TURKEY break dependence on Foreign Military Technology ( all projects with details )

[WarKa DaNG]

The problem here is development of IIR sensor which is semiconductor intensive. Without any advanced semiconductor, it will always be dependent on imported warhead seeker. Or Turkey will have to resort to older generation and more jamprone seekers as countries in 1980-1990s used.


This will require accurate guidance. We are seeing how Iranian missiles miss targets as they try to shoot long distance targets because of lack of guidance. Guidance again needs semiconductor


Same problem as OMTAS


Development of seekers and guidance will be a major problem. All countries that have anti shipping missiles or other homing missiles have had 20-30 years if refining to develop the exact accuracy. ALso, all countries that have them have semiconductor technology to fabricate reasonably modern semiconductor of 180nm or newer.


Same problem as OMTAS


This will require semicondutor technology, extensive trials and programme to test missile defence. Missile defence can't be made without at least 20 years of trial and testing after acquiring the required semiconductor technology. The computers need extensive processing power to find missiles and then engage it accurately. the radar also needs to be very sharp and fast in finding targets which will also need GaAs semicondutor technology if not GaN. This can't be made before 2045 at least


This is possible like OMTAS but the IIR seeker will have to be imported


Having a radar in a missile seeker will require major semiconductor technology miniaturised enough to act as processor in the missile.


Same problem as GOKDOGAN


Same problem as developing a SAM or ATGM


This is possible to be made relatively quickly as it is relatively simpler technology and torpedo can always be wire guided


Also possible to be made quickly


This is a pipe dream. Turkey does not have any technology to make planes, its avionics, radar, engine etc. There is no country in the world who has made a modern plane without 30 years of experience. Merely designing an engine after having all technology needed will take 10 years for countries like Russia & USA. Developing of the technology from scratch is a process needing 30 years at least


Making IIR is extremely difficult. ASELPOD will requirehighly accurate IIR which can take videos from long distance in HD quality. It requires modern IIR and 1980s one will not do as targeting long distance from fast moving plane requires high amount of detailed pictures


When did Turkey develop GAN manufacturing technology?


Turkey does not have even sounding rockets. How does it intend to launch satellites?

Most of the projects are 25-30 year ones and involve large number of steps and tests at every step. Of course, eventually, everything will be possible. But these are simply meaningless to announce so early and make claims of indigenisation

Do you need any Burnol?? Because i smell some *** getting burned

 

[bsruzm]

Hmm. Do you really believe that Turkey is re-inventing the wheel in all defense applications? Be realistic.

Just to give you a pointer, Lockheed Martin have a lengthy history of contributing to Turkey's defense applications and capacities. Turkish SOM-J cruise missile is the one of the latest projects involving Lockheed Martin. And I am sure that Lockheed Martin isn't the only contributing entity.

Your country have benefitted from NATO bloc in various capacities. You should be proud. Other Islamic countries including Pakistan weren't so fortunate. However, I would lying if I asserted that WE haven't sourced important technologies from the WEST, China and even North Korea to develop a credible defense. Difference is that in our case, smuggling and black markets worked while sourcing important technologies from the WEST; WE have mastered the art of bribing. For the right price, many are willing to sell.

All cool.

Don't be a fool , I said but seems, I can't help it. Your SOM-J example, are you serious? You better stop.

 

[LeGenD]

Don't be a fool , I said but seems, I can't help it. Your SOM-J example, are you serious? You better stop.

Turkish source: http://www.roketsan.com.tr/en/lockh...evelop-mid-range-cruise-missile-for-the-f-35/

very funny ... are you joking or what ?

SOM Cruise Missile has ben developed by Turbitak-SAGE and SOM missile is one of two cruise missiles to be integrated with the F-35 ...

Turkish Roketsan worked with Lockheed Martin, SOM-J variant to be integrated with the F-35
Norwegian Kongsberg worked with Raytheon , JSM missile to be integrated with the F-35

More than mere integration. See above.

Iran and Pakistan took Ballistic and Anti ship Missile technologies from N.Korea and China

Turkey also took T122 , T300 MLRS and J600T Tactical Ballistic Missile technology from China

Yes, I am aware. But thanks.

 

[-SINAN-]

Turkish source: http://www.roketsan.com.tr/en/lockh...evelop-mid-range-cruise-missile-for-the-f-35/


More than mere integration. See above.


Yes, I am aware. But thanks.

Bro, SOM missile is the one on the right. It has been developed by Tubitak way before there were any SOM-J.

Som-J is the one on the left, it's a derivative from the existing SOM missile.

In 24 October 2014 Roketsan of Turkey and Lockheed Martin entered into a teaming agreement whereby the parties would modify, produce and market jointly a new variant of the SOM missile, dubbed SOM-J, for use in the internal carriages of the F-35.

So, there might be some cooperation on SOM-J to an extent but the initial SOM missile had been designed and produced solely by Turkey.

