Traitors...

[Zarvan]

I never claimed to know every detail and I never claimed that Saulat's confession was reliable. All I said was that it holds weight when, and only when, combined with other evidence, which there is and there is a lot. Since Saulat was in the hands of Pakistani authorities, his confession is valid (not necessarily true, just valid, i.e noteworthy); there is no comparison with Kasab's situation.

You're saying its worth nothing to you, I never cared what it was worth to you. The point is that it is noteworthy enough to be discussed and investigated - if its worth nothing to you, don't bother discussing it. But you can not expect others to stay quiet about it just because you don't like it.


My comments are perfectly mature and very well thought out. Don't pull stuff like this, it reduces the value of this already worthless discussion.

Its not only Saulat several hundred MQM target killers have been caught and they have taken names of entire leadership on their orders they used to kill people.

 

[rockstar08]

I never claimed to know every detail and I never claimed that Saulat's confession was reliable. All I said was that it holds weight when, and only when, combined with other evidence, which there is and there is a lot. Since Saulat was in the hands of Pakistani authorities, his confession is valid (not necessarily true, just valid, i.e noteworthy); there is no comparison with Kasab's situation.

You're saying its worth nothing to you, I never cared what it was worth to you. The point is that it is noteworthy enough to be discussed and investigated - if its worth nothing to you, don't bother discussing it. But you can not expect others to stay quiet about it just because you don't like it.


My comments are perfectly mature and very well thought out. Don't pull stuff like this, it reduces the value of this already worthless discussion.

if the Saulat Mirza confession is not reliable than what is all that hype on PDF and Pakistani media ?
and what other evidence is there to prove that MQM is a terrorist Organization and supported by RAW ? please increase my knowledge here
and i guess Pakistani Authorities are famous for Twisting the facts , and torture ..
just like the indians may have used it on kasab to make him confess that he from Pakistan and blah blah ...

and obviously you wont be expecting me to accept the only biased version of the media and public opinion about a certain party and neglecting the other son of soils , no matter how much crimes they commit ..

that is not a worthless discussion , but maybe you have no interest in it ..
every single urdu speaking person living in Pakistan have all the right to ask this question to our Establishment that why its always about me been " Traitor "

 

[Secur]

The language used by AH was no different from Indian's using here,so justifying the filthy language used by their leader for which even their drunkard leader himself apologized is so ridiculous...

Exactly, how does it appear to you that I am somehow "justifying this filthy language" when all I ask is similar treatment for the rest of the traitors too?

Instead of condemning behavior of maintaining terror squads and indulging in militant activities and on top of that forgets what MQM been doing and plays victimization card , how does they expect rest of Pakistan to sympathize with them ? It's human nature and psyche 101.

You know very well as to what I am saying, that you choose to act ignorant is your own problem. The behavior of MQM has been condemned, ask those assemblies and all the people active on social media to start condemning these people too. Selective justice isn't justice.

Nobody expects you to sympathize, the discrimination and hatred is blind and remains visible.

 

[TankMan]

@Secur @Oscar @Patriots isnt it Pathetic that people want us to drop our Identity as Urdu speaking people ?

No, people don't want anyone to drop their identity as Urdu speaking people. What people here are saying is stop with the self-victimization through the mohajir tag.

People who proudly call themselves Punjabi, Pakhtun, Sindhi and so on don't then say that the entire Pakistan is out to get them, even though for example the Pakhtuns have had so many problems and operations in their areas and have had to leave their homes multiple times. The people of Sindh, as another example, have been facing famines, starvation and poverty - but they don't victimize themselves on the grounds of ethnicity. That's the only thing people like me, @Bratva, @Jango and @FaujHistorian bhai are saying.

 

[Secur]

Iwill share this link again.it will speak for itself,
A speech from 2009. Why no resolution was passed in NA parliament regarding such heinous statements totally disregarding the very roots of our existence.

And this whole thing, 'how mohajirs will drop mohajir tag cuz so and so'etc ec, for God's sake stop it.

Try him under article 6 and hang him at Central Jail, Karachi for the remarks. No problem, but make sure that he isn't the only one who's hanged while the rest continue with same laughing their heads off.

 

[airmarshal]

What about the letter your MQM chief wrote to Blair offering his help in dismantling ISI? That was back in 2001. Was that also a joke?

