing to be paid except for port charges.

Nothing to do with Yemen. Go read your own contorted maps.

Again, if Turkey is the one PROPOSING this idea, you'd think that theyd have worked out some form of tariff that would be acceptable to India.

Turkey might have, you think the Saudis will just allow competitors to ruin their oil market?

And the ships DONT have to pass through the Persian Gulf. How the hell did you come up with that?

Well they don't if you understood the situation properly.

And even if they had to, they DONT have to cross Pakistani territorial waters. Please look up as to how far from the coast the territorial waters extend. WHich again is DIFFERENT from the Pakistani EEZ, and even Pakistan's EEZ does not cover the mouth of the Persian Gulf.

Dont post what you like as facts here.

Check your own facts. So far everything you mentioned is wrong. As for the Persian Gulf, they need to cross Pakistani or Omani waters.

Well, if the aim is for energy diversification, then this might not be a great concern if the charge is not much above what it is currently costing India(not the IPI line, the current cost would be a benchmark).

I doubt all these countries ill harmoniously charge India low transportation fees out of love.

 

[roadrunner]

NO MAN. Cant you look at a damn map right?

Dude, stop being such an ignorant prick. You still haven't grasped what Salim explained in an earlier post. It has nothing to do with Yemen or the Persian Gulf. Dumbass

 

[Contrarian]

Well they do if Israel wants to get the oil into tankers that will cross their waters.

In simple terms, they cant do jack$hit about it, EVEN if they want to. Read what the good Brigadier has posted before me.

Nothing to do with Yemen. Go read your own contorted maps.

I mentioned Yemen as a means for refueling or porting or something of the like. Its not necessary to dock there.

Turkey might have, you think the Saudis will just allow competitors to ruin their oil market?

They cant do anything, they cant levy a charge, they CANNOT stop it, neither make it more expensive.

Check your own facts. So far everything you mentioned is wrong. As for the Persian Gulf, they need to cross Pakistani or Omani waters.

No they dont.

I doubt all these countries ill harmoniously charge India low transportation fees out of love.

What do you mean all these countries? Its only Turkey and Israel that are going to charge a transportation fee. And i can name one country here that can do that.

Apart from that what did i say? I said it can be relatively more expensive than the oil we'r importing right now, but if it helps in diversification of energy sources, then the GoI might deem it good enough.

 

[roadrunner]

If you understand the facets that govern exclusive economic zones, Internal waters, Territorial waters, Archipelagic waters, Contiguous zone, Continental shelf, right of "innocent passage", etc you will understand why none can interfere with trade.

Contiguous zones, and continental shelves are not International Waters.

There was only one who killed a golden goose and it was a story with a moral. Turkey would have surely heard of it and that is why it will ensure that her interest is met without killing the golden goose. And India has the money to address Turkey's legitimate due.

Who says so?

Per Article 39 of the UNCLOS, pertaining to "duties of ships during transit passage" ships passaging through the Strait of Hormuz must "proceed without delay" and "refrain from any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of states bordering the strait".

Oil tankers qualify under transit passage and innocent passage.

So what about the Article? All it says is that ships must proceed without delay through the Strait of Hormuz. If one country does not want some ships from a particular country in the Strait, and it is their territorial waters, they can send out a naval attachment to destroy those ships. It would be legal.

A very odd logic.

If Saudis lose funds, are you suggesting that they will bother? They have many customers who line up for their oil and will surely not miss who buys or who does not buy.

And If the oil is taken in tankers from Turkeish port, where does it transit Saudi Arabia?

By your logic, any ship that transits through the Indian Ocean should compensate India and Sri Lanka!!!!

Have a heart!

Dude, the narrow strait south of South Arabia is where the super tankers will start. They will be in Saudis territorial zone, and so will need to come to an agreement with Saudi on using this strait.

 

[MOSABJA]

the only problem is that you guys dont have a Map.You guys should install an encarta and in the map section Zoom in to ceyhan port and from there towards Indian port.


No here is the route from

1) Port of ceyhan
2) Seuz canal
3) Bab-el-Mandeb strait(b/w saudi arab,egypt,Yemen,sudan)
Bab-el-Mandeb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
4)Gulf of aden(B/w somalia and yemen)
5)To mumbai

India may need an understanding with Saudis,egypt,Yemen e.t.c.I dont know much about international law But this tanker will pass through

Saudi,Egypt,Sudan,Yemen,Somalia waters.

Now I do think that its gonna charge India A LOT

But its not gonna pass from Pakistani waters to be honest.


So for India I think they will go for this option only bcz it doesnt pass through pakistan and this one would be protected from pakistan..But its EXPENSIVE

All other SECURITY reasons are just a cover up..