 

[cabatli_53]

Just to give you a pointer, Lockheed Martin have a lengthy history of contributing to Turkey's defense applications and capacities. Turkish SOM-J cruise missile is the one of the latest projects involving Lockheed Martin. And I am sure that Lockheed Martin isn't the only contributing entity.

My friend, LockheedMartin is not a missile manufacturer but a giant system integrator mainly in aerospace sector. They were charged as main contractor to design/develop F35 JSF and when the aircraft got matured, LM falled into competition against main missile manufacturer-Raytheon to supply the cruise missile systems for costumers. In this situation, Raytheon selected Kongsberg, and LockheedMartin selected Roketsan. When the deal signed between LockheedMartin and Roketsan regarding integration of SoM-J into inner payloads/marketing, Roketsan had already commenced development of missiles since 3 years. LM can not contribute development of missile excluding simple design arrangements to fit it into inner payload and integration of missile into JsF mission computers.

 

[LeGenD]

Bro, SOM missile is the one on the right. It has been developed by Tubitak way before there were any SOM-J.

Som-J is the one on the left, it's a derivative from the existing SOM missile.

In 24 October 2014 Roketsan of Turkey and Lockheed Martin entered into a teaming agreement whereby the parties would modify, produce and market jointly a new variant of the SOM missile, dubbed SOM-J, for use in the internal carriages of the F-35.

So, there might be some cooperation on SOM-J to an extent but the initial SOM missile had been designed and produced solely by Turkey.

Yes, bro.

I was referring to SOM-J variant. Refer back to my post # 57 in this thread.

My friend, LockheedMartin is not a missile manufacturer but a giant system integrator mainly in aerospace sector. They were charged as main contractor to design/develop F35 JSF and when the aircraft got matured, LM falled into competition against main missile manufacturer-Raytheon to supply the cruise missile systems for costumers. In this situation, Raytheon selected Kongsberg, and LockheedMartin selected Roketsan. When the deal signed between LockheedMartin and Roketsan regarding integration of SoM-J into inner payloads/marketing, Roketsan had already commenced development of missiles since 3 years. LM can not contribute development of missile excluding simple design arrangements to fit it into inner payload and integration of missile into JsF mission computers.

Friend,

Lockheed Martin have extensive experience in manufacturing different types of missiles through the years. This capability is clearly hinted in its official website: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/who-we-are/business-areas/missiles-and-fire-control.html

I do not doubt Rocketsan's experience in this field but nothing wrong with having a Joint Venture (JV) with another experienced corporation to develop something bigger and better than ever before. At the end of each JV, Turkish firms continue to learn more.

 

[cabatli_53]

Yes, bro.

I was referring to SOM-J variant. Refer back to my post # 57 in this thread.


Friend,

Lockheed Martin have extensive experience in manufacturing different types of missiles through the years. This capability is clearly hinted in its official website: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/who-we-are/business-areas/missiles-and-fire-control.html

I do not doubt Rocketsan's experience in this field but nothing wrong with having a Joint Venture (JV) with another experienced corporation to develop something bigger and better than ever before. At the end of each JV, Turkish firms continue to learn more.

Indeed they have experience but You lost the main frame. Boeing is also producing the Slam missiles but These don’t make Boeing a main missile manufacturer. US mostly forms a concertium among LockHeedMartin, Raytheon, NorthopGrummun to develop and produce the main missile systems and The name of missile is mostly remembered with main contrator. That is the reason the name of some missiles formed with “Joint” word (LM JASSM for exm). Sometimes, They are competing with eachothers while outsourcing the development. LM must be inside of these consertium since the missiles to be developed will be mostly integrated on aircrafts produced by them. SOM-J has a similar story and Roketsan can not do it without asking the manufacturer of aircraft.

 

[bsruzm]

Turkish source:

Are you aware that this has nothing to do with your post of Turkey's access to sensitive technologies? It is about integrating an existing Turkish missile into JSF with some design changes. You still need to enlighten us.

 

[MMM-E]

Can Turkey develop gas turbine Engines for Fighter Jets and Helicopters ?


TEI TS-1400 Turboshaft Engine to replace American LTECH T800
TEI TS-1400 Turboshaft Engine ( 1500shp ) to power T-625 Utility Helicopter and T-129/T-629 Attack Helicopters by 2021

According to General Manager of TRMOTOR , Turbofan Engine will be ready by 2029 for the first flight with the TF-X

.............................................................................................................................................................

TEI manufactures over 800 components for 40 different Engine programs with its more than three decade experience in part and module manufacturing

-- Rotating Parts (Shaft, Seal, etc.)
-- Modules (Power Turbine Module, Front Bearing Structure Module, etc.)
-- Fabricated Parts (Mixing Duct, Swirl Frame, etc.)
-- Structural Parts (Intermediate Casing, HPT Casing, Combustion Casing, etc.)
-- Blisk and Spool Manufacturing (Compressor Stg 1 - Stg 5 Blisks, HPC Spool Shaft Stg 10, etc.)

