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Top 10 Nations in Maths, Sciences & Reading

2/4 Indian states out of 28 and still no knowledge of how the the students were selected and which type of schools were targeted.

You should go to the OECD site, they have a detailed explaination of the methodology of their tests, which are taken very seriously in all developed countries. Basically, all students at the age of 15 can take part in the test. The selection is taken randomly from all kinds of schools, private as well as public schools and the numbers of students coming from these schools are weighted depending on how many are going to private or public schools.

I read that those two Indian states were choosen because they are fairly good in education. And from what I heard from my friends in China, shanghai education is not the best either, because shanghai students have easy access to university while students from poorer provinces have to fight for a seat.
 
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Nation?And the first rank is Shanghai?Maybe cuz its better than rest of China..
Where does the whole of China stand together in the rankings?
Quite a pathetic survey..surveying different cities for China and ranking the cities amongst the aggregates of other countries..
What logic is this?!


Picking up Shanghai and Honk Kong(for which China can't even take full credit!) from China and other countries as a whole..
Can anyone please explain me(who believes in this survey),how is this even close to being logical?
 
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Nation?And the first rank is Shanghai?Maybe cuz its better than rest of China..
Where does the whole of China stand together in the rankings?
Quite a pathetic survey..surveying different cities for China and ranking the cities amongst the aggregates of other countries..
What logic is this?!


Picking up Shanghai and Honk Kong(for which China can't even take full credit!) from China and other countries as a whole..
Can anyone please explain me(who believes in this survey),how is this even close to being logical?

are you suffering from dyslexia?
 
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Nation?And the first rank is Shanghai?Maybe cuz its better than rest of China..
Where does the whole of China stand together in the rankings?
Quite a pathetic survey..surveying different cities for China and ranking the cities amongst the aggregates of other countries..
What logic is this?!


Picking up Shanghai and Honk Kong(for which China can't even take full credit!) from China and other countries as a whole..
Can anyone please explain me(who believes in this survey),how is this even close to being logical?

This might answers your question:

8 May 2012 Last updated at 23:03 GMT

China: The world's cleverest country?
By Sean Coughlan BBC News education correspondent

China's results in international education tests - which have never been published - are "remarkable", says Andreas Schleicher, responsible for the highly-influential Pisa tests.

These tests, held every three years by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, measure pupils' skills in reading, numeracy and science.

Pisa tests - the Programme for International Student Assessment - have become the leading international benchmark.

The findings indicate that China has an education system that is overtaking many Western countries.

While there has been intense interest in China's economic and political development, this provides the most significant insight into how it is teaching the next generation.
'Incredible resilience'

The Pisa 2009 tests showed that Shanghai was top of the international education rankings.

But it was unclear whether Shanghai and another chart-topper, Hong Kong, were unrepresentative regional showcases.

Mr Schleicher says the unpublished results reveal that pupils in other parts of China are also performing strongly.

"Even in rural areas and in disadvantaged environments, you see a remarkable performance."

In particular, he said the test results showed the "resilience" of pupils to succeed despite tough backgrounds - and the "high levels of equity" between rich and poor pupils.

"Shanghai is an exceptional case - and the results there are close to what I expected. But what surprised me more were the results from poor provinces that came out really well. The levels of resilience are just incredible.

"In China, the idea is so deeply rooted that education is the key to mobility and success."
Investing in the future

The results for disadvantaged pupils would be the envy of any Western country, he says.

Mr Schleicher is confident of the robustness of this outline view of China's education standards.

In an attempt to get a representative picture, tests were taken in nine provinces, including poor, middle-income and wealthier regions.

The Chinese government has so far not allowed the OECD to publish the actual data.

But Mr Schleicher says the results reveal a picture of a society investing individually and collectively in education.

On a recent trip to a poor province in China, he says he saw that schools were often the most impressive buildings.

He says in the West, it is more likely to be a shopping centre.

"You get an image of a society that is investing in its future, rather than in current consumption."

There were also major cultural differences when teenagers were asked about why people succeeded at school.

"North Americans tell you typically it's all luck. 'I'm born talented in mathematics, or I'm born less talented so I'll study something else.'

"In Europe, it's all about social heritage: 'My father was a plumber so I'm going to be a plumber'.

"In China, more than nine out of 10 children tell you: 'It depends on the effort I invest and I can succeed if I study hard.'

"They take on responsibility. They can overcome obstacles and say 'I'm the owner of my own success', rather than blaming it on the system."
Education's World Cup

This year will see another round of Pisa tests - it's like World Cup year for international education. And Mr Schleicher's tips for the next fast-improving countries are Brazil, Turkey and Poland.

Mr Schleicher, a German based in the OECD's Paris headquarters, has become the godfather of such global education comparisons.

Armed with a spreadsheet and an impeccably polite manner, his opinions receive close attention in the world's education departments.

