To Talk or not to Talk[ Gen Tariq's take on Niazi's talks with terrorists]

[Vapnope]

The way it was all started was problematic. It gave us almost a civil war with 8000 deaths and even today dying pretty much on daily bases. So Musharraf actions can't be defended. Like it or not it wasn't our war. It was made our war by disastrous policies of Musharraf.

So you are saying that these people inviting and harboring al qaida terrorist was okay and somehow we were at fault when we asked them to leave. You really neee to be clear on your stance because you borderline sound like TTP apologist.

 

[HAIDER]

Why no civilian end up writing these? One would imagine that they have the biggest stake in it.





Tribal jirgas should be banned by the supreme court. There cannot be multiple judicial systems in the country. Offer them to be tried under federal shariah court.

Right now Maulana Taqi Usmani in talks with few factions of TTP. Let's wait and see the result.

 

[Bouncer]

Getting high on Imran Khan has cooked your brain. Because he has been elected Prime Minister, not Autocrat. One man's vision cannot form state policy. And before your cooked brain comes up with another lame excuse, let me tell you that your establishment is compromised by installing the traitor Bajwa the COAS as its chief, so the argument that 'establishment is behind the decision' falls flat as well. If anything, Gen Tariq's article shows the dissent of the system. He is the face of dissent for those who are currently in service and duty stops them from freely speaking their minds.

Let us also not forget that Imran Khan has not been given a 2/3rds majority. This is clear indication by the people that he needs to listen to the opposition and take steps based on consultation. So your argument about democratically elected Prime Minister falls short on democracy as well.

Finally, let me help your cooked brain understand what I am saying. I am saying, there is a possibility that this current negotiation with Taliban is the result of our own ill-considered policy of recommending 'inclusive government' and 'peaceful negotiations' to the Taliban. In order to support an infeasible and incorrect principle, we could be further digging ourselves into a hole.

My "cooked" brain tells me that talks are the only way out of insurgencies--and this is shown time and again in places like Algeria, Ireland and Afghanistan. And I consider my country fortunate that we have a leader who had the balls to say so when entire world was high on WOT and our very own General Commando was selling my countrymen for $6000 a piece.

IK was called Taliban Khan but he stuck to his guns and he was proven right. So I am very confident alhamdulillah that will be right again. You are free to disagree with his policies though calling your sitting PM and your chief of army staff traitors is just pathetic.

To be honest, after these comments and that other economic thread of yours, I am not sure where exactly to place you; Noon league fanatic who just has to oppose IK or some religious sectarian weirdo or one of those internet conspiracy theorists?

 

[CriticalThought]

My "cooked" brain tells me that talks are the only way out of insurgencies--and this is shown time and again in places like Algeria, Ireland and Afghanistan. And I consider my country fortunate that we have a leader who had the balls to say so when entire world was high on WOT and our very own General Commando was selling my countrymen for $6000 a piece.

IK was called Taliban Khan but he stuck to his guns and he was proven right. So I am very confident alhamdulillah that will be right again. You are free to disagree with his policies though calling your sitting PM and your chief of army staff traitors is just pathetic.

To be honest, after these comments and that other economic thread of yours, I am not sure where exactly to place you; Noon league fanatic who just has to oppose IK or some religious sectarian weirdo or one of those internet conspiracy theorists?

Really? So why haven't you been writing about this and advocating these talks up till now? Oh wait, you really don't have an opinion of your own, you are a blind follower of Imran Khan. And that is what's so dangerous about this situation. The blind following of a moron called Imran Khan.

If in your mind the world is divided between religious sectarian weirdos, Noon league fanatics, internet conspiracy theorists, and PTI followers, your mind is filled with very low quality gray matter.

 

[Bouncer]

Really? So why haven't you been writing about this and advocating these talks up till now? Oh wait, you really don't have an opinion of your own, you are a blind follower of Imran Khan. And that is what's so dangerous about this situation. The blind following of a moron called Imran Khan.

If in your mind the world is divided between religious sectarian weirdos, Noon league fanatics, internet conspiracy theorists, and PTI followers, your mind is filled with very low quality gray matter.

I am happy to report that I am indeed a follower of His Excellency the Prime Minister of Pakistan Imran Khan. And Alhamdulillah, it gives me immense pleasure to also report that the policies being followed by this current Government are the ones I voted them in for. This is as per Shariah where common Muslims are expected to follow their leader, arguably.

 

[Apprentice]

There is so much hatred for Afghans today in our Pakistani society but Pakistanis also at the same time believe that their beloved Afghan Taliban is supported by the majority of Afghans. This is cognitive dissonance.

The majority of Afghans, including Pashtuns, hated the Afghan Taliban. The Taliban represented only a fraction of the rural Pashtun population in southern Afghanistan. As corrupt as the Karzai and Ghani governments were, they were preferred by most Afghans over the Taliban. The only reason former Afghan government lost was because their soldiers were not motivated enough to die for a corrupt government whereas the Taliban fighters were highly motivated by the thought that they were fighting to establish Sharia.

Our people bring up the actions of anti-Pakistan governments in Afghanistan between 1947-1992 while totally ignoring that in 1992 Pakistan had a golden opportunity to make brotherly relations with the Afghan Muslims we had assisted in the jihad against the Soviet Union.

