Traitors...

[Bratva]

You can laugh for eternity, that won't fill you with any knowledge. You know only one thing about Karachi- MQM and hence all your arguments and criticisms and denials begin and end from there. Need I say something else?

I support the 9-0 raid if you remember. But Rangers cant exactly raid the Mirza farmhouse, Badin which is the bone of contention. Apparently, the immigrants need fear the state's force, the people living for hundreds of years, can threaten police station and an entire city's peace, carry arms freely and get the locals to take up arms against anyone coming to arrest them. I know the state of this country and the mindset of its people.

Which denials and ignorance ? that MQM is part of problem instead of a part of solution ? That MQM apologists consider it's terrorist wing as a necessary evil ?

I once asked you in another thread, Does rangers have credible intelligence to raid XYZ farmhouse or does Rangers have mandate to carryout raid outside of karachi ?

 

[Mav3rick]

So let me get this straight on One hand we have a man who openly live on TV abuses Pakistani institutions, our mothers and sisters, than ask a foreign intelligence agency of an enemy state to help them and on the other hand we have a man who launched a political movement because he thought that elections were rigged (which by the way are happening to be true a case in point NA-125), they both are in the same league?

I truly rest my case.

NO, You got it all wrong.

On the one hand we have a patriot who lives in exile because the powers, that be in the 90's, put up a wanted 'dead or alive' head money on him.....acting either on personal vendetta against MQM or a deeper political agenda. This is the man who has sworn to defend Pakistan and assist the military with all the might of MQM. This is the man who speaks the truth and from the heart, although some frustrations do not suit his stature.

On the other hand we have a man, a son of this soil, who was born with a silver spoon and who was revered and idolized all over the country and who was pampered from the date of his birth who has broken every promise, has attempted to score any and every point using abusive and illegal tactics from attacking the police to have his supporters released to threats of breaking legs of every LEA officer to actually supporting attacks on National Institutions like PTV and Pakistan Radio and attempts to attack the prime minister and president house along with National Assembly to ensuring that the highest profile visits of foreign dignitaries did not materialize to seeking the help of Altaf Hussain, a man who he has taken up arms against many a time in the past, to doing back flips in each and every demand to being a womaniser who was romancing a women at his rally which was meant to uproot a democratically elected Government to criticizing the Army and other institutions, albeit without the courage to do so openly, to ..............

Damn, the list above just goes on and on!

Emmm, Isn't ISHRAT UL EBAD a governor of sindh despite multiple cases on him including murder cases

1. Mr. Ebad is not a member of MQM.
2. Alleged crimes are not punishable, crimes are punishable, understand the difference? Furthermore, the Governors enjoy immunity from prosecution under constitution of Pakistan.
3. Governors are merely powerless symbols of the centre in provinces. They wield no authority unless Governor rule is imposed.

 

[Secur]

Which denials and ignorance ? that MQM is part of problem instead of a part of solution ?

I once asked you in another thread, Does rangers have credible intelligence to raid XYZ farmhouse or does Rangers have mandate to carryout raid outside of karachi ?

Again, the argument begins and ends with MQM. What do you want me to say?

Inability to raid other political HQ's isn't equatable to not having intelligence. I can name places personally where the other openly roam around with weapons, I doubt the law enforcers don't. Isn't Badin part of Sindh province? And ZM has been in Karachi for a long time with a long list of crimes, no one raided his house here despite the fact that he's part of a political party anymore nor in Govt.

 

[Husnainshah]

WOW! The hypocrisy in this thread from both sides. You must drop this 'Holier than thou' attitude.
Hasn't The Army and Altaf subverted the constitution and Law of the Land time and again?
Isn't the Army and Altaf complicit in killing of Politicians, Journalists and activists among others?
Hasn't The Army and Altaf acted under Foreign Governments' influence?
Who're we fooling here?

However, all these adventures come to an end, eventually. Difference here is The Army's realized it and The MQM won't. I sincerely believe, The Army under General Rahil is ready to let go MQM including Altaf, the only condition is to abandon their criminal past. The Army realizes that MQM is a reality but The state just can't afford anymore lawlessness. You don't think the Chinese and other foreigners and locals alike are investing just out of the blue, do you? There's some hard assurances behind the scenes. There's a reason The Army's going after almost everyone. The greater targets at the moment though are MQM and Taliban but things have changed and are changing drastically.

Do you know what are the orders for extortionists currently in Interior Sindh? Shoot at sight. No drama. Period.
Close to a 100 criminals of all ethnicities(majority Sindhi) and political affiliations have either been shot dead or crippled in Hyderabad alone at the hands of SSP Irfan Baloch.