The White House responded to the last Pisa results with President Barack Obama's observation that the nation which "out-educates us today will out-compete us tomorrow".

The next round of global league tables will test 500,000 pupils in more than 70 countries - with the results to be published late next year.

Education ministers will be looking nervously at the outcome.

"In the past, politicians could always say we're doing better than last year - everyone could be a success," he says, describing the tendency for national results to rise each year.

The arrival of Pisa tests sent an icy draught through these insulated corridors.
No excuses

Perhaps the biggest discomfort of all was for Germany - where "Pisa shock" described the discovery that their much vaunted education system was distinctly average.

And the biggest change in attitude, he says, has been the United States - once with no interest in looking abroad, now enthusiastically borrowing ideas from other countries.

"Education is a field dominated by beliefs and traditions, it's inward looking. As a system you can find all kinds of excuses and explanations for not succeeding.

"The idea of Pisa was to take away all the excuses.

"People say you can only improve an education system over 25 years - but look at Poland and Singapore, which have improved in a very short time, we've seen dramatic changes."

The biggest lesson of the Pisa tests, he says, is showing there is nothing inevitable about how schools perform.

"Poverty is no longer destiny. You can see this at the level of economies, such as South Korea, Singapore."
Fair comparison?

A criticism of such rankings has been that it is unfair. How can an impoverished developing country be compared with the stockpiled multiple advantages of a wealthy Scandinavian nation?

Here Mr Schleicher makes a significant distinction. It might not be fair, but such comparisons are extremely relevant. "Relevance and fairness are not the same thing," he says.

Youngsters in the poorest countries are still competing in a global economy. "It's a terrible thing to take away the global perspective."

He also attacks the idea of accepting lower expectations for poorer children - saying this was the "big trap in the 1970s".

"It was giving the disadvantaged child an excuse - you come from a poor background, so we'll lower the horizon for you, we'll make it easier.

"But that child has still got to compete in a national labour market.

"This concept of 'fairness' is deeply unfair - because by making life easier for children from difficult circumstances, we lower their life chances."
'Sorting mechanism'

So why are the rising stars in Asia proving so successful?

Mr Schleicher says it's a philosophical difference - expecting all pupils to make the grade, rather than a "sorting mechanism" to find a chosen few.

He says anyone can create an education system where a few at the top succeed, the real challenge is to push through the entire cohort.

In China, he says this means using the best teachers in the toughest schools.

The shifting in the balance of power will be measured again with Pisa 2012, with pupils sitting tests from Stockholm to Seoul, London to Los Angeles, Ankara to Adelaide.

"I don't think of Pisa as being about ranking, it tells you what's possible. How well could we be doing?"

I think this year (Spring 2012), all of China's provinces have taken part and we are all waiting for the results coming out next year. It will certainly be interesting! :)

Here you can see how serious we take the PISA test. The Technische Universität München is in charge of the German tests by order of the German ministry of culture.

PISA 2012: Home
 
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Four Indian states from North (HP), South (TN), East (Orissa) and West (Rajasthan) participated in PISA and TIMSS and all ranked at or near bottom. Do you think that if the most populous and the most backward states of UP, MP and Bihar participated, the results would be any better?

Haq's Musings: PISA & TIMSS Confirm Low Quality of Indian Education

Haq if Shanghai a city is taken in to survey then for India also the survey should be based on Cities such us Chennai or Mumbai, because Tamil Nadu is a state not city, and it shows your level of IQ to compare a state data with a city data...

The world knows the strength of Indians in Mathematics, that is the reason almost 1/3 of the start-ups in Silicon Valley are run by Indians and also today India is a major software power because of the interest in Mathematics among Indian youngsters..

Love for Mathematics among Indians is ancient phenomena and i can give you many examples, below is one about a great genius who learnt Maths on his own!!!

Srinivasa Ramanujan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Dude, you're talking about two undeveloped states compared to developed one.
If you've been to the US, you'd know that Asian and Pakistani and Indian students outclass Americans with ease

And who they are those Americans? USA is a state of immigrants.
 
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I can understand what you actually want to mean. By 15-17 year a Child mostly complete primary and secondary education. Since Pakistan don't spend a big amount like India, very few in Pakistan has privilege to complete Primary and secondary education compared to India, it is highly likely that enrollment ratio in University is more than India but graduate percentage is still higher compared to Pakistan.

Tertiary education enrollment ratio.
World Development Indicators and Global Development Finance - Google Public Data Explorer



Himachal Pradesh has very low population, even less than Delhi.

No, you got it all wrong!

Pakistan has a higher percentage of population who have completed secondary and tertiary education than India, according to Barro & Lee. India has much higher drop out rate at these levels.

There are 401 (vs 465 Indians) out of every 1000 Pakistanis who made it to secondary school. 290 (vs 69 Indians) completed secondary school while 111 (vs. 394 Indians) dropped out. Only 55 (vs 58 Indians) made it to college out of which 39 (vs 31 Indians) graduated with a degree.