Pakistan alienated the majority of Afghans in 1992 by supporting the rebellion of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar against the government of the Islamic State of Afghanistan under President Burhanuddin Rabbani. That government of Afghan Mujahideen, made up of both Pashtun and Tajik Islamists such as Burhanuddin Rabbani, Ahmed Shah Massoud and Abdul Rasul Sayyaf was not originally anti-Pakistan. They supported Kashmiri Muslims and were even willing to hold a referendum in Afghanistan on accepting the Durand Line as the international border. They just wanted an independent foreign policy. ISI could not have that.

Later, Pakistan shifted from supporting Hekmatyar to the hardline Deobandi Taliban. It was only after Pakistan supported the Taliban which overthrew the Afghan mujahideen's government in Kabul in 1996, that Rabbani and Massoud created Northern Alliance and started taking help from India. Ironically, the Taliban (being Pashtun themselves) never accepted the Durand Line.

Pakistan had a chance to reconcile with the Northern Alliance in 2001 when the Taliban was overthrown and the majority of Afghans welcomed the US' overthrow of the Taliban. Instead Pakistan continued providing safe havens to the Afghan Taliban who carried out an insurgency against the Afghan Muslim government and killed tens of thousands of Afghan Muslim civilians, especially in suicide bombings.

This is why most Afghans hate us.

The Taliban did the same thing in Afghanistan which TTP did in Pakistan.

As for TTP, there can be no doubt they share the same ideology and have links with the Afghan Taliban, regardless of whether India may have aided them or not. There are no Indians in Afghanistan today, yet the number of TTP attacks targeting our soldiers has increased since the US left and the Afghan Taliban came to power.

I don't think Afghan Taliban will ever cut off their ties with the TTP, regardless of what they might say. They even set TTP fighters free from jail when they came to power. Ironically, the former Afghan government which we blamed for terrorism had actually kept the TTP fighters in prison.

In my view its likely that Pakistan will eventually invade Afghanistan to overthrow the Afghan Taliban if this TTP problem is not resolved.

My only worry is that Pakistan Army, which reflects the sentiments of the society it comes from (which today is very anti-Afghan), might commit atrocities like rape and murder in Afghanistan as happened in Bangladesh in 1971. This would bring a bad name to our Army and brave jawans again. At least in 1971 we could argue that Pakistan Army was provoked by atrocities the Bengalis first committed against Bihari and West Pakistani Muslims.

The only way to stop this scenario is to educate Pakistanis that neither is the Afghan Taliban different to TTP nor does the Afghan Taliban represent the majority of Afghans.

In any future possible fight with the Afghan Taliban we MUST keep the Afghan people on OUR side.

 

[ziaulislam]

Honstly its pretty starigjt forward
Talk with individuals not organization

If talking takes off each commander off the battlefield then why bother firing dozen bullets that lead to dozens of people dying as collaterals

This isnt petty crimes its a well trained well motivated well funded organization we are talking about

 

[Maarkhoor]

Niazi really ? You think General Bajwa and Lt General Faiz have nothing to do with talks or you think that they opposed the talk. It was a mutual decision in fact most likely initiated by Armed Forces.

No....

 

[Vapnope]

accepting the Durand Line as the international border.

I would like to know the source for this statement.
As per then ambassador of Pakistan, Afghans didn't agree to our proposal of accepting durand line in Geneva accord. Even the Russian diplomat flew from Russia to convince incumbent Afghan govt to accept it. Afghan mujahideen or non mujahideen never have accepted Durand line and it will continue to hurt them badly.

accepting the Durand Line as the international border.

I would like to know the source for this statement.
As per then ambassador of Pakistan, Afghans didn't agree to our proposal of accepting durand line in Geneva accord. Even the Russian diplomat flew from Russia to convince incumbent Afghan govt to accept it. Afghan mujahideen or non mujahideen never have accepted Durand line and it will continue to hurt them badly.

 

[El Sidd]

Right now Maulana Taqi Usmani in talks with few factions of TTP. Let's wait and see the result.

Who requested him? He survived an assassination attempt where Sindh police named a neighbouring country as facilitator for the hit job.

 

[HAIDER]

Who requested him? He survived an assassination attempt where Sindh police named a neighbouring country as facilitator for the hit job.

PTI, yesterday Shiekh Rashid visited him at his Karachi residence.

 

[El Sidd]

PTI, yesterday Shiekh Rashid visited him at his Karachi residence.

Maybe he went there to update him on investigations in his attack case. Ofcourse it serves you a good purpose to propagate all sorts of nuisance.

 

[Fahad20007]

This is so going to come back to bite you in the axx

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

It is difficult to ask people to die, when you know some of them will,

 

[Sayfullah]

Anyone against peace with ttp doesn’t know how waziristan or tribal areas work and how their culture is. You guys don’t know the on ground realities and what people from there think about us. You guys get your news from biased western sources or Pakistani media which is biased and doesn’t show the other side and reality.
If we continue fighting ttp we’ll be fighting for decades in a endless war and we’ll lose all public support in tribal areas.
It’s easy for someone living in Lahore or Islamabad to advocate for war but have you guys ever thought about the struggles of average waziristanis or people from tribal areas?