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Tough love! Modi’s raising Balochistan doesnt mean he has abandoned hopes of a historic peace

let the dog bark...stray dogs can only bark and we know there are quite plenty of them around red fort. they just can't swallow the arrest of kulbhashan, there is noting these dogs are barking from across the border, they will get a befitting response as and when required..trust me.
 
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Frankly I am tired of the disproportionate attention Pakistan receives in India's poltical discourse. It is a neighbour of India's but at the heart of it they are a security problem that can be dealt with with at a ministerial level, there is no need for the PM to be giving them the relevence they crave.

If there were great riches to be made with improved relations with Pakistan then I would wholeheartedly welcome an outreach as large as possible but frankly Pakistan offers almost negligable benefits for India as it stands and they simply aren't open to economic ties with India so why waste the time? Their security establishment is not about to ditch their decades long proxy war with India. Treat Pakistan how it is asking to be treated- as a security problem and leave it at that. The PM (and senior ministers) should be focusing their attention on far more fruitful endeavours such as improved ties with the US, UK, France/EU, China, Japan, Australia, S.Korea, Iran, Middle East, Israel etc etc.


@Joe Shearer @PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @nair @Levina
Brother, I still believe, for what u have said to happen, article 370 must go away. It neither allows a strong political neither a permanent military solution to the whole issue.
There are still some sections in Kashmir, that believe they'll be able to live as a separate nation and imho it's this section that needs to be tackled.
@MilSpec @Levina @hellfire
 
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Frankly if you wish to support Balochistan do it covertly , hardly something you wish to announce from the ramparts of the red fort.
that said this is a major shift in the policy vis a vie Pakistan . Dont know how this will play out in diplomatic circles but this is now a whole new ball game.

Diplomatic shift? If so then very stupid! It will only confirm to even the most pro-peace Pakistanis that India is indeed behind terrorism inside Pakistan. So far, there has been a sizable segment of Pakistani intelligentsia--the so-called 'liberals'--who have been putting the blame on Zia Ul Haq for all of Pakistan's problems. But that may be getting old.

I see NO GAIN for India or for the region by lumping Baluchistan with Kashmir. And deep down, I think, many Indians in this forum must know that. For India, Pakistan should be targeted via Azad Kashmir and that would begin to be legit.
 
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I believe so , but to be fair ," Taali ek haath se nahai bajti" Pakistan its self does not seem to be serious about peace.

But one this is sure, this govt showed extreme position while making peace (calling NS to swearing of Modi and then in--famous tea at Lahore) and now this hardening of stand by DM and PM Modi from red fort
 
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The irony is that Pakistani flags being hoisted all over IOK has become so common that it's not even a news anymore however, Indians were raving when some soldiers managed to hoist a solitary Indian flag in the otherwise the so called Atoot Ang..... still fancy your chances in Baluchistan. !!!
 
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Just my opinion and the view that I see things.

From the Indian point of view, a good approach by Modi Sarkar. As it is said, lets tangle the Pakistan by such statements and make Pakistan to think about other issues being diverted from the main agenda of Kashmir. Indeed, to the some extent it may workout that nobody knows what would be next and in counter of such diplomatic move of India. It is also witnessed that under the context of these statements by the Indian Premier, a well managed campaign is started by Indian media on different subjects that all are directed towards Pakistan based upon anti-Pakistan subjects to diversify more. So while looking at the affect of India's new diplomatic approach, for the one seems like pushing back Pakistan.

While on other hand, from Pakistan prospective, first of all it is proven that India is more desperate due to rise in Kashmir issue nowadays. Modi's statement mentioning about letters from Baluchistan and GB (a claim indeed) proves that India is involved with attempted interference in these areas though there is not much thing like what Modi claimed but good enough to prove the stance. It also give another opportunity to prove that India is involved for the unrest of these areas whereby on certain times and forums, Pakistan's stand against these terrorists has been acknowledged. India made a mere attempt to divert the attention but still, Pakistan stand with same previous point whereby Kashmir is on the top to discuss. Also, the statement of India is to be viewed in context whereby GOI has rejected the UNHCR;s request for access in IoK as well as while denied the invitation of Pakistan for talks on the base of Kashmir subject. Pakistan sees these statements nothing but an attempt to redirect and divert the attention of Int'l Forums as well as UN to other issues which has no substance with the subject of Kashmir at all. Pakistan is still focused on the Kashmir agenda and will be carrying the same practice but with more energy than before.