Who does not treat 'muhajir' as Pakistani. Ask your belovd MQM this question. I repatedly say its a party that has been in govt for almost two decades. It was in assemblies of Pakistan. What did your party deliver for you?

Civil disobedience and calling RAW to help and party cadre to get commando training are two different things. Your leade by the way is a British citizen. Talk about your hypocrisy! He does not want to live with you, yet you find excuses to defend him.

As soon as MQM gets into a coalition govt, all this rubbish talk about rights and mohajirs will cease to exist. Its the pain that MQM only feels when not in govt. You and your party must account for why 8000 people were killed in Karachi when your party was in coalition govt between 2008 to 2013.

 

[rockstar08]

No, people don't want anyone to drop their identity as Urdu speaking people. What people here are saying is stop with the self-victimization through the mohajir tag.

People who proudly call themselves Punjabi, Pakhtun, Sindhi and so on don't then say that the entire Pakistan is out to get them, even though for example the Pakhtuns have had so many problems and operations in their areas and have had to leave their homes multiple times. The people of Sindh, as another example, have been facing famines, starvation and poverty - but they don't victimize themselves on the grounds of ethnicity. That's the only thing people like me, @Bratva, @Jango and @FaujHistorian bhai are saying.

Oh please , you are well learned man , who were crying for Bhutto, and who shout jaag punjab jaag ? every political party use its ethnicity tag , nothing new here ..
Urdu speaking people are only asking for justice , and you are failed to provide it ..
and above all , calling them traitors , by putting a SSP in front of Media ..
i didnt see any SSP in press conference declaring Akber bhugti a traitor who rise arms against the state

 

[TankMan]

the Saulat Mirza confession is not reliable than what is all that hype on PDF and Pakistani media ?

I've already explained this:

his confession is valid (not necessarily true, just valid, i.e noteworthy);

it holds weight when, and only when, combined with other evidence, which there is and there is a lot.

and what other evidence is there to prove that MQM is a terrorist Organization and supported by RAW ? please increase my knowledge here

The statements of dozens of other target killers, including some caught conversing with MQM leaders inside MQM's headquarters. Illegal weapons inside MQM's headquarters. There's a lot more.

he only biased version of the media and public opinion about a certain party and neglecting the other son of soils , no matter how much crimes they commit ..

Nobody ever neglected other ''sons of the soil''.

Let's see:

A 'son of the soil', Nawaz Sharif, was overthrown by Urdu-speaking mohajir (born in India) General Musharaf, who then proceeded to rule for about a decade.

Shahbaz Sharif and the Punjab police are ''sons of the soil''. When they caused the deaths of people in model town, hundreds of thousands of people protested and hundreds of millions condemned. Media coverage was massive.

Gullu Butt was a 'son of the soil' breaking public property. He faced jail time and media attention.

Zardari is a 'son of the soil', public opinion definitely didn't neglect anything. I personally saw thousands of people in a protest calling him a murderous thief and the incarnation of various unhygienic animals. He's faced jail time before.

Imran Khan is a 'son of the soil'. He was branded a traitor, 'Taliban khan' and so on for his statements. For every single one of his mistakes, he received media attention and condemnation.

Now obviously there isn't perfect justice (or justice at all) in Pakistan. But to say that the public and the media neglects the crimes of ''sons of the soil'' is purely false, more of that self-victimization.

 

[IceCold]

I am amazed that people are actually comparing someone like Imran Khan with a terrorist scum bag like Altaf. Pray tell me where did Imran ever said anything about breaking this country apart or that Pakistan's creation was a mistake? Forget the military.
As for billions in loss, an itemize breakup of those billions would be nice for the readers?.

 

[TankMan]

Oh please , you are well learned man , who were crying for Bhutto, and who shout jaag punjab jaag ? every political party use its ethnicity tag , nothing new here ..

Saying ''Punjab'' and saying ''the whole Pakistan hates us because we're urdu speaking'' are two completely different things.

Political parties use their ethnicity, but rarely do they victimize themselves on the basis of that ethnicity. The problem with MQM is that any criticism to it is portrayed as an attack on all urdu-speaking people.

And it's definitely nothing new. MQM has been doing it for a very long time.

 

[FaujHistorian]

No, people don't want anyone to drop their identity as Urdu speaking people. What people here are saying is stop with the self-victimization through the mohajir tag.

