To Talk or not to Talk[ Gen Tariq's take on Niazi's talks with terrorists]

[Goritoes]

Well, I’d worry more about Dems and Biden now - Pakistan is a distant land with exotic customs and ideals that transcend faith,morality and common sense.

Well I am planning a trip to Canada to my uncle in this Christmas, as a contingency plan, I have a feeling trump might win in next election...

 

[LeGenD]

I am starting to believe IK is sympathetic to TTP because he is also a Pathan.

Imran Khan is advocating for global recognition of IEA as well.

Sooner or later US will have to recognise Taliban govt: PM Imran Khan

PM Imran Khan gives interview to Turkish outlet TRT World. Says US is confused after the Taliban takeover. PM Khan says Pakistan will recognise Taliban government after consultation with neighbouring countries. ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Imran Khan has said that the US will have to recognise...

defence.pk

This analysis of Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan (retired) is instructive but "incomplete."

Khan is a vocal critic of Pakistani involvement in US-led War On Terror, and of Musharraf administration in this regard by extension.

Watch following interview to understand Khan's viewpoints on a broader level:

Afghan Taliban are facilitating talks between Pakistan and 'some' TTP groups from behind-the-scenes.

Pakistan’s PM Says Peace Talks Underway With Pakistani Taliban

Imran Khan’s disclosure comes as the TTP has intensified attacks against Pakistani security forces and other targets

www.voanews.com

Afghan Taliban released thousands of militants from Pul-e-Charkhi prison in August. These prisoners include senior members of TTP.

Video shows thousands of prisoners, reportedly including Islamic State and al Qaeda fighters, freed from Kabul jail by the Taliban

The Taliban freed thousands of prisoners from Bagram airbase and another facility near the Afghan capital.

www.businessinsider.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/05/pakistan-taliban-afghanistan/

What should GOP do in view of Pul-e-Charkhi prison break? Prime Minister is making unilateral calls over how to handle TTP lately?

This is why selectivism in 'criticism' is ill-advised.

Waziristan literally borders Afghanistan. People in this region are very close to Afghans in general. That TTP found refuge in Afghanistan in the aftermath of Operation Zarb-e-Azb is not surprising.

Mullah Omar did not sanction activities of TTP in Pakistan but Afghan Taliban and TTP were not 'enemies' of each other to begin with. Baitullah Mehsud (and TTP in general) openly regarded Mullah Omar as the Amir al-Mu'minin.

After death of Mullah Omar in 2013, some members of TTP pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and established ISIS-K in the region consequently. Some members of Afghan Taliban and people from other regions also joined this group. Afghan Taliban and ISIS-K do not get along nevertheless.

- - - -

For the record:

Obama administration declared an end to US-dominated involvement in Afghanistan in 2014.

Statement by the President on the End of the Combat Mission in Afghanistan

Today's ceremony in Kabul marks a milestone for our country.

obamawhitehouse.archives.gov

It was at this stage when USA put Ghani regime in charge of Afghanistan.

Obama administration shifted its focus to Middle East in view of emergence of ISIS across Iraq and Syria and launched Operation Inherent Resolve in 2014 to dislodge it.

Obama, in Speech on ISIS, Promises Sustained Effort to Rout Militants (Published 2014)

President Obama expanded the campaign against ISIS to include airstrikes in Syria and more American advisers in Iraq, but he sought to distinguish the new action from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

www.nytimes.com

Statement by the President on ISIL

State Floor 9:01 P.M. EDT

obamawhitehouse.archives.gov

I am not sure about how CIA could support TTP when the US Department of State officially branded TTP a terrorist organization in 2010. CIA killed successive TTP leaders such as Baitullah Mehsud in 2009, Hakimullah Mehsud in 2013, and Mullah Fazlullah in 2018. Mullah Fazlullah evaded several assassination attempts but was eventually caught and disposed off in 2018. There were literally hundreds of UAV strikes from CIA to eliminate numerous hardcore militants in Waziristan. These strikes are/were not well-received by 'some' in Pakistan, however. Even PM Imran Khan is among the 'critics' of these strikes.