So to summarize it, It's either MQM without the militancy or there's no MQM. Period.

 

[Bratva]

Again, the argument begins and ends with MQM. What do you want me to say?

Inability to raid other political HQ's isn't equatable to not having intelligence. I can name places personally where the other openly roam around with weapons, I doubt the law enforcers don't. Isn't Badin part of Sindh province?

What's with the shifting argument here ? If you personally know those weapons doesn't have licenses and or off prohibited bore, why don't you report it to Rangers anonymously instead of scoring brownie points over here ?

And this is stupid argument to begin with that rangers should do raids in badin. Come back once you read the lawful mandate under which rangers operate. then we can discuss why and why not rangers can raid this or that parts of sindh.

 

[Armstrong]

Again, the argument begins and ends with MQM. What do you want me to say?

Inability to raid other political HQ's isn't equatable to not having intelligence. I can name places personally where the other openly roam around with weapons, I doubt the law enforcers don't. Isn't Badin part of Sindh province?

Busss kar deiii bhai....bussss kar deiii !

You are a Traitor and would soon be sent to Antarctica to atone for your treachery.....Gulags hamareiii passss nahin hain waisee bhiii !

Purrr yaaar itnaa ghusssaa ?

I didn't really verify the figures because I dunno how to but I was listening to a talk show the other day whereby it was stated that during the operation the most people killed belonged to PPP's Aman Committee, then it was of those of the Sunni Itehad and then it was MQM - If thats true...tou phir itnaa one-sided tou nahin haiii ?

 

[Secur]

There's a reason The Army's going after almost everyone.

Nope, selective targeting is still the norm and the thread is exactly about that.

So to summarize it, It's either MQM without the militancy or there's no MQM. Period.

Replace the word MQM with political parties in Karachi and I agree.

What's with the shifting argument here ? If you personally know those weapons doesn't have licenses and or off prohibited bore, why don't you report it to Rangers anonymously instead of scoring brownie points over here ?

And this is stupid argument to begin with that rangers should do raids in badin. Come back once you read the lawful mandate under which rangers operate. then we can discuss why and why not rangers can raid this or that parts of sindh.

Why aren't the law enforcers themselves taking notice? Who exactly do you think am I? You claim non-availability of evidence, I claim non ability of courage and orders from above.

Why not? Forget Badin, will the Rangers arrest him the next time he's in this city?

 

[Mav3rick]

IK never made a speech saying that. It was a leaked recording when he was talking in private.

And so it absolves him of all his sins, where as someone who has the moral courage to do so openly must be prosecuted? And how do we even begin to measure the level of frustration that AH faces, over multiple state actions against MQM and allegations of involvement with RAW and of being Indian sponsored etc. I mean, how long is one supposed to take all this lying down? Are all MQM supporters also traitors? Do you even realize how angry we get when associated with India or RAW? Has IK ever faced such persecution or accusations? How can we even compare these 2?

And while we're looking at things, look how an MQM candidate was allowed to participate in and win an election despite everything.

Shouldn't we rather look at all the hurdles that were created in the path of MQM's candidate? And why should we even consider your point when MQM is neither banned nor restricted from taking part in the election process? And allowed to win.........SERIOUSLY????

Altaf can not be PM of Pakistan because of his own flaws and mistakes. It's not because of his ethnicity.

Actually, Altaf Hussain has neither held any office nor he ever intended to do so. He never wanted to become the PM, he does not do anything for his own self. He can live in a palace but he chooses to live in a 2 bedroom house which also acts as MQM office, and the list goes on.

Pervez Musharraf became President of Pakistan and he's the same ethnicity as Altaf Hussain. The difference being that the former was competent enough to achieve his position while the latter is sitting in London, achieving nothing except weight.

Musharraf was of a different ethnicity altogether, he was establishment, a different breed in itself.

Video footage of known murderers having a chat with MQM leaders inside MQM's headquarters is solid evidence. Statements from known MQM affiliates who also happen to be criminals are not 'random' in any way, and neither are the statements from the Rangers and other Law Enforcement agencies. Even if you don't consider them reliable, their statements are not 'random statements' and it's not just 'a random person'. It's very many relevant persons.

Fehmida Mirza's wife demands retraction of 'false' FIRs against her husband. However, nobody cares about the thousands of fake FIRs that Zulfiqar Mirza and his gang created against MQM members and supporters. Now we face people like you who are well aware of the standards of our LEAs yet when it comes to MQM every allegation becomes a FACT. And when there is an FIR against Imran Khan, from an ATC court, he is neither arrested nor does he face a trial. What a bloody joke.

