TURKEY break dependence on Foreign Military Technology ( all projects with details )

[Smarana Mitra]

I'm shocked. Indian folks are usually very smart. Why do I just see either denial or refusal to accept the fact that some other nation in India's category, can make advance weapons? I used to read similar comments about the Pakistani JFT and missile tech on here too and how none of it would ever fly?

I think in your response, you mentioned about 6 times "Semiconductor tech". I know what that is and I am sure the scientists working on these projects already know they need to program the advanced chips. Instead of sounding like an approver, how about if we ask these guys these questions? May be a more productive discussion can be had.

Lastly, without making this a pissing context, I would tell you there are plenty of nations who have and can build advance jets without 30 years of experience. Taiwan, South Korea and Japan are 3 of them.

Taiwan, SKorea, Japan are just USA satellite states and rely on USA weapons. The equipment they manufacture are using tools supplied by USA. They themselves don't know to make them. Even the planes involve heavy imported parts from USA - engine, radar, sensors, seekers, avionics, FBW etc are all sourced from USA. They are just named by Korea or Japan. Without sourcing parts and software from USA, these planes can't even take off.

About semiconductor technology, every modern technology revolves around semiconductor. Every smart weapons, self targeting weapons, target locking mechanism, radar detection mechanism etc work only with the help of semiconductors. This means if any country has to do anything autonomously, it must first develop semiconductor technology. India, China, Russia etc started their semiconductor program in 1970s and it was only after 30 years that they could make any smart weapons. Even in case of USA which started the program in late 1950s and early 1960s took till 1990s to develop smart weapons, UAV, Patriot BMD, LGB, 3rd gen ATGM etc. Turkey does not even have the capability to make semiconductors of basic level (USA in 1970s-80s). No one will give semiconductor technology either. This means that if Turkey wants to have any level of independence, it must first develop semiconductor. Else, all its weapons will be dysfunctional or limited in their abilities

 

[DJ_Viper]

Taiwan, SKorea, Japan are just USA satellite states and rely on USA weapons. The equipment they manufacture are using tools supplied by USA. They themselves don't know to make them. Even the planes involve heavy imported parts from USA - engine, radar, sensors, seekers, avionics, FBW etc are all sourced from USA. They are just named by Korea or Japan. Without sourcing parts and software from USA, these planes can't even take off.

About semiconductor technology, every modern technology revolves around semiconductor. Every smart weapons, self targeting weapons, target locking mechanism, radar detection mechanism etc work only with the help of semiconductors. This means if any country has to do anything autonomously, it must first develop semiconductor technology. India, China, Russia etc started their semiconductor program in 1970s and it was only after 30 years that they could make any smart weapons. Even in case of USA which started the program in late 1950s and early 1960s took till 1990s to develop smart weapons, UAV, Patriot BMD, LGB, 3rd gen ATGM etc. Turkey does not even have the capability to make semiconductors of basic level (USA in 1970s-80s). No one will give semiconductor technology either. This means that if Turkey wants to have any level of independence, it must first develop semiconductor. Else, all its weapons will be dysfunctional or limited in their abilities

Your background is in computer programming I think, thus, your constant full circle in every post ending in "semi conductors"!! And I am shocked to read your post. Japan is the king of semi conductor technology and South Korea isn't behind. If these countries were so far behind like you suggest, India wouldn't be flooded with Japanese and Korean cars today. Common, let's start making some sense into posts. The Koreans JUST test launched an IRBM level missile from their Subs. You think that was "US" supplied tech? Japan builds almost all of it's weapons internally for regular military use. It does buy stuff from the US too. They can't make more than the US allows them due to post WWII agreements. Again, let's start to make some sense in posts. Thanks

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Your background is in computer programming I think, thus, your constant full circle in every post ending in "semi conductors"!! And I am shocked to read your post. Japan is the king of semi conductor technology and South Korea isn't behind. If these countries were so far behind like you suggest, India wouldn't be flooded with Japanese and Korean cars today. Common, let's start making some sense into posts. The Koreans JUST test launched an IRBM level missile from their Subs. You think that was "US" supplied tech? Japan builds almost all of it's weapons internally for regular military use. It does buy stuff from the US too. They can't make more than the US allows them due to post WWII agreements. Again, let's start to make some sense in posts. Thanks

Yes, the Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese use USA supplied fabrication machines for making semiconductors. These countries only supply labour but have no IPR to make the machines. They make the chipsets using the USA supplied machines and then sell to other countries. In other words, these countries have no semiconductor technology. If USA refuses to sell them the machine tools or spare parts, they won't be able to make anything on their own. They don't just have agreement with USA but they have USA military bases to guard the technology. Samsung and TSMC, for example, hosts USA personnel in its fabrication room and R&D facilities who control the USA supplied machines and prevent their black marketing or reverse engineering. So, Samsung & TSMC just act as a body shop with no real technology of its own. Same with Japan.

