AM's arguments revolve around unnecessary comparisons of the military to its civilian counterpart for the sake of deflecting from the topic at hand. My post was in regards to his oft comparison whereby he used the corruption amongst the civilian service as a means to justify what has occurred in Pakistan's military outfit. He wasn't comparing the efficiency and the turnover but rather citing the example of mass losses in civilian enterprises which can be attributed to mass corruption,
As i have always said that no one should be above the law and no one is allowed to justify his misdeeds by citing others. i have also said that the military do has it share of buggers and there's no denying the fact. Having said this one should not forget that the ratio of corruption as compared the civilians is much lower.
the military on the other hand is not accountable to anyone and is able to work more efficiently, turning a good number for their own pockets.
Now that's strange.
The military itself and the companies it run are all accountable just any other public/private enterprise is. Just because a few top notches (who doesnt in this world) manages to embezzle a few buck doesnt necessary means that there's no accountability in these establishments. How do you think they pay the taxes and they never go in loss as compared to their counterparts in the civilian world? i think i would to and extent saying that there's more accountability in these organizations as compared to the civilians as the Chairman Pak Steel and Dir PIA are always appointed by their beloved politicians and these guys by happening to be their yes-men, no one asks them questions when they eat up the company, on the other hand the military run businesses are answerable to the complete PA Dte, the COAS and its employees. Well i include the employees here as our employees have yet to go hud haram as their counterparts in Pak Steel, PIA and Pak Rail has gone!
Lt. Gen Fazle Haq, his use of private enterprises and his official position allowed him to conduct large scale illegal operations in Pakistan, most of which are not known to the general public, he was worth a lot of money too.
Gen. Akhtar Abdur Rahman was very efficient in using pvt enterprises in raising a little money for himself, his children are worth a lot of money today, "two billion dollars, my foot" was his reply to an allegation by Ijaz, his fathers colleagues son.
Gen. Gul, he was able to muscle out all other competitors so that his own business could flourish, his connections were very deep and run that deep to this day.
Gen Baig & Gen. Durrani were accused by their own political product Shareef of being involved in a specific illegal trade for raising funds.
Colonel Billa too was a useful man for a number of reasons, he was involved in a number of scandals involving some big names.
Even Gen. Ayub Khan, a man I greatly admired had his share of pie during his rule.
Gen Zia made a lot of money too, so much so that his son can buy votes en-mass, they have a number of homes around the world too.
^^ i wonder how did you manage to miss Musharraf.
Anywaz, the examples you have quoted cites only a few from the top whereas my concerns have been regarding the peons, clerks, door keepers etc in the civilian domain. Also, let's be realistic, is there any Chairman or a Dir that the Pak Steel and PIA have had that have not embezzled millions, to date? Now dont get me wrong, i am in no way justifying the misdoing of the above mentioned Officers, but then one need to understand that the men that run these organizations and those who form part of these are no angles. You know what, you guys try becoming more Muslaman than the Maulvis when it comes to the military and the Army in particular, but what you forget is that men from the same very Nation that has gone corrupt and inept at the same time over a period of 60 years are the ones which constitute these organizations. The question now is, why do the same men eat and shyt at the same time when they become DCOs/EDOs, Politicians and CEOs/Chairmen, but when the same men wear the uniform, the numbers and quantity lessens? Now one can attribute many reasons to this difference, let's say uniforms dont have as much public dealing as the civilians have, or may be the discipline in the forces bar them from doing anything stupid or may be the system (of accountability) that we have in place dont allow them to go out of their pants, but then that's a separate debate for a separate thread, for now we need to understand that angles would not come down from heavens and run these organizations rather it would be you or me who would form part of the same. Have you ever wondered that just 20 years back we did have corrupt individuals but back then no one would be daring enough to spend the ill-earned money in the public sphere as he would fear of getting labeled as corrupt, today being corrupt is a fashion. So let's be realistic and concentrate on the more important issue of the difference of thresholds between a military-man going corrupt and a civilian who (most of them) dandi mars everytime he gets a chance, even if we agree on comparing anything. BTW, let's see if you can come up with names of those in civies and those who headed your public enterprises who do not fit in the above mentioned category. As we say, exceptions are always there, but this exception would fit on a very few officer (a few of them whom you hve already mentioned) but i am sure the opposite exception would gather more civies.
So let's be realistic or else you would end up quoting some more names and would stop doing it and i would keep on quoting my names as my list goes on like for ever.
I have given enough examples to discuss for now, there are many more and when I refer to corruption, I am not being specific about enterprises but rather the massive corruption that occurs wherever it can.
One, you have managed to list down the faujis, let's see if you can do the same in case of the civilians. i am sure you might face difficulties in doing so as the sheer numbers alone might make it difficult to remember/recall all their names.
Two, you need to tone down the 'massive', or else we will continue to argue.
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BTW, though not (totally) unrelated to the topic but then i would like share something here.
The US and GoP agrees that a total of 13.5 Billion USD have been paid to Pakistan (for the tri services) under head of CSF. $ 10.8 B was earmarked for the Army alone. Your papers (though in consultation with the Army) says that $ 6.98 B has been paid to the Army, but infact only $ 1.8 B has been received by the Army in TOTAL. Now where are the remaining $ 5.18 B? The answer may not sound very pleasing to many here. The remaining $ 5.18 B has gone to support the National Budget. Yes, it you guys who have eaten it. i know now that Musers and Sparklers would feel uneasy with this by then that's the fact. You wont find these figures in the media, why? Well dont we know the media sells on conspiracies.
Also, back in 2005 when the earthquake unleashed misery and pain in our North, it was the Army that donated an handsome amount out of its Budget that went on to support the effectees. You wont also find this news in the media, why because when the funds were donated there werent any left for the military to conduct their Collective Training and we never wanted to send a signal to our friendly neighbors that the almost all of the Two New entries of the military is composed of untrained soldiers.
Also, when the COAS says that it would construct so and so numbers of schools, or deliver free books, or install free water points in the remote areas of Balochistan, or establish free medical camps for flood effectees or donate X amount to them or school such numbers of students free of cost or subsidize schooling expenses etc, we have our indian friends telling us; 'Well, a very guud news, but wouldnt it had been better if the same has been done/announced by the PM/President?'
So, if i remember correctly, a military of any country is a non-profit organization.
P.S. wrote an elaborate reply, but it was screwed say thanks to the hickups that the PDF faces lately. Just jotted down a quick response again, so please bear with it.