People who proudly call themselves Punjabi, Pakhtun, Sindhi and so on don't then say that the entire Pakistan is out to get them, even though for example the Pakhtuns have had so many problems and operations in their areas and have had to leave their homes multiple times. The people of Sindh, as another example, have been facing famines, starvation and poverty - but they don't victimize themselves on the grounds of ethnicity. That's the only thing people like me, @Bratva, @Jango and @FaujHistorian bhai are saying.

Well said bahi jaan

very well stated

I am amazed that people are actually comparing someone like Imran Khan with a terrorist scum bag like Altaf. Pray tell me where did Imran ever said anything about breaking this country apart or that Pakistan's creation was a mistake? Forget the military.
As for billions in loss, an itemize breakup of those billions would be nice for the readers?.

sometimes actions do count more than words.

IK has been $tupidests of all when it comes spreading instability and anarchy.
There is a reason he is known as Taliban Khan

 

[Shamain]

Try him under article 6 and hang him at Central Jail, Karachi for the remarks. No problem, but make sure that he isn't the only one who's hanged while the rest continue with same laughing their heads off.

Lolz. That was cute.

 

[Secur]

You sir need to revisit those days and get acquainted with what happened.

1- "Peaceful right to protest" Means that you take an unusually large number of people and then make your demands heard.

2- PTI didn't block the city, the government did. I didn't see any PTI workers manning the toll plazas and standing at every entry point checking cars. All of the PTI activity was centered first in the Aabpara region and then the D-Chowk...

I don't know if you've ever been to Islamabad, but D-Chowk isn't open to public on normal days...so Imran Khan's protest actually opened the doors for that place and now people can go and visit and believe again that it's actually a part of our country.

And no, the capital did not come to a halt. I was living in Islamabad in those days...I don't think you were.

Phone calls such as these aren't exactly called conclusive evidence. You give me your voice sample or a picture of you and I can effectively imply you in a robbery. Ain't that hard these days.

As someone said previously, Arif Alvi "informed" IK that something had happened at PTV and then IK purportedly said "Good, maintain the pressure".

So how could it be that Imran Khan planned the attack but then had to be informed in such a manner that an attack had took place?

He didn't call out his supporters to take up training and arm themselves up.

He didn't say "na tumhari chari rahay gi aur na hi sitaray".

You can make that "lost in translation" excuse on that rivers comment, but I don't see how Sindhi nationalists wear stars on their shoulders and hold sticks in their hands.

Has any other leader ever threatened the army in such a manner?

Unless you can provide a sincere answer to the above question, consider this argument finished.

Good day.

Exactly my point.
Mr @Secur conveniently avoided my question that "What constitutes a Muhajir for you".

What were those demands again? The elected assembly and Prime minister must go because a certain political leader doesn't think him worthy of the seat. Or the fact that he used his political power to bring thousand of protesters on the street to try and stir up trouble against the Govt? Or that his protest caused losses of millions of dollar to the national economy? Or how his protest caused damage to the reputation of the country? Or how we called for civil disobedience because he didn't like the Govt? Both PTI and PAT caused road blockage when they passed in extremely slow manners to the national capital. What exactly are you trying to defend here?

Yes, conclusive evidence in the case of MQM is a random statement from a random person, that suffices as the Gospel's truth in that case. Here, even a direct telephone call and clear words aren't sufficient. And then you talk of equality. Interesting. Did it all happen suddenly and by itself? Was it all a coincidence? Did PTI workers attack the national television without any directive? Arif Alvi was clear in telling the chief that the "attack has occurred" and Imran Khan responded with "Good, maintain the pressure" instead of "calling them off". While the office was ransacked, the great Khan was busy in crafting a lie how it wasn't his workers who did it. The words are clear, the chief needs to be told if what he planned has been carried out. I don't see the strange part there.

Altaf Hussein didn't ask his workers to take up arms against the state, but rather against those who seek to harm them. A reference to the earlier day confrontation on the issue of making Karachi a province. Derogatory and vulgar words were used against the army and he said what he shouldn't have. But he wasn't threatening the army, just trying to express his alcohol fueled anger. There's no confrontation between the army and MQM. A SSP level police officer didn't say these things on his own accord, someone made him say this. A guess? Establishment. The party has always responded harshly and severely on the issue of being foreign agents, but AH did go too far.

They might not have threatened the army, no one except G.M. Syed and Akbar Bugti-known separatists, but others have directly threatened to "break the state" at different times. That fares well with you that people don't condemn them at all and assemblies are silent?