Japan, Korea can make mechanical items like cars, cranes, heavy machines etc as these are easily learnable items. But semiconductor technology is solely with USA and not shared. This is factual. You can check the tool maker ASML based in Netehrleands, which is the supplier of fabrication tools. ASML in turn sources its equipment from USA.

PS: I have been researching some material about semiconductor online for 5 years and unable to find them. I can find good information on making Uranium or plutonium fission bombs but not even basic information on semiconductor manufacturing or properties. Semiconductor technology is extremely carefully guarded, even more than nuclear technology.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Yes, the Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese use USA supplied fabrication machines for making semiconductors. These countries only supply labour but have no IPR to make the machines. They make the chipsets using the USA supplied machines and then sell to other countries. In other words, these countries have no semiconductor technology. If USA refuses to sell them the machine tools or spare parts, they won't be able to make anything on their own. They don't just have agreement with USA but they have USA military bases to guard the technology. Samsung and TSMC, for example, hosts USA personnel in its fabrication room and R&D facilities who control the USA supplied machines and prevent their black marketing or reverse engineering. So, Samsung & TSMC just act as a body shop with no real technology of its own. Same with Japan.

Japan, Korea can make mechanical items like cars, cranes, heavy machines etc as these are easily learnable items. But semiconductor technology is solely with USA and not shared. This is factual. You can check the tool maker ASML based in Netehrleands, which is the supplier of fabrication tools. ASML in turn sources its equipment from USA.

PS: I have been researching some material about semiconductor online for 5 years and unable to find them. I can find good information on making Uranium or plutonium fission bombs but not even basic information on semiconductor manufacturing or properties. Semiconductor technology is extremely carefully guarded, even more than nuclear technology.

Look man, WTF? You think everyone here is as stupid as you can imagine? Semi conductors were widely used in early 70's in Japanese process engineering. While Mr. Bill Gates was learning to program street lights using BASIC and ASSEMBLY on Semiconductors. Tell me something I don't know and stop this nonsense about "semi-conductor tech". There is no such thing. Semi conductors are simply chips programmed to replace human functions and to bring about automation. Anti Lock Brakes, Bluetooth in cars, GPS, Cell Phones, street lights, all run through instructions put into semiconductor chips.
Let me ENTERTAIN your overly confused smart brain, Intel manufactures it's semiconductors in Malaysia. AMD gets the programming, and chip manufacturing done in Taiwan and Malaysia (soon to add Vietnam into the mix). The Chinese are almost done with two types of chipsets. The Japanese and Koreans both have their own versions.

Lastly, the Japanese are the pioneers of this industry. Both the Japanese and the Koreans have their own technology set and then there is the US. US sells to other nations but competes with Japan, Germany and Korea. Until about 5 years ago, the US cars sucked (the basic models) vs. the Japanese cars. The US auto manufacturers are now including more and more semi's in their vehicles. If there weren't post WWII agreements and NATO's existence. The US today would be competing with Germany, Japan and China as the two additional super power both military and economy wise (in addition to Russia, a large military power). Let's stop writing useless posts and wrong information.

 

[Foinikas]

Lastly, the Japanese are the pioneers of this industry. Both the Japanese and the Koreans have their own technology set and then there is the US.

That.

 

[DJ_Viper]

That.

That......?

 

[Foinikas]

That......?

I mean I agree with you. The Japanese and Koreans are pioneers in that. They were masters of the electronic and electric industry,the Japanese especially even back in the '70s and '80s.

 

[MH.Yang]

Yes, the Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese use USA supplied fabrication machines for making semiconductors. These countries only supply labour but have no IPR to make the machines. They make the chipsets using the USA supplied machines and then sell to other countries. In other words, these countries have no semiconductor technology. If USA refuses to sell them the machine tools or spare parts, they won't be able to make anything on their own. They don't just have agreement with USA but they have USA military bases to guard the technology. Samsung and TSMC, for example, hosts USA personnel in its fabrication room and R&D facilities who control the USA supplied machines and prevent their black marketing or reverse engineering. So, Samsung & TSMC just act as a body shop with no real technology of its own. Same with Japan.

