Time to get Pakistan out of America's influence - China

[indushek]

Best way for Pakistan

Go friendly with India first, yes u are in a weak position and yes u may have to make some concessions which might be considered sell out from the ghairat brigade. but do it fixes more than 40 to 50% of ur problems. I don't mean kashmir here because India is happy with status quo. Look at this not as a post from an 'Indian'.

Start building stronger institutions and work on internal issues. A decade or two will bring u out of morass.

A decade or two is very little in life time of a country.

Build on trade using Chinese friendship and American partnership. Be strong on trade and other economic factors.

Finally come back to negotiate kashmir.

 

[tarrar]

China is truly Pakistan’s best friend. This corrupt Govt. had completely bowed down to US & was 'yes' to US without objections. US was still eyeing Gawadar port till the end until Gawadar was completely given to China. No US in Pakistan is in the best interest of both the countries (Pakistan & China). Pak China both know who is spreading terrorism in Balochistan province but thanks to our Military & Intel agencies today there is some or little stability in the province.

Gawadar Port will be a huge source of income for Pakistan & most of the income is going to come from China. Like Gen. Musharraf’s invitation to Russia to use the Gawadar port & warm waters, future Pakistani Govt. should try to invite Russia again.

 

[tarrar]

Best way for Pakistan

Go friendly with India first, yes u are in a weak position and yes u may have to make some concessions which might be considered sell out from the ghairat brigade. but do it fixes more than 40 to 50% of ur problems. I don't mean kashmir here because India is happy with status quo. Look at this not as a post from an 'Indian'.

Start building stronger institutions and work on internal issues. A decade or two will bring u out of morass.

A decade or two is very little in life time of a country.

Build on trade using Chinese friendship and American partnership. Be strong on trade and other economic factors.

Finally come back to negotiate kashmir.

Lozzz. Your country does not wants peace with Pakistan, whenever Pakistan tries refresh ties, India screws up. Take recent LOC attacks for latest examples, India just stopped the proceeding relationships & this is what you have been doing in the past as well.

Pakistan does not need India & to be honest Pakistan is fine without India. As far as Kashmir goes, Kashmir is still illegally occupied & is a disputed territory.

India cannot be trusted at all.

 

[KRAIT]

Why just blame govt ? Why not Army ?

They have ruled Pakistan for half time.

It was Zia who took money from US,

Musharaff took money for WoT and allowed Drone attacks.

It is Army's job to provide security. Army has to kill the terrorists.

Its Army or Security forces and ISI job to safeguard Naval, Airforce Bases.

Its Army's or Security forces job to stop cross border terrorism from Afghanistan.

First, ask the Army and security forces that why people are killed on daily basis. 9 people died in Bomb blast yesterday in Orkazai. Its security failure.

For a change, blame your Army and ask them question that why they Fail Over and Over again in saving the people of Pakistan.

Pakistan's govt. is Corrupt but PA is Inefficient.

 

[Icewolf]

@KRAIT

One knows you cannot stop suicide attack... It's not that easy. Pak military cannot afford metal detectors at every post.

Also, Pak Army doesnt check every citizen either. It's not incompetency. Otherwise, Pakistan has done a great job disabling most suicide attacks. In fact, one report said, that for every suicide attack in Pakistan, 4 more have been disabled by the ISI.

 

[KRAIT]

@KRAIT
One knows you cannot stop suicide attack... It's not that easy. Pak military cannot afford metal detectors at every post.
Also, Pak Army doesnt check every citizen either. It's not incompetency. Otherwise, Pakistan has done a great job disabling most suicide attacks. In fact, one report said, that for every suicide attack in Pakistan, 4 more have been disabled by the ISI.

It applies to all countries. Its security forces and ISI's job to do so. For so much long time, they are failing over and over again.
Look at terrorist attacks in Pakistan. One can understand targeting of markets, but getting into military bases and destroying Millions worth of equipment which is important for security of Pakistan, there is serious flaw in the entire Security apparatus.

If they are stopping 4 attacks for 1, still if there are 40 attacks, they cant stop 10. What about the people died in 10 attacks ?
What will be the first question ? Why these 10 attacks were not avoided ?