I mentioned here about "than before thing" because Kashmir subject was on halt or almost frozen in previous democratic tenure whereby, our elite was busy enough to save their hidden accounts and looted money that paid no attention for the support of Kashmir cause. Then after, as the current political elite took charge of the high office, as usual and as per practice in sequence with previous office, was much busy with own political agendas and India friendship goals that put Kashmir subject in storage but fortunately for Kashmiris and unfortunately for Modi, the HR violation started in Kashmir yet protests became regular and clashes with forces that got the attention of int'l community as well as of the people those who supports Kashmiris for their cause and resulted to force NS to change stance. India itself has played a major role to rise the issue of Kashmir once again due to last series of violence since more than a month while more protesters died. It was Bhutto's mistake that came with idea of bilateral talks to resolve the matter but still, any of the party can reach the UN that is not prohibited with agreement at all, in-case the other is not serious to resolve the issue or derails the talks. I mentioned the Bhutto chapter in short that the UN resolution and all those agreements are discussed in length and depth.

Not going by deep into past but last elections in GB proves more than enough for anyone who is not updated well. There was no single complain about the GB Elections by any int'l observer and even if for the sake of arguments, GB is occupied, the whole world is silent and India should cut-off from everyone for such stand but knew that the reality is, GB is in peace and happily progressing. Assembly is working fine and GB is well protected while being self governed and not integrated with Pakistan. Also, GB is going to have a good share in CPEC which will indeed help prosper and the growth of the same and people indeed. Like Baluchistan and others, GB is most pro-Pakistan region that even requested to be integrated with Pakistan, which is a proof enough for the one to understand that how GB stands with Pakistan.

Baluchistan Provincial government if working fine and people like harbiyar marri and Brahamdagh Bugti are on run and sought asylum because not only the law is looking for them but most of all those tribes and tribesmen hates them from the core of heart and both them knows well. These both names have been ruling the Baluchistan in past yet never done anything for the people except more slaves and extortion. Government of Pakistan continued with CPEC that will be beneficial for Baluchistan Province first and all others as well. As the extortion stopped and being low on money, people like Harbiyar ran and started a campaign not because for the people but for the money. If the Baluchistan issue, as Modi portrayed, was that true a long ago, Int'l community alongwith anti-CPEC faces would have forced Pakistan to do what these terrorists are parroting.

The CPEC is the key for everything here in Modi's speech that this route starts with GB and ends at Baluchistan for which, Pakistan is very well aware even the people are as well. Opposing the CPEC wouldn't alone be countered by Pakistan as a strong opposition for such stance but indeed it involves China as well so India has to face two strong oppositions at once which I think, is no more in favour of economical India. India is trying an attempt to portray the CPEC as controversial but seems no weight and substance except to derail the Kashmir cause and diversify the agenda while involving the China which is going to be very helpful. So by highlighting such irrelevant issues, India helped more to bring Kashmir to International Table.

@WAJsal @Neutron @Mugwop @notorious_eagle @Arsalan @Moonlight @Zibago and others.
 
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But one this is sure, this govt showed extreme position while making peace (calling NS to swearing of Modi and then in--famous tea at Lahore) and now this hardening of stand by DM and PM Modi from red fort

Yes, extremes. And any sane person should wonder why such extremes? I will tell you why: India's Modi is like America's Trump as far as worrying about consequences for his actions--or Pakistan's Imran Khan, for that matter. These kinds of people perceive that their actions have no consequences. In case of Modi, the Western backing, the red carpet receptions in Washington, the knock out of Indian Congress party, the economic growth in India, and perhaps a desperation arising from a considerably improved situation inside Pakistan have made Modi switch gears--or rather just rant.
 
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Brother, I still believe, for what u have said to happen, article 370 must go away. It neither allows a strong political neither a permanent military solution to the whole issue.
There are still some sections in Kashmir, that believe they'll be able to live as a separate nation and imho it's this section that needs to be tackled.
@MilSpec @Levina @hellfire
The level of moral decay in J&K politics is beyond our comprehension, I highly doubt 370 will go away in our lifetime.
 