Do you even understand what 'solid' evidence really is? And on top of that, all the alleged 'target killers' arrested from NINE-ZERO, were sentenced in absentia............what is a person really to do when the judge, jury and executioner are all political and all against you?

As for the random statements or confessions under interrogation.......dude, I can make you confess the attacks on 9/11, in explicit details, within 30 minutes of 'interrogation'. NOBODY can stand torture indefinitely and the common man breaks faster then a criminal anyway. That is the reason why these statements do not hold in courts!

He implied that the state sought to harm them, so by definition he asked his workers to take up arms against the state; the fact that he used a premise or 'gol-mol' to do so doesn't change what he meant and the message everyone got.

He explicitly threatened people who have 'sticks, badges and stars' - him being under the influence of alcohol doesn't mean he wasn't threatening the army. It means he was drunk when he was threatening the army.

FACT - AH does not drink.

And as I said earlier, his words may leave a lot to be desired and despite the level of frustration he faces, at the persecution, discrimination and abuse his followers face, he needs to choose his words more carefully. But 1 thing I can guarantee, if AH ever decides to actually go all out against the LEA's, Liyari would probably become a rosy garden. So until that actually happens, accept his words as the words of a desperate man who can neither protect his followers, nor fight his opposers.

 

[Secur]

I didn't really verify the figures because I dunno how to but I was listening to a talk show the other day whereby it was stated that during the operation the most people killed belonged to PPP's Aman Committee, then it was of those of the Sunni Itehad and then it was MQM - If thats true...tou phir itnaa one-sided tou nahin haiii ?

There's a gang war going on in Liyari, its decades old and even today the law enforcer cant enter without APC's in Cheel Chowk and Buzinjo. Its the heart of the area. They directly threaten every one who comes to tame them. And no, the Aman committee despite being formed by PPP isn't owned by them anymore and other elements are being acted against, just not other political parties. Their headquarters and first/second leadership is safe. I have no problem with the operation, just do it indiscriminately.

 

[Husnainshah]

Nope, selective targeting is still the norm and the thread is exactly about that.
Replace the word MQM with political parties in Karachi and I agree.

Fair enough. I understand the impatience on the MQM sympathizing Urdu Speaking community's part. However, I personally have little to no doubt on Army under Raheel. Like I said, I'm witness to the authorities zero tolerance policy towards unlawful activities.

MQM has the biggest share in Karachi's crimes. Once the authorities are done with MQM's militancy, ANP, Aman Committee and other religious gangs would be a walk in the park.

 

[rockstar08]

Then you know nothing Jon snow. If MQM never gets LEA under their ministry, what about Police stations ? You think we are some dumb people who knows ghanta about karachi ?

sir prove me ? go ahead check , under which Ministry the :LEA's are , Rangers were never under MQM Ministers , along with other FIA or CID ...
and what ever you like to say , but truth is i live her all my life .. and from your blind hate, i see you never even visit Karachi , Oh yeah now you will be " Urdu speaker " who hate urdu speaker lolz

 

[TankMan]

really sir! what actions ( military /civilian) was taken against them. Infact they were treated by kid gloves.

Stay out of Pakistan's internal matters if you don't know about them, and stay out of my discussions if you can't be bothered to read my posts properly. The post you quoted was about public opinion and media. Not military/civilian.

I said they were labelled traitors and criticized. 'Kid gloves' my backside, the 'military/civilian' response was standard.

I said even random statements suffice and that is true in case of MQM and I have seen that here. People were highly enthusiastic about a SSP-level police officer asking to ban a whole political party because he has caught some workers who "claimed" to receive training from India.

So essentially you are upset because people on an internet forum don't follow legal procedure when criticizing political parties. Some people are 'highly enthusiastic' about everything, you can't judge the whole public opinion from that.

He wasn't talking about the state, he might have abused the army for their behavior. But his anger was largerly pointed at last day statements- both of Rao Anwar and Sindhi nationalists. Context is important.

Then I can say the same about Rao Anwar or the aforementioned 'enthusiastic people' - they weren't talking about MQM, their anger was largely pointed at last few years' events and the actions of criminals in Karachi. You'll say that Rao specifically targeted MQM in his statements, well Altaf Hussain also specifically targeted people with sticks and stars.

My point being that him being angry about other things does not change the fact that he very explicitly and specifically insulted, threatened and incited his supporters against the Army and the state.

 

[TankMan]

And so it absolves him of all his sins,

No, it doesn't. The point was that he didn't incite thousands of people against the state. Altaf did incite his people, multiple times. End of story.

