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Traitors...

We're not saying that others are saaf shafaaf but using this muhajir propaganda for money which is ultimate goal of most politicians and redding own streets with own blood is too much
No, others are not, that is established beyond the shadow of the doubt. The question remains same, why are the others not condemned by the assemblies in the same manner? Now Baluchistan assembly was quick in getting a resolution against AH passed and rightly so, where the heck is a resolution against Akbar Bugti who openly took up arms against the state and killed security personnel? Therein lies the discrimination, Mr Bond.
 
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No, others are not, that is established beyond the shadow of the doubt. The question remains same, why are the others not condemned by the assemblies in the same manner? Now Baluchistan assembly was quick in getting a resolution against AH passed and rightly so, where the heck is a resolution against Akbar Bugti who openly took up arms against the state and killed security personnel? Therein lies the discrimination, Mr Bond.

It's the money again sir, they would speak if it benefits them or be silent if that works best for them and in the end you can shortlist a handful of those who decide whether to speak or not. Most 'public representatives' are just political mercenaries working for private interests of their bosses called leaders in Pakistani dictionary
 
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Read the first few pages and we can talk. I don't find myself in the mood of repeating the same things for the nth time, if you are too lazy to even not know what the thread is about and are just trying to jump on the bandwagon. The simple question was "why are other traitors not considered traitors and condemned by the assemblies and people of Pakistan (in the same manner in this case)?"

The so called tag is pretty genuine, you will confirm it in one of your later posts, trust me.


First of all if you want to talk about politicians being labelled as traitors or otherwise then stop playing victim card and mentioning "mohajir" thing here.

Your objection or frustration is why assemblies adopted resolution to condemn Altaf Hussain's drunkard speech then the reply is political parties are working upon own political agendas and under the law they are free to put any such resolution at the floor of the assembly . It is just democratic process . MQM has the right to put any such resolution for voting against any politician/leader/party which it considers a traitor/s. If everyone is voting against you and you find no supporter in this case then there must be something wrong with you so why cry

Simple as that. The tag is just used for exploitation and crying .
 
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Bring prove altaf was drunk , or just stop your nonsense ?lolzzz


I got nothing to prove that he's intoxicated and if he's not, what would happen if he actually gets drunk and then on tv for real
 
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Ofcourse you didn't read the thread, I strongly suggest that you stay away from things which you are unable to process. Maybe start with processing that women are more than some "birth machine" and allow them to vote first in your areas, then climbing on to sophisticated things.
of course that was uncalled for
just because some of us have this tribal culture doesnt mean we are all Chauvinistic Pigs granted there might be more among us but the urbanites also seem to be surprise members of this club
 
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of course that was uncalled for
just because some of us have this tribal culture doesnt mean we are all Chauvinistic Pigs granted there might be more among us but the urbanites also seem to be surprise members of this club

It might have been, but time and time again there is a reminder to be made to those who think their stupidity is a justification for their irrational arguments and need to talk without even knowing what is being talked about. Why should it be a pardonable crime?
 
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of course that was uncalled for
just because some of us have this tribal culture doesnt mean we are all Chauvinistic Pigs granted there might be more among us but the urbanites also seem to be surprise members of this club

Traitors, traitors, traitors Pakistan is the paradise of traitors ?

Some of them powerful some of them weak ?

Ex-intelligence man told US about Osama’s hideout: author







WASHINGTON: The United States got to Osama bin Laden with Pakistan’s help, but disclosed the operation in a manner that made the country look like a villain, according to Seymour M. Hersh, an American investigative journalist and author.

“They helped. They totally helped. They helped a great deal,” said Mr Hersh when Dawn asked him if he believed Pakistan helped the US reach the Al Qaeda leader.

In a story published in the London Review of Books on Sunday, Mr Hersh described the official US version of the so-called “Operation Neptune Spear” as a work of fiction, a fairy-tale.

Know more: Pakistani officials reject claims of ISI handling bin Laden

He noted that the White House still maintains the mission was an all-American affair, and that senior generals of the Pakistan Army and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) were not told about the raid in advance.

“This is false, as are many other elements of the Obama administration’s account. The White House’s story might have been written by Lewis Carroll (the author of “Alice in the Wonderland).”

He argues that if Bin Laden would seek a hideout he would not go for a resort town forty miles from Islamabad.

Would OBL consider it “the safest place to live and command Al Qaeda’s operations?” he asks. “The most blatant lie was that Pakistan’s two most senior military leaders – (retired) Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani (who was chief of the army staff at the time), and Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha, director general of the ISI – were never informed of the US mission,” writes Mr Hersh.

Take a look: Bin Laden finds sympathy after death

In an interview to Dawn, Mr Hersh said the operation that ultimately led to OBL’s death began with a walk-in.

“In Aug 2010 a former senior Pakistani intelligence officer approached Jonathan Bank, then the CIA’s station chief at the US embassy in Islamabad. He offered to tell the CIA where to find (Osama) bin Laden in return for the reward that Washington had offered in 2001.”

The former intelligence official, Mr Hersh said, was a military man who was now living in Washington and working for the CIA as a consultant. “I cannot tell you more about him because it would not be appropriate.”

Mr Hersh rejected the suggestion that Osama bin Laden was living in his own hideout and was free to move around. OBL was an ISI prisoner and never moved except under their supervision, he said.

Mr Hersh said the Saudi government also knew about it and had advised the Pakistanis to keep OBL as a prisoner.

He said when the Americans contacted the Pakistani government and asked for OBL, the ISI insisted that he be killed and his death should be announced a week after the operation.

The Americans were required to say that the Al Qaeda chief was found in a mountainous region in the Hindu Kush so that neither Pakistan nor Afghanistan could be blamed for keeping him, Mr Hersh said.

The author said the ISI wanted him dead because “they did not want a witness”.

According to him, the Americans set up an observation post in Abbottabad and later informed the ISI. Before the operation, the ISI set up a cell in Ghazi, Tarbela, where “one man from the SEALs and two communicators” practised the raid.

Mr Hersh said that President Barack Obama did not consult the then army or ISI chief, Generals Kayani and Pasha, before releasing the cover story that he shared with his nation in a live broadcast.

“The cover story trashed Pakistan. It was very embarrassing for them,” said Mr Hersh. “Pakistan has a good army, not a bad army, but the cover story made it look bad.”