Blisk and Spool Manufacturing Technologies

Blisk and spool manufacturing technologies, recently being used on new generation engines are regarded as state of the art and advanced level applications for aviation industry which are high tech manufacturing methods currently employed in only a few countries around the world and Turkey is one of them

TEI to manufacture Nickel, Aluminium and Titanium alloys and stainless steel for Turbine Engines


Dinç Project: 240t melting capacity aviation quality stainless steel and nickel-based alloys required to be used in aerospace platforms for the defense industry and civil purposes

The Atom Project: This program aims to develop nickel metal powder suitable for layered manufacturing for aerospace applications

The Elektron Project: Development of a titanium layer process using the Electron Beam Melting (EBM) method.

The Ayna Project: Development of new generation Aluminum alloydevelopment

İnci Project: Manufacturing capability domestically for the titanium alloy parts needed in air platforms through precision casting method

Yakut Project: Project aims at acquisition of the Metal Powder Laser Melting (LAM) process as well as the process modeling capability for manufacturing of functional parts that have advanced mechanical features and can operate under challenging conditions such as high pressure and temperature differences in aircraft engines.

The Dilek Project: backed up by the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries, is carried out by TAI and TEI in collaboration with the aim of developing superplastic forming process for titanium alloyswhich are used in both platform and engine applications in aviation industry, and as a result reducing dependence on foreign sources.

Müge Project: The purpose of program is to develop Magnesium Alloy Casting technology

 

[CAN_TR]

SOM developed between 2006-2011 but we got full ToT for SOM-J from LM

When you talk so much bs and then give SOM-J as example.

 

[LeGenD]

Are you aware that this has nothing to do with your post of Turkey's access to sensitive technologies? It is about integrating an existing Turkish missile into JSF with some design changes. You still need to enlighten us.

Some information in this article: https://www.janes.com/article/54620/cruise-missile-advance-dsei15-d4

Would it surprise you if the exchange of technical data between Lockheed Martin and Roketsan for development of the SOM-J missile included transfer of knowhow of the JASSM missile to Roketsan as hinted by JANES?

Weapons manufacturers of NATO member states are known to collude with each other for development of NATO standards weapons. This aspect is openly advertised.

Even if SOM-J missile is 100% manufactured in Turkey, this does not suggest that Lockheed Martin did not provide much needed technical knowhow to Roketsan for the needful. These collaborations are made known to the public but exact technicalities are not supposed to be public knowledge.

FYI: https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/50125405

 

[bsruzm]

Some information in this article: https://www.janes.com/article/54620/cruise-missile-advance-dsei15-d4

Would it surprise you if the exchange of technical data between Lockheed Martin and Roketsan for development of the SOM-J missile included transfer of knowhow of the JASSM missile to Roketsan as hinted by JANES?

Weapons manufacturers of NATO member states are known to collude with each other for development of NATO standards weapons. This aspect is openly advertised.

Even if SOM-J missile is 100% manufactured in Turkey, this does not suggest that Lockheed Martin did not provide much needed technical knowhow to Roketsan for the needful. These collaborations are made known to the public but exact technicalities are not supposed to be public knowledge.

FYI: https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/50125405

Why are you wasting my time when you can not back your post of Turkey's access to technologies? Name each of those sensitive technologies that Turkey had access to. According to the list of @MMM-E , Turkish access must be huge, and heard. It shouldn't be that hard. NATO is not an organization where member countries share their technologies with each other or grant an access.

 

[LeGenD]

Why are you wasting my time when you can not back your post of Turkey's access to technologies? Name each of those sensitive technologies that Turkey had access to. According to the list of @MMM-E , Turkish access must be huge, and heard. It shouldn't be that hard. NATO is not an organization where member countries share their technologies with each other or grant an access.

I have a simple question for you.

Which engine is in use in SOM-J missile?

 

[MMM-E]

Which engine is in use in SOM-J missile?

KALE KTJ-3200


What about Lockeed Martin for SOM-J ? except integration of missile into the F-35
and what about differences between SOMB1/B2 and SOM-J ?

seekers and guidance systems are same but warheads are different

SOM-J : warhead 140 kg
SOMB1/B2 : warhead 230 kg

SOM-J : IIR seeker
SOMB1/B2 : IIR seeker

SOM-J : GPS / INS / ATR / IBN / TRN
SOMB1/B2 : GPS / INS / ATR / IBN / TRN



SOMB1/B2 and SOM-J same technology with different design and warhead

IIR seeker from Aselsan
Turbojet Engine from KALE
Data Link from Meteksan
Missile Fuel from Tubitak-SAGE
Inertial Measurement Unit from Turbitak-SAGE

100% indigenous and Turkish technology

SOM-J is one of types of missiles in SOM family ( SOM-A , SOM-B1 , SOM-B2 , SOM-J , SOM-C1 and SOM-C2 )

 

[xbat]

I have a simple question for you.

Which engine is in use in SOM-J missile?

Which engine is in use in RAAD missile?