Thousands in Pakistan Protest American Drone Strikes (Published 2013)

Demonstrators at a rally in Peshawar on Saturday vowed to stop NATO supply trucks unless the attacks ended.

www.nytimes.com

Do U.S. Drone Strikes Cause Blowback? Evidence from Pakistan and Beyond

Abstract. Many analysts argue that U.S. drone strikes generate blowback: by killing innocent civilians, such strikes radicalize Muslim populations at the local, national, and even transnational levels. This claim, however, is based primarily on anecdotal evidence, unreliable media reports, and...

direct.mit.edu

It comes down to how Ghani regime managed affairs in Afghanistan since 2014.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1437160302643142659

- - - -

It is not difficult for militant organizations like TTP to fund their activities which are not very expensive to begin with. These people are not bumbling idiots. Illegal drug trade, smuggling, extortions and kidnappings are well-known and well-documented methods.

aotp

aotp

www.unodc.org

Taliban funding relies on drugs, mining and extortion

Will a governing Taliban move away from their past illegal activities and practices and finally find reputable ways to fund themselves and run Afghanistan?

amp.dw.com

Pipe dreams: The Taliban and drugs from the 1990s into its new regime

Vanda Felbab-Brown explains the Taliban's drug policy since the 1990s through the current period, and the ground realities and policy implications of its recent poppy ban.

www.brookings.edu

Trump administration was anti-narcotics but it also failed to curb poppy cultivation in Afghanistan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-opium-poppy-production/

For general knowledge:

Mexican government have not succeeded in getting rid of Mexican drug cartels even though it wanted to since 2006. About 70,000 people have died in this protracted Mexican Civil War since 2006. Brutality of Mexican drug cartels is spine-chilling in fact.

- - - - -

20 years have passed and many in Pakistan still have disagreements over why Musharraf administration joined US-led War On Terror and refuse to 'own' this war by extension. There is absolute lack of national coherence in views about what happened in times of War On Terror in Pakistani discourses.

Pakistanis must not draw wrong conclusions from Taliban victory– Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan

Pakistanis must not draw wrong lessons from Taliban victory, situation is fluid and Pakistan should help bring stability to Afghanistan

www.globalvillagespace.com

Lt. Gen. Tariq Khan (retired) also noted the obvious.

There is a need to set records straight and achieve national coherence in this topic. A fact-finding commission will be of much help in this matter. WE sound like a broken record otherwise.

 

[Goritoes]

Imran Khan is advocating for global recognition of IEA as well.

Who happens to be to majority Pashtoon as well, I am pretty sure his ethnic loyalties are now showing its colors, we have seen this in Pakistan Army and Govt time and time again.

 

[KaiserX]

General Tariq says that TTP was routed from agencies and was then sheltered in nangarhar and paktia by NDS, CIA, RAW!
Why they were never targeted and eliminated there by Pakistan Army???
If infestation is left it finds a way to come back.
PA fought bravely to fight with TTP and driving them out but that was not a lasting success. The enemy was bound to return in same coin with TTP as Pakistan did with afghan taliban. Every silly civilian like me understood it but not Gen. Tariq and army establishment. They thought fence will stop them. But is it possible to completely control border movement? Every inch of border cannot be watched even if using motion sensors and drones.

It is not as simple as that. Commanders do what they are commanded to do. Pakistans offensive against the TTP NEVER ENTAILED STRIKES OR INVASION OF AFGHANISTAN.

Which have been our biggest downfall. Our politicians. We never had a strong leader that authorized strikes into afghanistan against TTP/BLA.

 

[Zarvan]

Zarvan you need to brush up your history. This narrative that this wasn't our war will not help us in fact it is unfair to the fallen brother and sisters.
TTP came into being when Pakistan army hunted down Al qaida and foreigner militants who were flocking to FATA using porous border of Pakistan and Afghanistan. The first deal was made with Taliban, or whatever you may want to call them, on the condition that no foreign militant will be allowed inside Pakistan. The operations were launched because those people didn't hold their promise.
Like it or not, but this was our war the day they opened fire on our people and tried to enforce a parallel system against constitution of Pakistan. .

It's not unfair it's brutal truth. The way it was all started was problematic. It gave us almost a civil war with 8000 deaths and even today dying pretty much on daily bases. So Musharraf actions can't be defended. Like it or not it wasn't our war. It was made our war by disastrous policies of Musharraf.

Brother i don't know if you know it or not but zarvan used to be an ardent supporter of terrorist in his early days on PDF,he called TTP terrorists soldiers of Allah their war against Pakistan jihad.
He's regurgitating the same stuff he said 8 years ago.

Terrorists should be separated from those ready for peace talks: Imran Khan

Terrorists should be separated from those ready for peace talks: Imran Khan Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) chairman Imran Khan said on Monday that if peace talks are to be given a chance, the people who are dedicated to an agenda of violence should be separated from those who are willing to...

defence.pk

I never supported terrorists, I told you facts and I still stand by those facts. And those facts are that we didn't had militancy problem. It was genius Musharraf who took U turn and the way he send troops in tribal areas to please USA gave birth to a monster called TTP. There are several interviews of USA Generals even they were stunned on what Musharraf was doing as they never asked for those things. As Khan understood Tribal areas and its people along with few others, they all predicted from day one that this is a disastrous policy and it would backfire. Which it did !!! It gave birth to TTP in 2006 and to this date we are no where close to defeating this monster. We have 80000 dead and are loosing soldiers daily. Just yesterday 4 soldiers and a Policeman were martyred. We are loosing people daily due to disastrous policies of Musharraf.