Mr Hersh also said that Shakil Afridi, the physician now jailed in Peshawar for his links to the CIA, was a CIA asset but he did not know about the operation. He was used as a cover to hide the real story.

The Americans, and the Pakistanis, wanted to protect Amir Aziz, a doctor and a major in the Pakistani army. The ISI had moved Dr Aziz close to the compound where they had kept OBL because he was on his deathbed when found.

Obama steps in

Mr Hersh also said that former US Defence Secretary Robert Gates disagreed with the cover-up story and wanted the US to respect the arrangement they had made with Pakistan.

“President Obama changed the game because he was running for re-election,” he said. “The two-hour delay in the speech was caused by an internal debate.”

Asked did his investigation show Pakistan as a villain or an ally, he said: “Total ally.” Initially, he said, “here was anger (in Washington) that they had OBL for years, but did not tell us. But we understand people have their interests and act to protect them.”

He added: “The Pakistanis were treated quite badly by the Americans.”

He said the cover- up story soured US relations with the Pakistani military as it made it look bad. “We have a very strong background relationship with them. It continues and is now in a good shape.”

In the story he wrote for London Review of Books (LRB), Mr Hersh says that when the former Pakistani intelligence official walked into the US Embassy, Islamabad, with information about Bin Laden, the CIA did not believe him.

So the agency’s headquarters sent a polygraph team and the CIA began to believe the Pakistani official only after he passed the test.

Although Mr Hersh spoke to a number of people for the story, including a former ISI chief, his major source was a retired senior US intelligence official who told him that the Americans initially did not share with the Pakistanis what they learned from this retired Pakistani official.

Here is how Mr Hersh tells the story in the piece he wrote for LRB: ‘The fear was that if the existence of the source was made known, the Pakistanis themselves would move Bin Laden to another location. So only a very small number of people were read into the source and his story,’ the retired official said. ‘The CIA’s first goal was to check out the quality of the informant’s information.’

The compound was put under satellite surveillance.

The CIA rented a house in Abbottabad to use as a forward observation base and staffed it with Pakistani employees and foreign nationals. Later on, the base would serve as a contact point with the ISI; it attracted little attention because Abbottabad is a holiday spot full of houses rented on short leases. A psychological profile of the informant was prepared. (The informant and his family were smuggled out of Pakistan and relocated in the Washington area. He is now a consultant for the CIA.)

‘By October the military and intelligence community were discussing the possible military options. Do we drop a bunker buster on the compound or take him out with a drone strike? Perhaps send someone to kill him, single assassin style? But then we’d have no proof of who he was,’ the retired official said. ‘We could see some guy is walking around at night, but we have no intercepts because there’s no commo coming from the compound.’

In October, President Obama was briefed on the intelligence. His response was cautious, the retired official said. ‘It just made no sense that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad. It was just too crazy. The president’s position was emphatic: “Don’t talk to me about this anymore unless you have proof that it really is bin Laden.”’

Obama support

The immediate goal of the CIA leadership and the Joint Special Operations Command was to get Mr Obama’s support. They believed they would get this if they got DNA evidence, and if they could assure him that a night assault of the compound would carry no risk. The only way to accomplish both things, the retired official said, ‘was to get the Pakistanis on board’.

During the late autumn of 2010, the US continued to keep quiet about the walk-in, and Generals Kayani and Pasha continued to insist to their American counterparts that they had no information about bin Laden’s whereabouts. The next step was to figure out how to ease Kayani and Pasha into it – to tell them that we’ve got intelligence showing that there is a high-value target in the compound, and to ask them what they know about the target,’ the retired official said.

‘The compound was not an armed enclave – no machine guns around, because it was under ISI control.’

The former Pakistani intelligence official, described in the story as “the walk-in,” had told the US that bin Laden had lived undetected from 2001 to 2006 with some of his wives and children in the Hindu Kush mountains, and that ‘the ISI got to him by paying some of the local tribal people to betray him.’

The Pakistani official also told the CIA station chief that bin Laden was very ill, and that early on in his confinement at Abbottabad, the ISI had ordered Amir Aziz, a doctor and a major in the Pakistani army, to move nearby to provide treatment.

‘The truth is that bin Laden was an invalid, but we cannot say that,’ the retired official said. “You mean you guys shot a cripple? Who was about to grab his AK-47?”’

‘It didn’t take long to get the co-operation we needed, because the Pakistanis wanted to ensure the continued release of American military aid, a good percentage of which was anti-terrorism funding that finances personal security, such as bullet-proof limousines and security guards and housing for the ISI leadership,’ the retired official said.

He added that there were also under-the-table personal ‘incentives’ that were financed by off-the-books Pentagon contingency funds.

‘The intelligence community knew what the Pakistanis needed to agree – there was the carrot. And they chose the carrot. It was a win-win. We also did a little blackmail. We told them we would leak the fact that you’ve got bin Laden in your backyard. We knew their friends and enemies’ – the Taliban and jihadist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan – ‘would not like it.’

A worrying factor at this early point, according to the retired official, was Saudi Arabia, which had been financing bin Laden’s upkeep since his seizure by the Pakistanis.

“The Saudis didn’t want bin Laden’s presence revealed to us because he was a Saudi, and so they told the Pakistanis to keep him out of the picture. The Saudis feared if we knew we would pressure the Pakistanis to let bin Laden start talking to us about what the Saudis had been doing with Al Qaeda. And they were dropping money – lots of it.

“The Pakistanis, in turn, were concerned that the Saudis might spill the beans about their control of bin Laden. The fear was that if the US found out about bin Laden from Riyadh, all hell would break out. The Americans learning about bin Laden’s imprisonment from a walk-in was not the worst thing.”

Despite their constant public feuding, American and Pakistani military and intelligence services have worked together closely for decades on counterterrorism in South Asia. Both services often find it useful to engage in public feuds ‘to cover their asses’, as the retired official put it, but they continually share intelligence used for drone attacks, and cooperate on covert operations.

“It’s understood in Washington that US security depends on the maintenance of strong military and intelligence ties to Pakistan. The belief is mirrored in Pakistan,” says Mr Hersh.

The writer notes that the bin Laden compound was less than two miles from the Pakistan Military Academy, and a Pakistani army combat battalion headquarters was another mile or so away.

He notes that President Obama’s worries about the information delivered to the CIA station chief were realistic, the retired official said. ‘Was bin Laden ever there? Was the whole story a product of Pakistani deception? What about political blowback in case of failure?’ After all, as the retired official said, ‘If the mission fails, Obama’s just a black Jimmy Carter and it’s all over for re-election.’