Haq's Musings: Educational Attainment in India & Pakistan

Haq if Shanghai a city is taken in to survey then for India also the survey should be based on Cities such us Chennai or Mumbai, because Tamil Nadu is a state not city, and it shows your level of IQ to compare a state data with a city data...

The world knows the strength of Indians in Mathematics, that is the reason almost 1/3 of the start-ups in Silicon Valley are run by Indians and also today India is a major software power because of the interest in Mathematics among Indian youngsters..

Love for Mathematics among Indians is ancient phenomena and i can give you many examples, below is one about a great genius who learnt Maths on his own!!!

Srinivasa Ramanujan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shanghai is huge city with a population of 18 million, three times the population of the entire state of Himachal Pradesh.

And there is a huge gap between Shanghai and Indian states with Shanghai ranking #1 and Indian states ranking #72 and #73.

PISA%2BIndia%2BBottom.jpg


Haq's Musings: PISA & TIMSS Confirm Low Quality of Indian Education
 
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RiazHaq is a Pakistani fanboy and ''Cyber Joker''. He doesn't have his own intellect or resources to survey and research but does plagiarism and doctor facts available from shoddy websites. Anyone especially new posters who really wants to learn something good, quoting his blog are Idiots of highest level. If anyone goes by the trend of his garbage and intermediate school level vocabulary used one can clearly see he has only one agenda to put bad light on India.

As far as Chinese are concern one can only pity on their bigotry and self pride for the hype they have created living behind firewall, close media not so people's republic nation and history full of suppression and inferiority complex they are trying to conquer by comparing themselves with developing nations, having no guts of doing the same with any develop western nations.

The PISA or Pi$$ or whatever.... test is a $h1t authority to decide who is better in maths and science.

Also it doesn't suit Pakistanis to sledge Indians when non of their university in recent times has produced even couple of genuine Phd. level thesis on Mathematics but are known for awarding doctorates to influential people for money or other benefits/reasons for their non-clinical, non-scientific nonsense.
 
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Proves once again our superiority over Indians in intelligence.

Where is any Indian city/state/province on this list?

We are just smarter.

I think 2012 will include all of china.

Let's see where boasting Indians are on the list, my guess is they will be near the bottom of the list like all other lists.

This list proves the difference in IQ, 105 vs 85.
 
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Pls don't forget the following:





The only one being stupid is you who decided to bash Indian without going through the thread. Only Shanghai was sampled from China while 2 Indian states was sampled from India. Its not a fair comparison.Instead it should be Shanghai vs Mumbai vs Newyork etc.



Can anybody pls tell me why TN & HP was selected and not other states.



Indian employers (atleast in the Govt sector) needs marks, not knowledge..so as long as this mentality prevails rote learning will be encouraged over applications, logic and out of the box thinking.

Ok I am sorry I was stupid not you, never you
cant argue with retards, this wasnt a competition between Mumbai and any other country
take the freaking results or dont, no one gives a flying FFFFF
 
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No, you got it all wrong!

Pakistan has a higher percentage of population who have completed secondary and tertiary education than India, according to Barro & Lee. India has much higher drop out rate at these levels.

There are 401 (vs 465 Indians) out of every 1000 Pakistanis who made it to secondary school. 290 (vs 69 Indians) completed secondary school while 111 (vs. 394 Indians) dropped out. Only 55 (vs 58 Indians) made it to college out of which 39 (vs 31 Indians) graduated with a degree.

Haq's Musings: Educational Attainment in India & Pakistan


You are trying to negate world Bank's data with your blog. India still fare far better than Pakistan in enrollment ratio as well as completion ratio in Primary and secondary education. You just revist the links I provided you.

With just 0.9% of GDP on education Pakistan could not get rid of mass illiteracy.
 
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As far as Chinese are concern one can only pity on their bigotry and self pride for the hype they have created living behind firewall, close media not so people's republic nation and history full of suppression and inferiority complex they are trying to conquer by comparing themselves with developing nations, having no guts of doing the same with any develop western nations.

The PISA or Pi$$ or whatever.... test is a $h1t authority to decide who is better in maths and science.

k1x8bq.jpg


No wonder indians are mad LOL :rofl:
 
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You are trying to negate world Bank's data with your blog. India still fare far better than Pakistan in enrollment ratio as well as completion ratio in Primary and secondary education. You just revist the links I provided you.

With just 0.9% of GDP on education Pakistan could not get rid of mass illiteracy.

you comparing yourself with Pakistan, a failed State???
come on your guys are better than us we have already established that, compete with China (Shainghai or hong kong lol)

this is hillarious :shout:
 
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India I believe has a massive illeterate population.

So India's low ranking just confirms things we already know.

It's common with all 3rd world nations.
India is a poverty stricken nation.
 
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