 

[Contrarian]

Again!
For a tanker to pass through any country's EEZ requires NO levy to be paid by India!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Indians and Turks can do whatever they want - just get the balls to come out and reject the IP(I) plan officially, instead of these perpetual delaying tactics, so the rest of us can get along with our own business....

 

[roadrunner]

Again!
For a tanker to pass through any country's EEZ requires NO levy to be paid by India!!

EEZ are not international waters. You will need to pay for even that. Pakistan does not have to grant anyone free passage through its EEZ, or through its continental shelf.

"(7) In the Exclusive Economic Zone and the air space over the Zone, ships and aircraft of all States shall, subject to the exercise by Pakistan of its rights within the Zone, enjoy freedom of navigation and overflight."
http://www.un.org/Depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/PAK_1976_Act.pdf

 

[roadrunner]

Again!
For a tanker to pass through any country's EEZ requires NO levy to be paid by India!!

EEZ are not international waters. You will need to pay for even that. Pakistan does not have to grant anyone free passage through its EEZ, or through its continental shelf.

"(7) In the Exclusive Economic Zone and the air space over the Zone, ships and aircraft of all States shall, subject to the exercise by Pakistan of its rights within the Zone, enjoy freedom of navigation and overflight."
http://www.un.org/Depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/PAK_1976_Act.pdf

The Saudis can do the same in their strait if they wanted to.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Contiguous zones, and continental shelves are not International Waters.

True.

I threw all the aspects of the Law of Sea so that you don't pull another magical rabbit out of your hat!

So what about the Article? All it says is that ships must proceed without delay through the Strait of Hormuz. If one country does not want some ships from a particular country in the Strait, and it is their territorial waters, they can send out a naval attachment to destroy those ships. It would be legal.

Read and then understand.

If you do not understand what in UNLOS means innocent passage, then what can one do?

If innocent passage is not allowed in any manner then that would be violating the UNLOS.

Thereafter, what follows is for anyone to realise.

Dude, the narrow strait south of South Arabia is where the super tankers will start. They will be in Saudis territorial zone, and so will need to come to an agreement with Saudi on using this strait

.

What has it got to do with oil from Turkey being taken on board at a Turkish port?

Are you suggesting that the Saudis will prevent tankers leaving their oil terminals and going through the Hormuz?

 

[mujahideen]

China ready to join IPI gas project

* May import 1.05 billion cubic feet of gas per day
Staff Report

ISLAMABAD: China has said it was ready to join Pakistan and Iran in their gas pipeline project if India did not, sources told Daily Times on Sunday. Pakistan plans to import 2.2 billion cubic feet of gas a day from Iran under the project, and has said it was willing to consume an additional 1.05 billion cubic feet if India did not join the project. Sources said that China had told Pakistan it was interested in importing the additional gas if India did not join in. They said Iran had no objection to exporting gas to China. In case China joined the project, the pipeline might pass through Gilgit, they said, where Pakistan has already approved a project to widen the Karakoram Highway. Pakistan also plans to extend a railway track to China to connect it to the Gwadar port. Chinese experts would visit Pakistan to finalise the route of the pipeline if it joined the project, they said. The Pakistani law ministry had vetted a draft of the Gas Sale and Purchase Agreement, they said, but it had not been signed because of differences between India and Pakistan over the transit fee for the pipeline. Pakistan had invited India to negotiate the fee on February 7 and 8 but India said it would talk to an elected Pakistani government after the February 18 elections. Iran and Pakistan may sign the agreement on February 24, a date proposed by Iran, they said. Pakistan had earlier proposed the agreement be signed on January 25 in Abu Dhabi, but sources said Iran had told Pakistan it would only sign the agreement with an elected Pakistani government.

Courtesy Daily Times

 

[BATMAN]

The Indians and Turks can do whatever they want - just get the balls to come out and reject the IP(I) plan officially, instead of these perpetual delaying tactics, so the rest of us can get along with our own business....

India will never be part of this pipe line or any pipeline passing through Pakistan. Infect, now India is using it as a hindrance tool to the project.
India can always arrange few blasts on Pakistan gas pipelines as a reason for finally abandoning it.
French president recently visited India and offered almost everything what India is longing to have from US but India seemed not very interested to have those from any other source.
Wait for a big surprise gift from US to India in return.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The Indians and Turks can do whatever they want - just get the balls to come out and reject the IP(I) plan officially, instead of these perpetual delaying tactics, so the rest of us can get along with our own business....

I don't think that anyone can stop Pakistan and Iran to have the pipeline upto Pakistan.

Therefore, India agreeing or otherwise should not halt the project, if it is all important to Pakistan?

So, why is the delay?

Pakistan also pussyfooting?

One wonders, why?

Hardly logical to wonder why India does not have the gonads!

Pakistan should get on with their business and not complain or find excuses!