Mr Obama was anxious for reassurance that the US was going to get the right man. The proof was to come in the form of bin Laden’s DNA. The planners turned for help to Generals Kayani and Pasha, who asked Dr Aziz to obtain the specimens. Soon after the raid the press found out that Dr Aziz had been living in a house near the bin Laden compound: local reporters discovered his name in Urdu on a plate on the door. Pakistani officials denied that Dr Aziz had any connection to bin Laden, but the retired official told Mr Hersh that Dr Aziz had been rewarded with a share of the $25 million reward the US had put up because the DNA sample had showed conclusively that it was bin Laden in Abbottabad.

Published in Dawn, May 11th, 2015

On a mobile phone? Get the Dawn Mobile App: Apple Store | Google Play
 
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Traitors, traitors, traitors Pakistan is the paradise of traitors ?

Some of them powerful some of them weak ?

Ex-intelligence man told US about Osama’s hideout: author







WASHINGTON: The United States got to Osama bin Laden with Pakistan’s help, but disclosed the operation in a manner that made the country look like a villain, according to Seymour M. Hersh, an American investigative journalist and author.

“They helped. They totally helped. They helped a great deal,” said Mr Hersh when Dawn asked him if he believed Pakistan helped the US reach the Al Qaeda leader.

In a story published in the London Review of Books on Sunday, Mr Hersh described the official US version of the so-called “Operation Neptune Spear” as a work of fiction, a fairy-tale.

Know more: Pakistani officials reject claims of ISI handling bin Laden

He noted that the White House still maintains the mission was an all-American affair, and that senior generals of the Pakistan Army and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) were not told about the raid in advance.

“This is false, as are many other elements of the Obama administration’s account. The White House’s story might have been written by Lewis Carroll (the author of “Alice in the Wonderland).”

He argues that if Bin Laden would seek a hideout he would not go for a resort town forty miles from Islamabad.

Would OBL consider it “the safest place to live and command Al Qaeda’s operations?” he asks. “The most blatant lie was that Pakistan’s two most senior military leaders – (retired) Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani (who was chief of the army staff at the time), and Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha, director general of the ISI – were never informed of the US mission,” writes Mr Hersh.

Take a look: Bin Laden finds sympathy after death

In an interview to Dawn, Mr Hersh said the operation that ultimately led to OBL’s death began with a walk-in.

“In Aug 2010 a former senior Pakistani intelligence officer approached Jonathan Bank, then the CIA’s station chief at the US embassy in Islamabad. He offered to tell the CIA where to find (Osama) bin Laden in return for the reward that Washington had offered in 2001.”

The former intelligence official, Mr Hersh said, was a military man who was now living in Washington and working for the CIA as a consultant. “I cannot tell you more about him because it would not be appropriate.”

Mr Hersh rejected the suggestion that Osama bin Laden was living in his own hideout and was free to move around. OBL was an ISI prisoner and never moved except under their supervision, he said.

Mr Hersh said the Saudi government also knew about it and had advised the Pakistanis to keep OBL as a prisoner.

He said when the Americans contacted the Pakistani government and asked for OBL, the ISI insisted that he be killed and his death should be announced a week after the operation.

The Americans were required to say that the Al Qaeda chief was found in a mountainous region in the Hindu Kush so that neither Pakistan nor Afghanistan could be blamed for keeping him, Mr Hersh said.

The author said the ISI wanted him dead because “they did not want a witness”.

According to him, the Americans set up an observation post in Abbottabad and later informed the ISI. Before the operation, the ISI set up a cell in Ghazi, Tarbela, where “one man from the SEALs and two communicators” practised the raid.

Mr Hersh said that President Barack Obama did not consult the then army or ISI chief, Generals Kayani and Pasha, before releasing the cover story that he shared with his nation in a live broadcast.

“The cover story trashed Pakistan. It was very embarrassing for them,” said Mr Hersh. “Pakistan has a good army, not a bad army, but the cover story made it look bad.”

Mr Hersh also said that Shakil Afridi, the physician now jailed in Peshawar for his links to the CIA, was a CIA asset but he did not know about the operation. He was used as a cover to hide the real story.

The Americans, and the Pakistanis, wanted to protect Amir Aziz, a doctor and a major in the Pakistani army. The ISI had moved Dr Aziz close to the compound where they had kept OBL because he was on his deathbed when found.

Obama steps in

Mr Hersh also said that former US Defence Secretary Robert Gates disagreed with the cover-up story and wanted the US to respect the arrangement they had made with Pakistan.

“President Obama changed the game because he was running for re-election,” he said. “The two-hour delay in the speech was caused by an internal debate.”

Asked did his investigation show Pakistan as a villain or an ally, he said: “Total ally.” Initially, he said, “here was anger (in Washington) that they had OBL for years, but did not tell us. But we understand people have their interests and act to protect them.”

He added: “The Pakistanis were treated quite badly by the Americans.”

He said the cover- up story soured US relations with the Pakistani military as it made it look bad. “We have a very strong background relationship with them. It continues and is now in a good shape.”

In the story he wrote for London Review of Books (LRB), Mr Hersh says that when the former Pakistani intelligence official walked into the US Embassy, Islamabad, with information about Bin Laden, the CIA did not believe him.

So the agency’s headquarters sent a polygraph team and the CIA began to believe the Pakistani official only after he passed the test.

Although Mr Hersh spoke to a number of people for the story, including a former ISI chief, his major source was a retired senior US intelligence official who told him that the Americans initially did not share with the Pakistanis what they learned from this retired Pakistani official.

Here is how Mr Hersh tells the story in the piece he wrote for LRB: ‘The fear was that if the existence of the source was made known, the Pakistanis themselves would move Bin Laden to another location. So only a very small number of people were read into the source and his story,’ the retired official said. ‘The CIA’s first goal was to check out the quality of the informant’s information.’

The compound was put under satellite surveillance.

The CIA rented a house in Abbottabad to use as a forward observation base and staffed it with Pakistani employees and foreign nationals. Later on, the base would serve as a contact point with the ISI; it attracted little attention because Abbottabad is a holiday spot full of houses rented on short leases. A psychological profile of the informant was prepared. (The informant and his family were smuggled out of Pakistan and relocated in the Washington area. He is now a consultant for the CIA.)