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|The path Modi has taken you Indians can bask in this nationalistic foolhardiness but you dont understand that India will have to manufacture 'separatists' movements in Pakistan while Pakistan just need to mention separatists movements going on in India.

Pakistan has no hand in any separatists movement in India. Its India that must first look at its own house thats on fire.

Deny Kashmir as much as you want. Kashmir is an internationally recognized dispute. What your Modi is doing will reverse your economic gains. War with Pakistan is not an option. Try take that path. We have nothing to lose.
 
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He has shown what is the difference between this govt and the previous govt. We have now stopped avoiding bouncers and instead hitting them for six

I will not be surprised if he raises Balochistan at the UN. that will be a real slap on the face of the pakistanis

the argument doesn't work.
india and the whole world accepted Baluchistan as part of Pakistan.
by any definition this means india is interfering in Pakistan internal issues
but Kashmir is divided between india-pakistan by line of control and its status as such is accepted by both india-pakistan even today.
it would be like Pakistan start to cry about 20-25 different movements in india from sikh movement to Assam, bengal and nixel

on international front, the mighty are always right, so india is going to have the majority support even if it says the world is flat not round...behind the doors people are going to laugh with this approach

it is far easier for us to mingle in 20-25 movement than you are doing in Baluchistan
 
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Frankly if you wish to support Balochistan do it covertly , hardly something you wish to announce from the ramparts of the red fort.
that said this is a major shift in the policy vis a vie Pakistan . Dont know how this will play out in diplomatic circles but this is now a whole new ball game.

So that means you are for supporting terrorism and you endorse Indian state policy of sponsoring terror in a neighboring country!

Your country is trying very hard to manufacture Baluchistan issue. All power to you but you have very genuine fault lines in your own country. Dont invite your enemy in your house where the powder keg just needs a lighted matchstick.

Mentioning Baluchistan is such a false bravado from Modi. For chest thumping jingoistic Indians its a victory speech. For us Pakistanis its a sign of desperation. You cant ignore Kashmir. Try as much as you want. People of Kashmir dont want to live with you. They have demonstrated it without any support from Pakistan.
 
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So that means you are for supporting terrorism and you endorse Indian state policy of sponsoring terror in a neighboring country!

Your country is trying very hard to manufacture Baluchistan issue. All power to you but you have very genuine fault lines in your own country. Dont invite your enemy in your house where the powder keg just needs a lighted matchstick.

Mentioning Baluchistan is such a false bravado from Modi. For chest thumping jingoistic Indians its a victory speech. For us Pakistanis its a sign of desperation. You cant ignore Kashmir. Try as much as you want. People of Kashmir dont want to live with you. They have demonstrated it without any support from Pakistan.

No one in this world cares for kashmir, only pakistan and india have to sort this out .

Yes there have been protests in the area , something which is a worry , but the govt has started to reach out , the problem will be solved. This is not the first time it has happened , it happened way back in 2010 , it may happen again , but the point is that it will be contained.
Kashmir has been with india and shall be with india, no matter who does what it shall be with us . Now you can feel good by saying that kashmir will break away , but fact is its a pipe dream , one which will not see the light of day for the next few generations.

What would be best is to make the LOC into the IB and be done with it . let there be a free exchange of people across the borders , in fact this is the formula which was close to being signed during musharrafs time , but he ended up being replaced.
 
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Frankly I am tired of the disproportionate attention Pakistan receives in India's poltical discourse. It is a neighbour of India's but at the heart of it they are a security problem that can be dealt with with at a ministerial level, there is no need for the PM to be giving them the relevence they crave.

If there were great riches to be made with improved relations with Pakistan then I would wholeheartedly welcome an outreach as large as possible but frankly Pakistan offers almost negligable benefits for India as it stands and they simply aren't open to economic ties with India so why waste the time? Their security establishment is not about to ditch their decades long proxy war with India. Treat Pakistan how it is asking to be treated- as a security problem and leave it at that. The PM (and senior ministers) should be focusing their attention on far more fruitful endeavours such as improved ties with the US, UK, France/EU, China, Japan, Australia, S.Korea, Iran, Middle East, Israel etc etc.


@Joe Shearer @PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @nair @Levina

Improvement starts with "I".
Why majority of Indians found there self always on a Pakistani Defense Forum? more then their own forums? Why?
 
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