Japan, Korea can make mechanical items like cars, cranes, heavy machines etc as these are easily learnable items. But semiconductor technology is solely with USA and not shared. This is factual. You can check the tool maker ASML based in Netehrleands, which is the supplier of fabrication tools. ASML in turn sources its equipment from USA.

PS: I have been researching some material about semiconductor online for 5 years and unable to find them. I can find good information on making Uranium or plutonium fission bombs but not even basic information on semiconductor manufacturing or properties. Semiconductor technology is extremely carefully guarded, even more than nuclear technology.

Ignorance, arrogance, stupidity.
You know nothing about the capabilities of Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.

They just keep a low profile, but they don't lack strength. You Indians are used to boasting and boasting, so you can't understand and underestimate them.


If South Korea is transferred to the Indian border, and let the two countries go to war. Without external interference and nuclear weapons, I will bet that the Koreans will win.

 

[retaxis]

Ignorance, arrogance, stupidity.
You know nothing about the capabilities of Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.

They just keep a low profile, but they don't lack strength. You Indians are used to boasting and boasting, so you can't understand and underestimate them.


If South Korea is transferred to the Indian border, and let the two countries go to war. Without external interference and nuclear weapons, I will bet that the Koreans will win.

Even Taiwan would conquer Indian in a few months time. It took 1000 British soldiers to conquer India back in the day lol.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Look man, WTF? You think everyone here is as stupid as you can imagine? Semi conductors were widely used in early 70's in Japanese process engineering. While Mr. Bill Gates was learning to program street lights using BASIC and ASSEMBLY on Semiconductors. Tell me something I don't know and stop this nonsense about "semi-conductor tech". There is no such thing. Semi conductors are simply chips programmed to replace human functions and to bring about automation. Anti Lock Brakes, Bluetooth in cars, GPS, Cell Phones, street lights, all run through instructions put into semiconductor chips.
Let me ENTERTAIN your overly confused smart brain, Intel manufactures it's semiconductors in Malaysia. AMD gets the programming, and chip manufacturing done in Taiwan and Malaysia (soon to add Vietnam into the mix). The Chinese are almost done with two types of chipsets. The Japanese and Koreans both have their own versions.

Lastly, the Japanese are the pioneers of this industry. Both the Japanese and the Koreans have their own technology set and then there is the US. US sells to other nations but competes with Japan, Germany and Korea. Until about 5 years ago, the US cars sucked (the basic models) vs. the Japanese cars. The US auto manufacturers are now including more and more semi's in their vehicles. If there weren't post WWII agreements and NATO's existence. The US today would be competing with Germany, Japan and China as the two additional super power both military and economy wise (in addition to Russia, a large military power). Let's stop writing useless posts and wrong information.

Semiconductors in Japan in 1970s? Are you serious? I hope you are not confusing it with PCBs. Many of the instructions can also be given through PCB curcuits and ICs as we can see calculators, LED bulbs, RFID etc. Malaysia packages the chips but has no manufacturing unit.

Germany, Japan, SKorea were all invaded by USA after WW2 and even now USA installed constitution is in place and USA military base is present in all of them to enforce USA's will. Even Taiwan is a USA puppet which started when KMT fled China with USA support. All these countries just do bodyshop work. Germany is USA outpost in Europe to control Euro and hence control EU. USA has no competition from anu of these countries.

Ignorance, arrogance, stupidity.
You know nothing about the capabilities of Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.

They just keep a low profile, but they don't lack strength. You Indians are used to boasting and boasting, so you can't understand and underestimate them.


If South Korea is transferred to the Indian border, and let the two countries go to war. Without external interference and nuclear weapons, I will bet that the Koreans will win.

We all saw how low profile Japan was when it was mighty during 1880-1940. It is really surprising tha you expect Japan to have low profile suddenly! If SKorea is transferred to Indian border, it will be like Bangladesh. Mind you, I don't claim that India is the best and hence deride others. I openly have stated China as a superpower and acknowledged Chinese technology. I will give credit where it is due. I am dismissing Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Germany simply because they are occupied territories having no freedom or technology but are just following USA instructions and acting as USA outpost

 

[MH.Yang]

We all saw how low profile Japan was when it was mighty during 1880-1940. It is really surprising tha you expect Japan to have low profile suddenly! If SKorea is transferred to Indian border, it will be like Bangladesh. Mind you, I don't claim that India is the best and hence deride others. I openly have stated China as a superpower and acknowledged Chinese technology. I will give credit where it is due. I am dismissing Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Germany simply because they are occupied territories having no freedom or technology but are just following USA instructions and acting as USA outpost

1. China is not a superpower. China will never be a superpower.
2. Even in today's China, China surpasses Japan and South Korea only in terms of manufacturing scale. China has no technical advantage, especially to Japan. Japan is still a leading technology country.
3. Don't underestimate South Korea. If India doesn't use nuclear weapons, it really can't win South Korea. I dare to bet South Korea can attack from Calcutta to Mumbai in only one year.