‘By October the military and intelligence community were discussing the possible military options. Do we drop a bunker buster on the compound or take him out with a drone strike? Perhaps send someone to kill him, single assassin style? But then we’d have no proof of who he was,’ the retired official said. ‘We could see some guy is walking around at night, but we have no intercepts because there’s no commo coming from the compound.’

In October, President Obama was briefed on the intelligence. His response was cautious, the retired official said. ‘It just made no sense that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad. It was just too crazy. The president’s position was emphatic: “Don’t talk to me about this anymore unless you have proof that it really is bin Laden.”’

Obama support

The immediate goal of the CIA leadership and the Joint Special Operations Command was to get Mr Obama’s support. They believed they would get this if they got DNA evidence, and if they could assure him that a night assault of the compound would carry no risk. The only way to accomplish both things, the retired official said, ‘was to get the Pakistanis on board’.

During the late autumn of 2010, the US continued to keep quiet about the walk-in, and Generals Kayani and Pasha continued to insist to their American counterparts that they had no information about bin Laden’s whereabouts. The next step was to figure out how to ease Kayani and Pasha into it – to tell them that we’ve got intelligence showing that there is a high-value target in the compound, and to ask them what they know about the target,’ the retired official said.

‘The compound was not an armed enclave – no machine guns around, because it was under ISI control.’

The former Pakistani intelligence official, described in the story as “the walk-in,” had told the US that bin Laden had lived undetected from 2001 to 2006 with some of his wives and children in the Hindu Kush mountains, and that ‘the ISI got to him by paying some of the local tribal people to betray him.’

The Pakistani official also told the CIA station chief that bin Laden was very ill, and that early on in his confinement at Abbottabad, the ISI had ordered Amir Aziz, a doctor and a major in the Pakistani army, to move nearby to provide treatment.

‘The truth is that bin Laden was an invalid, but we cannot say that,’ the retired official said. “You mean you guys shot a cripple? Who was about to grab his AK-47?”’

‘It didn’t take long to get the co-operation we needed, because the Pakistanis wanted to ensure the continued release of American military aid, a good percentage of which was anti-terrorism funding that finances personal security, such as bullet-proof limousines and security guards and housing for the ISI leadership,’ the retired official said.

He added that there were also under-the-table personal ‘incentives’ that were financed by off-the-books Pentagon contingency funds.

‘The intelligence community knew what the Pakistanis needed to agree – there was the carrot. And they chose the carrot. It was a win-win. We also did a little blackmail. We told them we would leak the fact that you’ve got bin Laden in your backyard. We knew their friends and enemies’ – the Taliban and jihadist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan – ‘would not like it.’

A worrying factor at this early point, according to the retired official, was Saudi Arabia, which had been financing bin Laden’s upkeep since his seizure by the Pakistanis.

“The Saudis didn’t want bin Laden’s presence revealed to us because he was a Saudi, and so they told the Pakistanis to keep him out of the picture. The Saudis feared if we knew we would pressure the Pakistanis to let bin Laden start talking to us about what the Saudis had been doing with Al Qaeda. And they were dropping money – lots of it.

“The Pakistanis, in turn, were concerned that the Saudis might spill the beans about their control of bin Laden. The fear was that if the US found out about bin Laden from Riyadh, all hell would break out. The Americans learning about bin Laden’s imprisonment from a walk-in was not the worst thing.”

Despite their constant public feuding, American and Pakistani military and intelligence services have worked together closely for decades on counterterrorism in South Asia. Both services often find it useful to engage in public feuds ‘to cover their asses’, as the retired official put it, but they continually share intelligence used for drone attacks, and cooperate on covert operations.

“It’s understood in Washington that US security depends on the maintenance of strong military and intelligence ties to Pakistan. The belief is mirrored in Pakistan,” says Mr Hersh.

The writer notes that the bin Laden compound was less than two miles from the Pakistan Military Academy, and a Pakistani army combat battalion headquarters was another mile or so away.

He notes that President Obama’s worries about the information delivered to the CIA station chief were realistic, the retired official said. ‘Was bin Laden ever there? Was the whole story a product of Pakistani deception? What about political blowback in case of failure?’ After all, as the retired official said, ‘If the mission fails, Obama’s just a black Jimmy Carter and it’s all over for re-election.’

Mr Obama was anxious for reassurance that the US was going to get the right man. The proof was to come in the form of bin Laden’s DNA. The planners turned for help to Generals Kayani and Pasha, who asked Dr Aziz to obtain the specimens. Soon after the raid the press found out that Dr Aziz had been living in a house near the bin Laden compound: local reporters discovered his name in Urdu on a plate on the door. Pakistani officials denied that Dr Aziz had any connection to bin Laden, but the retired official told Mr Hersh that Dr Aziz had been rewarded with a share of the $25 million reward the US had put up because the DNA sample had showed conclusively that it was bin Laden in Abbottabad.

Published in Dawn, May 11th, 2015

On a mobile phone? Get the Dawn Mobile App: Apple Store | Google Play
Ex Intelligence man didn't told about Osama ISI itself told about and Pakistani leaders knew it from day one I mean Army leadership when operation was being planned. USA and India also have several traitors lot more than us.
 
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Traitors, traitors, traitors Pakistan is the paradise of traitors ?

Some of them powerful some of them weak ?

Ex-intelligence man told US about Osama’s hideout: author







WASHINGTON: The United States got to Osama bin Laden with Pakistan’s help, but disclosed the operation in a manner that made the country look like a villain, according to Seymour M. Hersh, an American investigative journalist and author.

“They helped. They totally helped. They helped a great deal,” said Mr Hersh when Dawn asked him if he believed Pakistan helped the US reach the Al Qaeda leader.

In a story published in the London Review of Books on Sunday, Mr Hersh described the official US version of the so-called “Operation Neptune Spear” as a work of fiction, a fairy-tale.

Know more: Pakistani officials reject claims of ISI handling bin Laden

He noted that the White House still maintains the mission was an all-American affair, and that senior generals of the Pakistan Army and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) were not told about the raid in advance.

“This is false, as are many other elements of the Obama administration’s account. The White House’s story might have been written by Lewis Carroll (the author of “Alice in the Wonderland).”

He argues that if Bin Laden would seek a hideout he would not go for a resort town forty miles from Islamabad.