 

[Pakistanisage]

I would prefer to have those IMF and WORLD BANK loans paid off by seizing the ill gotten wealth in foreign banks by Zardari and Nawaz Shariff and others. Any Pakistani Citizen who has wealth in foreign banks and cannot account for how that money was earned and accumulated should be ensnared by this net. Use this Balck money to payoff the loans that were siphoned off by these Corrupt officials.

Why Should our Chinese friends have to pay to enrich these robbers and thieves.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I would prefer to have those IMF and WORLD BANK loans paid off by seizing the ill gotten wealth in foreign banks by Zardari and Nawaz Shariff and others. Any Pakistani Citizen who has wealth in foreign banks and cannot account for how that money was earned and accumulated should be ensnared by this net. Use this Balck money to payoff the loans that were siphoned off by these Corrupt officials.

Why Should our Chinese friends have to pay to enrich these robbers and thieves.

This is a popular notion, and very emotional one.

But unfortunately like so many other popular stories, this one is based on incorrect assumptions.

Gadhari-Bhutto family has money stored away for sure. But its total value is estimated to be $60 million or so.
Sharif's have even less.
Imran Khan probably has few millions stored away.



On the other hand our debt runs in billions and billions and billions of dollars.

So there is no way we could ever pay off even a fraction of it by forcing Paks to spit out their overseas wealth. Assuming that it is even possible.


So then you may ask my dear Sir, if we can't rob the robber Gadhari, then how can we be economically prosperous?

Well!


the only way to get out of bad economy is to work.

Just like an educated young man has to go out and become an employee of a richer person,

So too nations have to go out and become employee of a richer person.

Examples of this are all around us.

S. Koreans, Chinese, Taiwanese, Indians, Japanese, Singapreans, are all those nations who go out and work for richer countries.


You buy an Apple I-Phone. Guess what, it is designed and sold by Apple Corporation of America. They make most of the profit.

But who worked their blood and sweat to make those phones. 1000s upon 1000s of Chinese workers.


So next time when you think about improving Pak economy, just thing how Chinese did it, Indians did it, and so many others did it.

--- By working their @rses off for the rich nations of the world.



Thank you.

 

[Norboo]

1. Why would China help in our wars? Pakistan can take care of India by itself, thank you very much.

No it can't! Just as China requires Pakistan to keep India at bay, so does Pakistan need China for the same.

2. China does NOT have a neutral stance on Kashmir. In China maps, IOK is shown as Pakistan & the CCP has come out to support Pakistan.

The more you open your mouth the more foolish you look. China’s declared positions on the Kashmir issue have evolved through four distinct phases. In the 1950s, Beijing upheld a more or less neutral position on the Kashmir issue. The 1960s and 1970s saw China shift its position toward public support of Pakistan’s views on the issue as Sino-Indian relations deteriorated. Since the early 1980s, however, with China and India moving toward normalization of bilateral relations, Beijing returned to a position of neutrality even as it sought to balance between the need to satisfy Pakistan’s demands for support and the growing interest in developing a better relationship with India. By the early 1990s, China’s position became unequivocal that the Kashmir issue is a bilateral matter to be solved by India and Pakistan through peaceful means. China is against a plebiscite in Kashmir, is for the status quo in Kashmir, and, generally, is for a settlement between India and Pakistan.

So don't invent fantasies that China supports Pakistan on Kashmir. It has a neutral stance.

3. Pakistan never asked China to bail itself.

The trouble with people like you is that you keep spewing garbage without knowing what the hell is going on even within your own country. For your information, read this: Pakistan takes $5bn IMF bail-out after allies refuse funds

Islamabad has been stung by rebuffs from its closest international partners - China, the US and Saudi Arabia - leaving it with few choices, but to approach the IMF. And there's more:

Pakistan nears bankruptcy, as China refuses aid
Pakistan will be forced to seek unpleasant help from the IMF, after failing to get a hoped-for bailout from China.

Want more? Never mind, let's move on....

4. China has given us flood relief money. Actually they were the first to help.

Out of the promised $200 million for flood relief, China has disbursed only $43 million to date even after several years!

