‘Too upset and angry’: Muslim teen barred from top London school for wearing veil quits

[TankMan]

Now let's see al those countries "equal to Europe" in rights that you've listened.



In Kuwait, it is not allowed to proselytize Muslims.STRIKE ONE.

In Oman it is not allowed to proselytize Muslims.STRIKE TWO.So,pls refrain to compare these with Europe,it's just silly.





Now,my personalfavourite on your list...Brunei !





Marriages between Christians and Muslims are prohibited.


Schools are not allowed to teach Christianity.

Yeah,they're just like Europe.

STRIKE THREE...you're out !

Dude, look, he did not say that they are just like Europe, read his posts again if you don't believe me. He said that the countries he mentioned do not claim to be liberal, tolerant or secular, yet they do provide a good amount of rights to minorities. This rebuts your point that every Muslim country in the world mass murders its minorities and are all barbaric.

UK says it is tolerant, liberal and secular and that this makes it better than Muslim countries which are intolerant. Now, the UK (actually just one school in the UK) is displaying intolerance by not allowing the veil.
The point is that you can't have tolerance and discriminate against Muslims at the same time. You are either tolerant or you are not.

Now i'm not saying that Europe is like Saudi Arabia. It is more tolerant and completely different, but the point still stands. Saudi Arabia never claims to be tolerant either. It clearly says it is an Islamic state for Muslims. Saudis don't go around telling people 'we're better than you, look how tolerant and liberal we are'. Europe and UK on the other hand, do that a lot.

Nevermind the occasional church storming in these states like in Pakistan,Egypt accompanied by the casual killing of christians by muslim mobs.

For each Muslim mob that kills Christians, there are plenty of Muslim mobs killing other Muslims. The only difference is that killing of Christians is highlighted more. Its more about being under-developed and political instability than about Islam or religious intolerance.

 

[flamer84]

Dude, look, he did not say that they are just like Europe, read his posts again if you don't believe me. He said that the countries he mentioned do not claim to be liberal, tolerant or secular, yet they do provide a good amount of rights to minorities. This rebuts your point that every Muslim country in the world mass murders its minorities and are all barbaric.

UK says it is tolerant, liberal and secular and that this makes it better than Muslim countries which are intolerant. Now, the UK (actually just one school in the UK) is displaying intolerance by not allowing the veil.
The point is that you can't have tolerance and discriminate against Muslims at the same time. You are either tolerant or you are not.

Now i'm not saying that Europe is like Saudi Arabia. It is more tolerant and completely different, but the point still stands. Saudi Arabia never claims to be tolerant either. It clearly says it is an Islamic state for Muslims. Saudis don't go around telling people 'we're better than you, look how tolerant and liberal we are'. Europe and UK on the other hand, do that a lot.


For each Muslim mob that kills Christians, there are plenty of Muslim mobs killing other Muslims. The only difference is that killing of Christians is highlighted more. Its more about being under-developed and political instability than about Islam or religious intolerance.

My point was,and still is ,how does that veil ban nullify all those other liberties ? How can Europe be intolerant just because of the veil ban ? The answer is that it's not .It is just a simple rule,a garment we chose not to accept,some muslims blow this thing out of proportion.I think it's better that face covers should be banned all over Europe by law (balaclavas,veils,etc) and we can all move on.We will find that Islam can thrive in Europe even without veils.

 

[Donatello]

Caste system is getting uprooted in India very fast and now only exists in rural areas.
Btw there;Brahmins are loosing there power as more and more lower caste people are getting at higher positions due to caste system.

So you do admit it exists.

It's always fun asking 'secular, liberal' Indians about caste system and they say it's getting uprooted and bla bla. Ask them if they'll marry someone from the Dalits, and the look on their face is just priceless.

 

[Desert Fox]

Why do these people bother immigrating to Western countries if they find it this hard to adjust?? I'm sure they'll allow her to wear a Hijab. Who ever said she had to dress up like lady gaga to go to the school??

My point was,and still is ,how does that veil ban nullify all those other liberties ? How can Europe be intolerant just because of the veil ban ? The answer is that it's not .It is just a simple rule,a garment we chose not to accept,some muslims blow this thing out of proportion.I think it's better that face covers should be banned all over Europe by law (balaclavas,veils,etc) and we can all move on.We will find that Islam can thrive in Europe even without veils.

A better option would be to deport all of these people to the so called "Islamic State" (ISIS) where they can enjoy all of the "liberties" provided to them like not allowing girls to go to school. Problem solved and everyone's happy.

 

[TankMan]

My point was,and still is ,how does that veil ban nullify all those other liberties ? How can Europe be intolerant just because of the veil ban ? The answer is that it's not .It is just a simple rule,a garment we chose not to accept,some muslims blow this thing out of proportion.I think it's better that face covers should be banned all over Europe by law (balaclavas,veils,etc) and we can all move on.We will find that Islam can thrive in Europe even without veils.