Would OBL consider it “the safest place to live and command Al Qaeda’s operations?” he asks. “The most blatant lie was that Pakistan’s two most senior military leaders – (retired) Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani (who was chief of the army staff at the time), and Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha, director general of the ISI – were never informed of the US mission,” writes Mr Hersh.

Take a look: Bin Laden finds sympathy after death

In an interview to Dawn, Mr Hersh said the operation that ultimately led to OBL’s death began with a walk-in.

“In Aug 2010 a former senior Pakistani intelligence officer approached Jonathan Bank, then the CIA’s station chief at the US embassy in Islamabad. He offered to tell the CIA where to find (Osama) bin Laden in return for the reward that Washington had offered in 2001.”

The former intelligence official, Mr Hersh said, was a military man who was now living in Washington and working for the CIA as a consultant. “I cannot tell you more about him because it would not be appropriate.”

Mr Hersh rejected the suggestion that Osama bin Laden was living in his own hideout and was free to move around. OBL was an ISI prisoner and never moved except under their supervision, he said.

Mr Hersh said the Saudi government also knew about it and had advised the Pakistanis to keep OBL as a prisoner.

He said when the Americans contacted the Pakistani government and asked for OBL, the ISI insisted that he be killed and his death should be announced a week after the operation.

The Americans were required to say that the Al Qaeda chief was found in a mountainous region in the Hindu Kush so that neither Pakistan nor Afghanistan could be blamed for keeping him, Mr Hersh said.

The author said the ISI wanted him dead because “they did not want a witness”.

According to him, the Americans set up an observation post in Abbottabad and later informed the ISI. Before the operation, the ISI set up a cell in Ghazi, Tarbela, where “one man from the SEALs and two communicators” practised the raid.

Mr Hersh said that President Barack Obama did not consult the then army or ISI chief, Generals Kayani and Pasha, before releasing the cover story that he shared with his nation in a live broadcast.

“The cover story trashed Pakistan. It was very embarrassing for them,” said Mr Hersh. “Pakistan has a good army, not a bad army, but the cover story made it look bad.”

Mr Hersh also said that Shakil Afridi, the physician now jailed in Peshawar for his links to the CIA, was a CIA asset but he did not know about the operation. He was used as a cover to hide the real story.

The Americans, and the Pakistanis, wanted to protect Amir Aziz, a doctor and a major in the Pakistani army. The ISI had moved Dr Aziz close to the compound where they had kept OBL because he was on his deathbed when found.

Obama steps in

Mr Hersh also said that former US Defence Secretary Robert Gates disagreed with the cover-up story and wanted the US to respect the arrangement they had made with Pakistan.

“President Obama changed the game because he was running for re-election,” he said. “The two-hour delay in the speech was caused by an internal debate.”

Asked did his investigation show Pakistan as a villain or an ally, he said: “Total ally.” Initially, he said, “here was anger (in Washington) that they had OBL for years, but did not tell us. But we understand people have their interests and act to protect them.”

He added: “The Pakistanis were treated quite badly by the Americans.”

He said the cover- up story soured US relations with the Pakistani military as it made it look bad. “We have a very strong background relationship with them. It continues and is now in a good shape.”

In the story he wrote for London Review of Books (LRB), Mr Hersh says that when the former Pakistani intelligence official walked into the US Embassy, Islamabad, with information about Bin Laden, the CIA did not believe him.

So the agency’s headquarters sent a polygraph team and the CIA began to believe the Pakistani official only after he passed the test.

Although Mr Hersh spoke to a number of people for the story, including a former ISI chief, his major source was a retired senior US intelligence official who told him that the Americans initially did not share with the Pakistanis what they learned from this retired Pakistani official.

Here is how Mr Hersh tells the story in the piece he wrote for LRB: ‘The fear was that if the existence of the source was made known, the Pakistanis themselves would move Bin Laden to another location. So only a very small number of people were read into the source and his story,’ the retired official said. ‘The CIA’s first goal was to check out the quality of the informant’s information.’

The compound was put under satellite surveillance.

The CIA rented a house in Abbottabad to use as a forward observation base and staffed it with Pakistani employees and foreign nationals. Later on, the base would serve as a contact point with the ISI; it attracted little attention because Abbottabad is a holiday spot full of houses rented on short leases. A psychological profile of the informant was prepared. (The informant and his family were smuggled out of Pakistan and relocated in the Washington area. He is now a consultant for the CIA.)

‘By October the military and intelligence community were discussing the possible military options. Do we drop a bunker buster on the compound or take him out with a drone strike? Perhaps send someone to kill him, single assassin style? But then we’d have no proof of who he was,’ the retired official said. ‘We could see some guy is walking around at night, but we have no intercepts because there’s no commo coming from the compound.’

In October, President Obama was briefed on the intelligence. His response was cautious, the retired official said. ‘It just made no sense that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad. It was just too crazy. The president’s position was emphatic: “Don’t talk to me about this anymore unless you have proof that it really is bin Laden.”’

Obama support

The immediate goal of the CIA leadership and the Joint Special Operations Command was to get Mr Obama’s support. They believed they would get this if they got DNA evidence, and if they could assure him that a night assault of the compound would carry no risk. The only way to accomplish both things, the retired official said, ‘was to get the Pakistanis on board’.

During the late autumn of 2010, the US continued to keep quiet about the walk-in, and Generals Kayani and Pasha continued to insist to their American counterparts that they had no information about bin Laden’s whereabouts. The next step was to figure out how to ease Kayani and Pasha into it – to tell them that we’ve got intelligence showing that there is a high-value target in the compound, and to ask them what they know about the target,’ the retired official said.

‘The compound was not an armed enclave – no machine guns around, because it was under ISI control.’

The former Pakistani intelligence official, described in the story as “the walk-in,” had told the US that bin Laden had lived undetected from 2001 to 2006 with some of his wives and children in the Hindu Kush mountains, and that ‘the ISI got to him by paying some of the local tribal people to betray him.’

The Pakistani official also told the CIA station chief that bin Laden was very ill, and that early on in his confinement at Abbottabad, the ISI had ordered Amir Aziz, a doctor and a major in the Pakistani army, to move nearby to provide treatment.

‘The truth is that bin Laden was an invalid, but we cannot say that,’ the retired official said. “You mean you guys shot a cripple? Who was about to grab his AK-47?”’