5. Idiot, China was never involved in the IP pipeline.

Before calling me an idiot, do check the number of brain cells in your coconut head. Check this out:

Chinese bank pulls out of Pakistan-Iran pipeline project

Pakistani officials confirmed that Industrial and Commercial Bank of China had withdrawn from plans to head a consortium that would finance the $1.6-billion Pakistani portion of the cross-border pipeline,

Now who is an idiot?

6. A Chinese company has nothing to do with the Chinese govt.

They very much do. Without Chinese/CPC approval, no Chinese company can do any business anywhere in the world!

Again, you Indian, first research this stuff then talk... Moron Idiots..

Again, you Pakistani, first research this stuff then talk. So now tell me, who is a moronic Idiot? You or I? You just got mud on your face reading this, didn't you? Probably embarrassed too!

 

[indushek]

Lozzz. Your country does not wants peace with Pakistan, whenever Pakistan tries refresh ties, India screws up. Take recent LOC attacks for latest examples, India just stopped the proceeding relationships & this is what you have been doing in the past as well.

Pakistan does not need India & to be honest Pakistan is fine without India. As far as Kashmir goes, Kashmir is still illegally occupied & is a disputed territory.

India cannot be trusted at all.

Look that occasion was an unfortunate one. How many people would know beheadings are common and done by both sides?? and some how this news spilled into public space. Congress on its last leg couldn't be seen weak on this front as u know how emotional we both are on kasmir and loc.

Let us not get into past as there are similar actions on your part too. Its important that we take this one step ahead at a time.

 

[xyxmt]

That's easier said than done! Can China, Pakistan's all weather friend, afford to give the freebies that America is giving to Pakistan? No. Can China influence the international lending organizations like the IMF, World Bank etc? No. Can China be able to provide Pakistan hi-tech equipment matching American standards? No. Can China provide the aid that the US is giving Pakistan during natural calamities like floods etc? No.

Considering the present situation that Pakistan is in now, it would be a bad idea to even think of it!

heheheh

dont loose your sleep over it my Indian well wishers, it smells like stupid news

 

[jhankar]

I love China , they are Great Friends .... however i would rather repay my own debts then to have a friend pay it for me .

The crust of the matter is only that "Pakistan can pay off its loans by giving China access to Gwadar Port". No one is getting freebie, nor we expect to get any.

The difference is how to implement it:
1) Either China pay off the loan for Pakistan and use Gwadar Port free of charge for 10-15 years.
2) Or Pakistan pay off its loans in 20-25 years (due to corruption) through the payments received through Gwadar Port.

 

[Spring Onion]

Best way for Pakistan

Go friendly with India first, yes u are in a weak position and yes u may have to make some concessions which might be considered sell out from the ghairat brigade. but do it fixes more than 40 to 50% of ur problems. I don't mean kashmir here because India is happy with status quo. Look at this not as a post from an 'Indian'.

Pakistan has always been friendly towards India.

If India wants friendship with Pakistan then first you Indians have to demolish the over-reactionary forces like Saffron extremists.

We have seen how you Indians had stopped Pakistani peace spreading artists and writers from even attending festivals in India.

so go first control Hindu extremists and then come up we are all open to friendship with India as a country as well as people tp people level

Start building stronger institutions and work on internal issues. A decade or two will bring u out of morass.

A decade or two is very little in life time of a country.

Agreed.

Build on trade using Chinese friendship and American partnership. Be strong on trade and other economic factors.

Finally come back to negotiate kashmir.

Agreed

 

[Juice]

In the end, American influence benefits the nut-cases who post here. Can you imagine this site under Chinese rules? Would suck.

 

[SamantK]

Pakistan has always been friendly towards India.

Cant imagine when

If India wants friendship with Pakistan then first you Indians have to demolish the over-reactionary forces like Saffron extremists.

Back then, the head of the insitutions you say are propagating Saffron extemism starte the bus diplomacy and voila, Mushy saab though that AB Vajpayee and Nawaz became so close that India would not mind Pakistani soldiers occupying our peaks

We have seen how you Indians had stopped Pakistani peace spreading artists and writers from even attending festivals in India.

so go first control Hindu extremists and then come up we are all open to friendship with India as a country as well as people tp people level

Please leave what we do to us when the other party involved simply decides to come in uninvited