 

[pakpride00090]

I don't know niazi always had a soft corner for terrorist, and TTP even nominated him their representative right after they butchered dozens of FC soldiers.
Here's a video of him doing dalali for PTM which is political wing of terrorists.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1011625854546382849

I don't even have words to describe this one.
View attachment 781874

His mother is from waziristan.

He also wrote a book Warrior Race: A Journey Through the Land of the Tribal Pathans .... Looks like he is high on warrior myth and have very strong sympathies for TTP scum.

You put 2 and 2 together and can see why is he behaving like this. He is a national security threat because he is still thinking like an ethno supermacist pathan rather than a true Pakistani leader. Looks like now I understand why he keeps yapping about Afghan Taliban all the time and keeps defending them.

He showed you the mirror when leadership were blindly following US path, he was the one who predicted that it would go all wrong. When Musharraf took u turn even despite the fact that all of his Corps Commanders opposed it. Imran Khan saw what was coming. You never had TTP kind of group in Pakistan. It was Musharraf policies and three years of operations in Tribal areas which gave birth to monster we all now know as TTP. If you would have listened to people like Imran Khan from day one you would not have lost 80000 Pakistanis to this war on terror. TTP came into existence in 2006. Army went in Tribal areas in 2003. Please it's those who oppose Imran Khan and talks are the ones in need to correct history. Also bother to read how 98 % of insurgencies are ended in the world.

What a stupid low IQ analysis. No one buys this simplistic yet stupid argument. Give it a rest.

Brother i don't know if you know it or not but zarvan used to be an ardent supporter of terrorist in his early days on PDF,he called TTP terrorists soldiers of Allah their war against Pakistan jihad.
He's regurgitating the same stuff he said 8 years ago.

Terrorists should be separated from those ready for peace talks: Imran Khan

Terrorists should be separated from those ready for peace talks: Imran Khan Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) chairman Imran Khan said on Monday that if peace talks are to be given a chance, the people who are dedicated to an agenda of violence should be separated from those who are willing to...

defence.pk

Zarvan always smelled like a terrorist supporter. Looks like he is just one step away from being a full blown TTP member. PDF staff should report him to authorities.

You may never know , perhaps he is one of them and is here for surveillance and intelligence gathering.

 

[Turingsage]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1437160302643142659

Anwar Lodhi

@AnwarLodhi

Henry Kessinger on US failure in Afghanistan

Choosing India as strategic ally in Afghanistan was the key blunder. India, along with Afghanistan's NDS & a cartel of thugs like Ashraf Ghani

This particular Quote , with each Twitter account quoting each other , and repeated.

I cannot find where and when he said this.
Its not in any US interviews on TV or newspapers.

Perhaps you can point out where he said this and when. Not each Pakistani quoting someone else as a legitimate statement made by Kissinger.

I thank you

 

[pakpride00090]

I am starting to believe IK is sympathetic to TTP because he is also a Pathan.

Read post number 36 on this thread. I have touched upon this subject.

 

[airmarshal]

Imran could not have taken decision without ISI input or engagement. TTP is not one group or political party. It has many factions.

Just like the Baloch terrorists who were given amnesty, it does not hurt if the TTP group is broken and its factions which are amenable, are given amnesty.

This will not avoid TTP attacks just like BLA attacks still go on.

 

[airmarshal]

Some posters implying Imran Khan is ethnically biased is the perhaps the worst kind of criticism. Its pathetic.

As for Imran Khan or Pakistan government supporting Taliban, is there any other way forward? Taliban have won the war. Agree or not, they have routed the puppet government installed by foreign occupiers. The well equipped Afghan army did not even try to fight Taliban. They did not surrender. They disappeared. In this scenario and to avoid further instability, its better to be sympathetic to Taliban for no other purpose than to just bring some stability.

With Taliban in power, anti Pakistan forces dont get a foothold. Also, our Pashtoon nationalists dont find any resonance in Afghanistan. So even if taliban are not friendly, at least their govt create an environment which is agreeable to Pakistan.

Pakistan has suffered so much in last 4 decades. Keeping aside your ideological or political disagreements, its important we support government in Afghanistan. Otherwise, the situation is very uncertain and it will not be long before anti Pakistan forces find a corner in Afghanistan to wage another terror campaign. For this, Afghan government must be strengthened so that the can control all their territory.