‘It didn’t take long to get the co-operation we needed, because the Pakistanis wanted to ensure the continued release of American military aid, a good percentage of which was anti-terrorism funding that finances personal security, such as bullet-proof limousines and security guards and housing for the ISI leadership,’ the retired official said.

He added that there were also under-the-table personal ‘incentives’ that were financed by off-the-books Pentagon contingency funds.

‘The intelligence community knew what the Pakistanis needed to agree – there was the carrot. And they chose the carrot. It was a win-win. We also did a little blackmail. We told them we would leak the fact that you’ve got bin Laden in your backyard. We knew their friends and enemies’ – the Taliban and jihadist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan – ‘would not like it.’

A worrying factor at this early point, according to the retired official, was Saudi Arabia, which had been financing bin Laden’s upkeep since his seizure by the Pakistanis.

“The Saudis didn’t want bin Laden’s presence revealed to us because he was a Saudi, and so they told the Pakistanis to keep him out of the picture. The Saudis feared if we knew we would pressure the Pakistanis to let bin Laden start talking to us about what the Saudis had been doing with Al Qaeda. And they were dropping money – lots of it.

“The Pakistanis, in turn, were concerned that the Saudis might spill the beans about their control of bin Laden. The fear was that if the US found out about bin Laden from Riyadh, all hell would break out. The Americans learning about bin Laden’s imprisonment from a walk-in was not the worst thing.”

Despite their constant public feuding, American and Pakistani military and intelligence services have worked together closely for decades on counterterrorism in South Asia. Both services often find it useful to engage in public feuds ‘to cover their asses’, as the retired official put it, but they continually share intelligence used for drone attacks, and cooperate on covert operations.

“It’s understood in Washington that US security depends on the maintenance of strong military and intelligence ties to Pakistan. The belief is mirrored in Pakistan,” says Mr Hersh.

The writer notes that the bin Laden compound was less than two miles from the Pakistan Military Academy, and a Pakistani army combat battalion headquarters was another mile or so away.

He notes that President Obama’s worries about the information delivered to the CIA station chief were realistic, the retired official said. ‘Was bin Laden ever there? Was the whole story a product of Pakistani deception? What about political blowback in case of failure?’ After all, as the retired official said, ‘If the mission fails, Obama’s just a black Jimmy Carter and it’s all over for re-election.’

Mr Obama was anxious for reassurance that the US was going to get the right man. The proof was to come in the form of bin Laden’s DNA. The planners turned for help to Generals Kayani and Pasha, who asked Dr Aziz to obtain the specimens. Soon after the raid the press found out that Dr Aziz had been living in a house near the bin Laden compound: local reporters discovered his name in Urdu on a plate on the door. Pakistani officials denied that Dr Aziz had any connection to bin Laden, but the retired official told Mr Hersh that Dr Aziz had been rewarded with a share of the $25 million reward the US had put up because the DNA sample had showed conclusively that it was bin Laden in Abbottabad.

Published in Dawn, May 11th, 2015

On a mobile phone? Get the Dawn Mobile App: Apple Store | Google Play
this is the wrong place for this piece its very interesting but has some flaws too. I guess it needs its own section with gen Chisti's interview and whatever has been written by the west on OBL.
 
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Traitors, traitors, traitors Pakistan is the paradise of traitors ?

Some of them powerful some of them weak ?

Ex-intelligence man told US about Osama’s hideout: author







WASHINGTON: The United States got to Osama bin Laden with Pakistan’s help, but disclosed the operation in a manner that made the country look like a villain, according to Seymour M. Hersh, an American investigative journalist and author.

“They helped. They totally helped. They helped a great deal,” said Mr Hersh when Dawn asked him if he believed Pakistan helped the US reach the Al Qaeda leader.

In a story published in the London Review of Books on Sunday, Mr Hersh described the official US version of the so-called “Operation Neptune Spear” as a work of fiction, a fairy-tale.

Know more: Pakistani officials reject claims of ISI handling bin Laden

He noted that the White House still maintains the mission was an all-American affair, and that senior generals of the Pakistan Army and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) were not told about the raid in advance.

“This is false, as are many other elements of the Obama administration’s account. The White House’s story might have been written by Lewis Carroll (the author of “Alice in the Wonderland).”

He argues that if Bin Laden would seek a hideout he would not go for a resort town forty miles from Islamabad.

Would OBL consider it “the safest place to live and command Al Qaeda’s operations?” he asks. “The most blatant lie was that Pakistan’s two most senior military leaders – (retired) Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani (who was chief of the army staff at the time), and Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha, director general of the ISI – were never informed of the US mission,” writes Mr Hersh.

Take a look: Bin Laden finds sympathy after death

In an interview to Dawn, Mr Hersh said the operation that ultimately led to OBL’s death began with a walk-in.

“In Aug 2010 a former senior Pakistani intelligence officer approached Jonathan Bank, then the CIA’s station chief at the US embassy in Islamabad. He offered to tell the CIA where to find (Osama) bin Laden in return for the reward that Washington had offered in 2001.”

The former intelligence official, Mr Hersh said, was a military man who was now living in Washington and working for the CIA as a consultant. “I cannot tell you more about him because it would not be appropriate.”

Mr Hersh rejected the suggestion that Osama bin Laden was living in his own hideout and was free to move around. OBL was an ISI prisoner and never moved except under their supervision, he said.

Mr Hersh said the Saudi government also knew about it and had advised the Pakistanis to keep OBL as a prisoner.

He said when the Americans contacted the Pakistani government and asked for OBL, the ISI insisted that he be killed and his death should be announced a week after the operation.

The Americans were required to say that the Al Qaeda chief was found in a mountainous region in the Hindu Kush so that neither Pakistan nor Afghanistan could be blamed for keeping him, Mr Hersh said.

The author said the ISI wanted him dead because “they did not want a witness”.

According to him, the Americans set up an observation post in Abbottabad and later informed the ISI. Before the operation, the ISI set up a cell in Ghazi, Tarbela, where “one man from the SEALs and two communicators” practised the raid.

Mr Hersh said that President Barack Obama did not consult the then army or ISI chief, Generals Kayani and Pasha, before releasing the cover story that he shared with his nation in a live broadcast.

“The cover story trashed Pakistan. It was very embarrassing for them,” said Mr Hersh. “Pakistan has a good army, not a bad army, but the cover story made it look bad.”

Mr Hersh also said that Shakil Afridi, the physician now jailed in Peshawar for his links to the CIA, was a CIA asset but he did not know about the operation. He was used as a cover to hide the real story.