Shouldn't we rather look at all the hurdles that were created in the path of MQM's candidate?

Hurdles? You mean like the ban on double sawari? As if double sawari is patented by MQM and no other parties' voters use double sawari as a mode of transport. Polling booths being restricted to one entrance? Every party's voter had to stand in the same line and go through the same entrance. Checking people's ID cards? Everyone had to show their ID cards, and last time I checked political affiliation is not mentioned on ID cards. Am I missing any other hurdles?

And allowed to win.........SERIOUSLY????

Yes, seriously. According to MQM supporters, the entire Pakistan is against them, especially the Rangers. There were rangers in every polling booth in the election. If they were as evil as they're supposed to be, they would have rigged the election against MQM. They didn't.

FACT - AH does not drink.

My post was in response to @Secur , who said:

But he wasn't threatening the army, just trying to express his alcohol fueled anger.

I'm not saying he drinks or doesn't drink, I don't know and don't care.

Fehmida Mirza's wife demands retraction of 'false' FIRs against her husband. However, nobody cares about the thousands of fake FIRs that Zulfiqar Mirza and his gang created against MQM members and supporters. Now we face people like you who are well aware of the standards of our LEAs yet when it comes to MQM every allegation becomes a FACT. And when there is an FIR against Imran Khan, from an ATC court, he is neither arrested nor does he face a trial. What a bloody joke.

And how is that relevant to the fact that people known to be target killers were inside MQM's headquarters and there is footage of that?

Every allegation becomes a fact? No, it doesn't. I, for one, don't believe the RAW theory. But when there are so many of these ''allegations'', how long do you expect people to believe your justifications and stories and conspiracy theories?

Do you even understand what 'solid' evidence really is?

CCTV footage and the physical presence of illegal weapons constitute solid evidence everywhere in the world.

As for the random statements or confessions under interrogation.......dude, I can make you confess the attacks on 9/11, in explicit details, within 30 minutes of 'interrogation'. NOBODY can stand torture indefinitely and the common man breaks faster then a criminal anyway. !

Do you have solid evidence that every single target killer's confession was under torture?

Actually, Altaf Hussain has neither held any office nor he ever intended to do so

I was replying to another poster who said Altaf Hussain isn't being allowed to hold office because of his ethnicity.
As long as he's not being deprived of power because of his ethnicity, my point stands.

Musharraf was of a different ethnicity altogether, he was establishment, a different breed in itself.

So you're saying the 'evil, racist and fascist establishment' accepted Musharraf as 'one of their own' despite the fact that he migrated from India and is an mohajir in every sense of the term - but that means they didn't discriminate against him and therefore are not evil racists.

That also means mohajirs can achieve a lot and gain power in Pakistan, and at the end of the day all this self-victimization coming from MQM is political exploitation of the emotions of people who are deprived for reasons other than their ethnicity.

BTW, what you think of this traitor who's having trains being named after him?

I'd celebrate if he got run over by one.

 

[punit]

Stay out of Pakistan's internal matters if you don't know about them, and stay out of my discussions if you can't be bothered to read my posts properly. The post you quoted was about public opinion and media. Not military/civilian.

I said they were labelled traitors and criticized. 'Kid gloves' my backside, the 'military/civilian' response was standard.

dont get so butthurt! its an open discussion forum!

 

[Zarvan]

sir prove me ? go ahead check , under which Ministry the :LEA's are , Rangers were never under MQM Ministers , along with other FIA or CID ...
and what ever you like to say , but truth is i live her all my life .. and from your blind hate, i see you never even visit Karachi , Oh yeah now you will be " Urdu speaker " who hate urdu speaker lolz

Due to different political reason never operation was completed it was left in middle although crimes of terrorist MQM are well known there brutality and bhatta collection and target killing is known to every one but this time its over and now there leaders along with target killers will be thrown in Jail for ever

Nope, selective targeting is still the norm and the thread is exactly about that.



Replace the word MQM with political parties in Karachi and I agree.



Why aren't the law enforcers themselves taking notice? Who exactly do you think am I? You claim non-availability of evidence, I claim non ability of courage and orders from above.

Why not? Forget Badin, will the Rangers arrest him the next time he's in this city?

Yes I agree they should arrest him and also ask what crimes Zaradri and his corrupt more PPP and terrorist leadership has done and they should arrest them to and throw them in Jail for ever and it would happen you will see it soon. NAB and FBR and FIA and other organisations has also started to collect data on PPP leadership and they will also soon end up in Jail.