 

[pakpride00090]

Some posters implying Imran Khan is ethnically biased is the perhaps the worst kind of criticism. Its pathetic.

Yes bro.. He came directly from sky without any biases and vices. Perhaps you should ask Tyrian white about it.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

War is politics by other means... says Clausewitz.

He(The General) is at the end of the day a soldier and must march on as instructed, no?

Isn't it a change of narrative really when a diverging or outright conflicting political shift happens via ballot?

Besides it isn't new that men fought for conflicting narratives and definitely not the last.
Reminds me of rant by a hindu sage in past few days on women's rights, his circular logic lost on him, ending with how women form the majority of Afghanistan... duh!
So, why Men go to war? Or, why mothers send their sons to die?
Narrative!!!
To those on whom women's rights are lost in Aghanistan, who won? Is it men's world or return to nature? And therefore a redundant argument...
Isn't it essentially someone toying with you and denigerating your creed or persuasions, your women ain't got rights, can't see enough skin on your mum(sis, daughter or wife)!!! Get it‽

So, back to the war... if loosing bright eyed young men is painful, then, it should remain so, even today!
And Not only for men under your command...
Because that wouldn't stop the bleeding nor put forward a paradigm achieved through different means.

It was and is essentially a failure of politics and deliverance that made you or fellow countrymen to pick weapons or draw blood on their fellow man.

On who's behest, a different question.

 

[Goritoes]

It's not unfair it's brutal truth. The way it was all started was problematic. It gave us almost a civil war with 8000 deaths and even today dying pretty much on daily bases. So Musharraf actions can't be defended. Like it or not it wasn't our war. It was made our war by disastrous policies of Musharraf.

Please enlighten us what did Mushrraf did wrong? AQ and Taliban fighters were hiding in FATA where PA or Govt has no access to it, these People from AQ has recently attacked and killed over 3000 Americans and the world is with them, so what in your brilliant mind should Mush should say to America? hey our Tribals are crazy, they don't follow Pakistani law nor Pakistan has any authority over these areas, but yet they are Part of Pakistan? that would be dumb and if Pakistan has said it America would invade the FATA with the Allied forces, and let me remind you something which you and retards likes you often forget, US was/is/will be in near future Super Power, their 5th fleet which is station in Bahrain is more than enough to level the entire Pakistan/Afghanistan/Iran combined, not to mentioned around 25+ Allied forces/ their resources/their Intelligence/their Influence and trade.

 

[CriticalThought]

Imran Khan is the elected Prime Minister of Pakistan. And people who voted for him, including yours truly, knew exactly who they were voting for. So yes, he has every right to make these decisions on our behalf.

Stop blindly worshipping your white daddies. They have been proven very wrong very recently (hint: in Afghanistan). Negotiation is the only way out of this mess. Khan sb said it many years ago and he was proven right. He will again prove to be right for this nation Insha'Allah.

Getting high on Imran Khan has cooked your brain. Because he has been elected Prime Minister, not Autocrat. One man's vision cannot form state policy. And before your cooked brain comes up with another lame excuse, let me tell you that your establishment is compromised by installing the traitor Bajwa the COAS as its chief, so the argument that 'establishment is behind the decision' falls flat as well. If anything, Gen Tariq's article shows the dissent of the system. He is the face of dissent for those who are currently in service and duty stops them from freely speaking their minds.

Let us also not forget that Imran Khan has not been given a 2/3rds majority. This is clear indication by the people that he needs to listen to the opposition and take steps based on consultation. So your argument about democratically elected Prime Minister falls short on democracy as well.

Finally, let me help your cooked brain understand what I am saying. I am saying, there is a possibility that this current negotiation with Taliban is the result of our own ill-considered policy of recommending 'inclusive government' and 'peaceful negotiations' to the Taliban. In order to support an infeasible and incorrect principle, we could be further digging ourselves into a hole.

 

[imadul]

It is sad and frustrating that we get sucked into discussing giving amnesty to TTP.
The question coming up means TTP was just suppressed and about 30-40% escaped to return and now when Taliban have come to power in Afghanistan it seems Pak State is loosing staminna by showing weakness towards ttp terrorists. The reason is Afghan Taliban not ready to take action against ttp and Pak is helpless though taliban need Pak more than ever.
Now die is cast. Ttp should be offered pardon if they throw away arms and live peacefully. For sure all of them wont accept it, those should be marked and eliminated.
Mush blundered by fetching US war, Lal masjid was mishandled and then just horror, but no point in lamenting. Leftovers of ttp must be eliminated if they don't throw arms.