The Americans, and the Pakistanis, wanted to protect Amir Aziz, a doctor and a major in the Pakistani army. The ISI had moved Dr Aziz close to the compound where they had kept OBL because he was on his deathbed when found.

Obama steps in

Mr Hersh also said that former US Defence Secretary Robert Gates disagreed with the cover-up story and wanted the US to respect the arrangement they had made with Pakistan.

“President Obama changed the game because he was running for re-election,” he said. “The two-hour delay in the speech was caused by an internal debate.”

Asked did his investigation show Pakistan as a villain or an ally, he said: “Total ally.” Initially, he said, “here was anger (in Washington) that they had OBL for years, but did not tell us. But we understand people have their interests and act to protect them.”

He added: “The Pakistanis were treated quite badly by the Americans.”

He said the cover- up story soured US relations with the Pakistani military as it made it look bad. “We have a very strong background relationship with them. It continues and is now in a good shape.”

In the story he wrote for London Review of Books (LRB), Mr Hersh says that when the former Pakistani intelligence official walked into the US Embassy, Islamabad, with information about Bin Laden, the CIA did not believe him.

So the agency’s headquarters sent a polygraph team and the CIA began to believe the Pakistani official only after he passed the test.

Although Mr Hersh spoke to a number of people for the story, including a former ISI chief, his major source was a retired senior US intelligence official who told him that the Americans initially did not share with the Pakistanis what they learned from this retired Pakistani official.

Here is how Mr Hersh tells the story in the piece he wrote for LRB: ‘The fear was that if the existence of the source was made known, the Pakistanis themselves would move Bin Laden to another location. So only a very small number of people were read into the source and his story,’ the retired official said. ‘The CIA’s first goal was to check out the quality of the informant’s information.’

The compound was put under satellite surveillance.

The CIA rented a house in Abbottabad to use as a forward observation base and staffed it with Pakistani employees and foreign nationals. Later on, the base would serve as a contact point with the ISI; it attracted little attention because Abbottabad is a holiday spot full of houses rented on short leases. A psychological profile of the informant was prepared. (The informant and his family were smuggled out of Pakistan and relocated in the Washington area. He is now a consultant for the CIA.)

‘By October the military and intelligence community were discussing the possible military options. Do we drop a bunker buster on the compound or take him out with a drone strike? Perhaps send someone to kill him, single assassin style? But then we’d have no proof of who he was,’ the retired official said. ‘We could see some guy is walking around at night, but we have no intercepts because there’s no commo coming from the compound.’

In October, President Obama was briefed on the intelligence. His response was cautious, the retired official said. ‘It just made no sense that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad. It was just too crazy. The president’s position was emphatic: “Don’t talk to me about this anymore unless you have proof that it really is bin Laden.”’

Obama support

The immediate goal of the CIA leadership and the Joint Special Operations Command was to get Mr Obama’s support. They believed they would get this if they got DNA evidence, and if they could assure him that a night assault of the compound would carry no risk. The only way to accomplish both things, the retired official said, ‘was to get the Pakistanis on board’.

During the late autumn of 2010, the US continued to keep quiet about the walk-in, and Generals Kayani and Pasha continued to insist to their American counterparts that they had no information about bin Laden’s whereabouts. The next step was to figure out how to ease Kayani and Pasha into it – to tell them that we’ve got intelligence showing that there is a high-value target in the compound, and to ask them what they know about the target,’ the retired official said.

‘The compound was not an armed enclave – no machine guns around, because it was under ISI control.’

The former Pakistani intelligence official, described in the story as “the walk-in,” had told the US that bin Laden had lived undetected from 2001 to 2006 with some of his wives and children in the Hindu Kush mountains, and that ‘the ISI got to him by paying some of the local tribal people to betray him.’

The Pakistani official also told the CIA station chief that bin Laden was very ill, and that early on in his confinement at Abbottabad, the ISI had ordered Amir Aziz, a doctor and a major in the Pakistani army, to move nearby to provide treatment.

‘The truth is that bin Laden was an invalid, but we cannot say that,’ the retired official said. “You mean you guys shot a cripple? Who was about to grab his AK-47?”’

‘It didn’t take long to get the co-operation we needed, because the Pakistanis wanted to ensure the continued release of American military aid, a good percentage of which was anti-terrorism funding that finances personal security, such as bullet-proof limousines and security guards and housing for the ISI leadership,’ the retired official said.

He added that there were also under-the-table personal ‘incentives’ that were financed by off-the-books Pentagon contingency funds.

‘The intelligence community knew what the Pakistanis needed to agree – there was the carrot. And they chose the carrot. It was a win-win. We also did a little blackmail. We told them we would leak the fact that you’ve got bin Laden in your backyard. We knew their friends and enemies’ – the Taliban and jihadist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan – ‘would not like it.’

A worrying factor at this early point, according to the retired official, was Saudi Arabia, which had been financing bin Laden’s upkeep since his seizure by the Pakistanis.

“The Saudis didn’t want bin Laden’s presence revealed to us because he was a Saudi, and so they told the Pakistanis to keep him out of the picture. The Saudis feared if we knew we would pressure the Pakistanis to let bin Laden start talking to us about what the Saudis had been doing with Al Qaeda. And they were dropping money – lots of it.

“The Pakistanis, in turn, were concerned that the Saudis might spill the beans about their control of bin Laden. The fear was that if the US found out about bin Laden from Riyadh, all hell would break out. The Americans learning about bin Laden’s imprisonment from a walk-in was not the worst thing.”

Despite their constant public feuding, American and Pakistani military and intelligence services have worked together closely for decades on counterterrorism in South Asia. Both services often find it useful to engage in public feuds ‘to cover their asses’, as the retired official put it, but they continually share intelligence used for drone attacks, and cooperate on covert operations.

“It’s understood in Washington that US security depends on the maintenance of strong military and intelligence ties to Pakistan. The belief is mirrored in Pakistan,” says Mr Hersh.

The writer notes that the bin Laden compound was less than two miles from the Pakistan Military Academy, and a Pakistani army combat battalion headquarters was another mile or so away.

He notes that President Obama’s worries about the information delivered to the CIA station chief were realistic, the retired official said. ‘Was bin Laden ever there? Was the whole story a product of Pakistani deception? What about political blowback in case of failure?’ After all, as the retired official said, ‘If the mission fails, Obama’s just a black Jimmy Carter and it’s all over for re-election.’