I am surprised that you don't already know this. If that wasn't a rhetorical question, here's a simple definition, it refers to every single person who has migrated from India/Bangladesh to Pakistan. Would that suffice now?

Lolz. That was cute.

Did it somehow go against what you were hoping for? I don't support people with separatist thought, but I won't support others too for the same thing and I won't support the national passivity for when others do it.

 

[Shamain]

What were those demands again? The elected assembly and Prime minister must go because a certain political leader doesn't think him worthy of the seat. Or the fact that he used his political power to bring thousand of protesters on the street to try and stir up trouble against the Govt? Or that his protest caused losses of millions of dollar to the national economy? Or how his protest caused damage to the reputation of the country? Or how we called for civil disobedience because he didn't like the Govt? Both PTI and PAT caused road blockage when they passed in extremely slow manners to the national capital. What exactly are you trying to defend here?

Yes, conclusive evidence in the case of MQM is a random statement from a random person, that suffices as the Gospel's truth in that case. Here, even a direct telephone call and clear words aren't sufficient. And then you talk of equality. Interesting. Did it all happen suddenly and by itself? Was it all a coincidence? Did PTI workers attack the national television without any directive? Arif Alvi was clear in telling the chief that the "attack has occurred" and Imran Khan responded with "Good, maintain the pressure" instead of "calling them off". While the office was ransacked, the great Khan was busy in crafting a lie how it wasn't his workers who did it. The words are clear, the chief needs to be told if what he planned has been carried out. I don't see the strange part there.

Altaf Hussein didn't ask his workers to take up arms against the state, but rather against those who seek to harm them. A reference to the earlier day confrontation on the issue of making Karachi a province. Derogatory and vulgar words were used against the army and he said what he shouldn't have. But he wasn't threatening the army, just trying to express his alcohol fueled anger. There's no confrontation between the army and MQM. A SSP level police officer didn't say these things on his own accord, someone made him say this. A guess? Establishment. The party has always responded harshly and severely on the issue of being foreign agents, but AH did go too far.

They might not have threatened the army, no one except G.M. Syed and Akbar Bugti-known separatists, but others have directly threatened to "break the state" at different times. That fares well with you that people don't condemn them at all and assemblies are silent?

I am surprised that you don't already know this. If that wasn't a rhetorical question, here's a simple definition, it refers to every single person who has migrated from India/Bangladesh to Pakistan. Would that suffice now?



Did it somehow go against what you were hoping for? I don't support people with separatist thought, but I won't support others too for the same thing.

No not against what i was hoping. Instead exacrtly what i was hoping. Trust me.

 

[rockstar08]

I've already explained this:



The statements of dozens of other target killers, including some caught conversing with MQM leaders inside MQM's headquarters. Illegal weapons inside MQM's headquarters. There's a lot more.

Nobody ever neglected other ''sons of the soil''.

Let's see:

A 'son of the soil', Nawaz Sharif, was overthrown by Urdu-speaking mohajir (born in India) General Musharaf, who then proceeded to rule for about a decade.

Shahbaz Sharif and the Punjab police are ''sons of the soil''. When they caused the deaths of people in model town, hundreds of thousands of people protested and hundreds of millions condemned. Media coverage was massive.

Gullu Butt was a 'son of the soil' breaking public property. He faced jail time and media attention.

Zardari is a 'son of the soil', public opinion definitely didn't neglect anything. I personally saw thousands of people in a protest calling him a murderous thief and the incarnation of various unhygienic animals. He's faced jail time before.

Imran Khan is a 'son of the soil'. He was branded a traitor, 'Taliban khan' and so on for his statements. For every single one of his mistakes, he received media attention and condemnation.

Now obviously there isn't perfect justice (or justice at all) in Pakistan. But to say that the public and the media neglects the crimes of ''sons of the soil'' is purely false, more of that self-victimization.

and yet none of them were Convicted by courts and still enjoying the PM and Presidentship in Pakistan ... how amazing.
this only happen in Karachi and with Urdu speaking people that because of some Criminal elements in MQM they target the entire Community , media only care about their TRP and Business ..

look how your son of soil Shahbaz shareef get away with model town killings ..
look how IK get away from his speeches where he say Army will piss in their pants ..
look how Zardari a Daako become the President on Pakistan ..

now put this situation on Altaf and tell , can he be the PM of Pakistan ?