 

[Indos]

Ignorance, arrogance, stupidity.
You know nothing about the capabilities of Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.

They just keep a low profile, but they don't lack strength. You Indians are used to boasting and boasting, so you can't understand and underestimate them.


If South Korea is transferred to the Indian border, and let the two countries go to war. Without external interference and nuclear weapons, I will bet that the Koreans will win.

Yup that Indian @Smarana Mitra has tendency to believe on his own knowledge and make rough assumption.

When I have debate with him he first said that Indonesia doesnt make engine for Toyota. And then I show the pictures of Toyota engine manufacturing in Indonesia, he then respond that the engine manufacturing is new.

LOL then I show him that Toyota engine has been manufactured in Indonesia since 1984 then he silent....Even Toyota engine made in Indonesia is exported to India

Global Manufacturing Company | Manufacturing Product

www.toyota.co.id

He also has belief Indonesia doesnt make many automotive parts and only do assembling process, then I show this to him and he also silent

 

[MH.Yang]

Yup that Indian @Smarana Mitra has tendency to believe on his own knowledge and make rough assumption.

When I have debate with him he first said that Indonesia doesnt make engine for Toyota. And then I show the pictures of Toyota engine manufacturing in Indonesia, he then respond that the engine manufacturing is new.

LOL then I show him that Toyota engine has been manufactured in Indonesia since 1984 then he silent....Even Toyota engine made in Indonesia is exported to India

Global Manufacturing Company | Manufacturing Product

www.toyota.co.id

He also has belief Indonesia doesnt make many automotive parts well then I show this to him and he also silent

As far as I know, in the ASEAN member countries, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia have a good automobile manufacturing. Vietnamese export a lot, but they are not good at making cars.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

When I have debate with him he first said that Indonesia doesnt make engine for Toyota. And then I show the pictures of Toyota engine manufacturing in Indonesia, he then respond that the engine manufacturing is new.

LOL then I show him that Toyota engine has been manufactured in Indonesia since 1984 then he silent....Even Toyota engine made in Indonesia is exported to India

I was partially wrong. I only had researched about 4-5 years back when Indonesia did not have diesel engine manufacturing. Petrol engine may have been manufactured since decades but I am interested in diesel engines only because petrol engines are not very helpful for logistics (trucks/rail) to be used during times of war or crisis. I got wrong because Toyota started manufacturing diesel engines from 2018-19 and hence my knowledge was outdated. Otherwise, my words were reasonably accurate.

Even now, my words are reasonably accurate except for any latest developments. I have researched about Japan, Korea etc in 2017-2018 and haven't yet revised my knowledge base since then. Unless you can show some drastic changes during this period, what I say about Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Germany regarding technology and being USA vassals is 100% true

 

[Smarana Mitra]

1. China is not a superpower. China will never be a superpower.
2. Even in today's China, China surpasses Japan and South Korea only in terms of manufacturing scale. China has no technical advantage, especially to Japan. Japan is still a leading technology country.
3. Don't underestimate South Korea. If India doesn't use nuclear weapons, it really can't win South Korea. I dare to bet South Korea can attack from Calcutta to Mumbai in only one year.

Lol, China is a super power as of now. It has massive manufacturing capabilities, technology and resource base. China surpasses Japan, Korea by a huge margin in technology, Korea, Japan only are vassals of USA living on borrowed equipments made by USA. Yes, Japan has somewhat advanced technology like satellite launcher, But even then, its technology in making satellite is inferior as it imports parts from USA and has restrictions. Japan does not have indigenous semiconductor technology, does not have ballistic missiles, SAM, BMD, nuclear submarines, drug manufacturing technology and various other handicaps. Only heavy machinery is what Japan can manufacture indigenously without USA import. China clearly has a big lead over Japan.

Lol, you are fixated with Korea. It is important to understand that richness is not same as strength. Libya was a rich country but see what it is now for example.