It does not nullify any other liberties. This particular veil issue is nothing, and the west's dislike for the veil is still understandable. (Security issues + Social interaction)

a garment we chose not to accept

The thing is you can't just choose not to accept a garment for no reason. The whole point of liberalism is to accept other people's ideas. Either ban all face coverings or let women wear the veils. If only Muslim style veils were to be banned, that would be discrimination. I agree with you that all face covers should be banned in public.

The veil is not a requirement in Islam, its more of a traditional thing or personal choice. A simple scarf covering the head is enough.

 

[jatt+gutts]

secular nations give equal importance to all religions but sometimes muslims take it a whole different level.. Islam is a great religion but islamist give it a bad name..burka is not requirement in islam so no point in the statement she wast allowed to practice religion freely.. burka is insulting to men.. it shows she feels men are animals n as if all men are ready to jump on her if she shows her face..

 

[flamer84]

The thing is you can't just choose not to accept a garment for no reason. The whole point of liberalism is to accept other people's ideas. Either ban all face coverings or let women wear the veils. If only Muslim style veils were to be banned, that would be discrimination. I agree with you that all face covers should be banned in public.
The veil is not a requirement in Islam, its more of a traditional thing or personal choice. A simple scarf covering the head is enough.

That's what i've said....ban all face coverings in public.I would be equally worried if i saw a random dude in a ski mask walking by next to me in August.

As i told @Akheilos in another discussion i found the minaret law in Switzerland retarded.Now,on that we can discuss as being discriminatory.

 

[Desert Fox]

UK says it is tolerant, liberal and secular and that this makes it better than Muslim countries which are intolerant. Now, the UK (actually just one school in the UK) is displaying intolerance by not allowing the veil.
The point is that you can't have tolerance and discriminate against Muslims at the same time. You are either tolerant or you are not.

So they don't allow a veil due to the fact that it poses security threat, which is a legitimate concern, and thus that makes them intolerant towards Muslims??

A lot of known extremists and terrorists in Pakistan have used the veil to flee prosecution by the police in numerous instances, thus the concern that the veil poses security threat is legitimate.

 

[jatt+gutts]

she should know by wearing burka she is insulting male students.....insulting others is not allowed in advanced cultures

 

[vK_man]

So you do admit it exists.

It's always fun asking 'secular, liberal' Indians about caste system and they say it's getting uprooted and bla bla. Ask them if they'll marry someone from the Dalits, and the look on their face is just priceless.

Why? I know sikhs and hindus who are married to dalit men/women. Nowadays ,the criteria for marriage is not caste,but whether the person is successful financially,power,prestige .Not caste.

 

[Kabira]

Full burkha in school is little to much and not even required in islam.

 

[TankMan]

So they don't allow a veil due to the fact that it poses security threat, which is a legitimate concern, and thus that makes them intolerant towards Muslims??

A lot of known extremists and terrorists in Pakistan have used the veil to flee prosecution by the police in numerous instances, thus the concern that the veil poses security threat is legitimate.

So they don't allow a veil due to the fact that it poses security threat, which is a legitimate concern, and thus that makes them intolerant towards Muslims??

Firstly, in this particular incident, there was nothing about security threats. They pulled some bull about how it hinders 'teacher-student interaction' or something.

Secondly, I have said in many of my posts on this threads that banning the veil is understandable due to security threats, but my opinion is that they should just ban covering the face in public and not just the veil.

Also,

(actually just one school in the UK)

Its just this one school. I am not saying that its the whole UK that's displaying intolerance.
Either ban face covering in general or let them wear their veil.

 

[vK_man]

Firstly, in this particular incident, there was nothing about security threats. They pulled some bull about how it hinders 'teacher-student interaction' or something.

Secondly, I have said in many of my posts on this threads that banning the veil is understandable due to security threats, but my opinion is that they should just ban covering the face in public and not just the veil.

Also,

Its just this one school. I am not saying that its the whole UK that's displaying intolerance.
Either ban face covering in general or let them wear their veil.

Schools are private institutions. Against their code of rules. Plus no one is in mood to bend over their backs.

I suggest you email the uk govt on this or the school management.

 

[TankMan]

Schools are private institutions. Against their code of rules. Plus no one is in mood to bend over their backs..

I have replied to this very argument before.
I said:

So you mean to say that a private school should not obey state laws?
Like I said before, I am not denouncing the school's action. It's their school after all. However, since this school is located in a country that preaches tolerance, the school should adhere to the country's principles and laws. If they were to ban someone because they are Muslim (without the veil), it would be in violation of the UK's anti-discrimination laws.
However, in this case, the school had a somewhat legitimate reason against the veil.
Equality Act 2010: guidance - Detailed guidance - GOV.UK
Discrimination: your rights - GOV.UK

Also, it wasn't against their rules. Their rules were:

‘We have an appearance policy and students at the school may wear what they wish subject to any requirement in the interests of teaching and learning, health and safety. Inappropriate dress which offends public decency or which does not allow teacher-student interactions will be challenged.’

They argue that the veil interferes with interaction

 

[Supply&Demand]

She is born and bred in UK and is a British citizen, dumbo.

then she should better follow the rules and culture of Uk and not bring in Arabian laws..If she wants to follow arabian laws, she should go and stay in Arabia or Pakistan....