Mr Obama was anxious for reassurance that the US was going to get the right man. The proof was to come in the form of bin Laden’s DNA. The planners turned for help to Generals Kayani and Pasha, who asked Dr Aziz to obtain the specimens. Soon after the raid the press found out that Dr Aziz had been living in a house near the bin Laden compound: local reporters discovered his name in Urdu on a plate on the door. Pakistani officials denied that Dr Aziz had any connection to bin Laden, but the retired official told Mr Hersh that Dr Aziz had been rewarded with a share of the $25 million reward the US had put up because the DNA sample had showed conclusively that it was bin Laden in Abbottabad.

Published in Dawn, May 11th, 2015

On a mobile phone? Get the Dawn Mobile App: Apple Store | Google Play
Not the place , i know . What's with that signature ? what have i done to bleed ? lolz , dude change it .
 
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It is easy to target Altaf for:

a) He is not son of the soil.
b) His speeches are in Urdu, which everybody can understand.

If people get to listen to (and most importantly understand) speeches from GM Syed, Mumtaz Bhutto, Bashir Khan Qureshi , Bacha Khan, Wali Khan, Isfand Yar Wali, Mahmood Khan Achakzai, Ata ullah Mengal etc., type of the so-called 'qoum parast', they'll have to re-invent the meaning of 'traitor.

یہ لوگ پاکستان اور فوج کے خلاف اس سے کہیں ذیادہ گھٹیا اور غلیظ زبان استعمال کرتے ہیں جس کے لیے الطاف کو گالیاں دی جاتی ہیں۔ اس حمام میں تو بھائ سب ایک سے بڑھ کر ایک نںگے ہیں۔
 
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Not the place , i know . What's with that signature ? what have i done to bleed ? lolz , dude change it .
Out of topic reported !
@mods don't start screaming on me, if take the kid to the cleaners ?
Dam kid , your time is up !:triniti:

this is the wrong place for this piece its very interesting but has some flaws too. I guess it needs its own section with gen Chisti's interview and whatever has been written by the west on OBL.
It can be adjusted any where you want , Pakistani politics been around it ?
NRO done before that, genrl kiyani & pasha both sold the dead man , while musharaf used him to get cash from west ?
 
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ISLAMABAD (Dunya News) – Pakistan Muslim League Quaid-e-Azam (PML-Q) chief Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain has proposed amendment in Article 6 of the Constitution of Pakistan.

The PML-Q chief on Tuesday sent the draft of the proposed amendment to the Senate Secretariat.

According to the proposed draft, the word ‘high treason’ should be replaced with ‘crime against the state’ in sub-sections 1, 2 and 3 of Article 6 of the 1973 Constitution of Pakistan.

Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain said that the word ‘treason’ reflects the impression that an accused has joined enemies of the country.

He also suggested removing such words from sections 121 and 130 of Pakistan Penal Code and said that change should also be made in Criminal Law Act 1973.

Earlier on Tuesday , a petition was filed to the special court against calling former army chief General (r) a traitor. The petition was filed by Akhtar Shah Advocate while the federal government and Pervez Musharraf had been made respondents.

The petitioner prayed the court that word abrogator of constitution and not traitor be used against former president Pervez Musharraf.

The petition says the word traitor has earned defamation to army. In order to save army from further infamy, it is imperative that Pervez Musharraf be not declared traitor.

He requested the court to issue orders for stopping the use of word traitor against Musharraf in media and other places.

On Monday, the PML-Q chief said that using word ‘high treason’ in the Musharraf case was not suitable.

Talking to media outside Parliament House, he said that violator of Constitution could be used instead of traitor as an army chief could never be a traitor. He said the word ‘traitor’ is used for those who join the enemies of the country.

Chudhry Shujaat Hussain suggested that the word ‘traitor’ should be deleted from the Constitution.

Meanwhile, Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain said if the government seriously wanted to initiate the trial against Pervez Musharraf then it should try him as well as his aides for the 12th October 1999 coup, and not just the 3rd November 2007 emergency. He also offered himself for trial alongside the former military ruler.

Chaudhry Shujjat Hussain said he had already presented his name and former chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, former army chief Ashfaq Pervez Kayani and Pervez Ilahi could also be summoned in Musharraf case.

The 70-year-old former president Pervez Musharraf is currently under treatment at Armed Forces Institute of Cardiology(AFIC), Rawalpindi. He was rushed to the military hospital last Thursday after falling ill while being taken to hear treason charges against him at the tribunal in Islamabad.

Initially, the special court exempted him from appearance for one day and then until Monday.

In Monday s hearing, the court directed to submit medical report of the former military ruler.

The enveloped medical record of former president Parvez Musharraf was presented to the special court on Tuesday. The medical report was prepared by senior doctors of the Armed Forces Institute of Cardiology (AFIC).

The court adjourned the hearing until Wednesday to allow time to assess the doctors report.

Justice Faisal Arab, who heads the three-member bench, said in his remarks Tuesday: "We will give an opportunity to both sides to examine (the report) and then we will decide accordingly."

Ahmad Raza Kasuri, a lawyer for Musharraf, told reporters that owing to the complexity of the medical issues the matter could only be debated once both sides had been given time to assess the report.

According to sources, the medical report revealed that three valves of Musharraf’s heart are blocked while he is suffering from kidney disease as well.

The court will announce its decision on medical report of General (r) Pervez Musharraf on January 9.

Musharraf s camp says the treason allegations, which relate to his imposition of emergency rule in November 2007, are politically motivated and his lawyers have challenged the authority of the tribunal.

Aside from the treason allegations, Musharraf also faces trial over the assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto, the death of Akbar Bugti, a deadly raid on a radical mosque and the detention of judges.

08 January 2014
 
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Out of topic reported !
@mods don't start screaming on me, if take the kid to the cleaners ?
Dam kid , your time is up !:triniti:


It can be adjusted any where you want , Pakistani politics been around it ?
NRO done before that, genrl kiyani & pasha both sold the dead man , while musharaf used him to get cash from west ?
lets not expand too much other we will drown in the off topic spam and trolling
I cant spare time to create a thread but I will like to put all Documentaries and interviews from the west, then this book, the "leaked" Abbotabad commission report and the interview from former ISI chief Gen Chishti together to see commonality and weed out the absurdities purely from an academic point of view whatever the outcome.
 
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