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Tianenmen Square Incident

What if the gangster are employed by government?
And when you call police, the police deny to deal with this issue?
:D Sorry, everyone. I would type Chinese to talk with hans.
这个事情很多征收情况都能碰到的,被征收户总是弱者,我们这里也发生过,出现过政府部门的人员贪污受贿被判刑,村民堵塞交通维权,村民为此还被拘留,打了三场架伤了几个人,找了两次律师,呵呵。最终基本上还是较好的解决了。在这里给出我的判断和建议。
1、政府部门不会雇佣地痞的,只能是开发商,征收推进越快他越赚钱,所以如果你怀疑这个问题请见第二条。
2、对于政府部门相关人员,如果是流氓做派的,很可能已经成为开发商的利益共同体,但这个是需要证据的。
3、警察处理这种民事纠纷没有太多办法,通常第一次调解,息事宁人,但这个他们又不能做到,第二次对打架出现的问题进行处理,该赔偿赔偿,该道歉道歉,第三次,警察也不愿意来处理这个事情了,这个是我们碰到的情况,虽然我反对堵塞交通。

所以,对策是:
1、在房子未拆之前,自己拍照留好证据,第一时间联系拆迁维权律师。
2、每次沟通、纠纷都拍照、录音。出现意外第一时间拍照、录音,如果人员受伤建议到法警医院,做相应备案及鉴定。
3、将每次发生的事情写成文字,可以发至当地的政府部门网站、腾讯地方网站、媒体自媒体公众号,微信朋友圈、维权网站,但文字不能过于偏激。
4、适当的跨级至乡镇、区、市信访、纪委部门,给当地政府造成压力。联名的诉求文件是比较重要的,避免造成有谁成为领头人,造成可能受流氓伤害及威胁的情况。
5、不要自己再发生违法的事情,如堵塞交通、影响公共秩序,这样警察都比较难做,对付流氓得想办法拍下照片并公布。
6、所有的事情在房屋被拆迁前都要尽量做好预案,最终都只有打官司才能真正维护自己的利益,特别是碰上当地的“重点工程项目”。在拆迁前应给予当地村、居委会部门压力,因为信息不对称问题,可能造成他们和开发商成为利益综合体,但最终处理问题又是他们最先出面,他们的角色很关键。

好了,这个是我自己的经验总结,其中还有吃过亏的地方。希望对你有帮助。

OK, we need to end this discussion here.
 
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I would agree some of your points..
These guys killed are mostly diehard who focus on seizing political power rather than practical improvement.
Yet this incident also lead to CCP distrust on people.
CCP used to trust people and people trust on CCP in 1980s.
And this incident ended the mutual trust between people and CCP.
CCP start to do what it want. People have no rights to say yes or no.
Though CCP achieve great economy growth, they do not care much about people opinion.
CCP know clearly what people think and what people want, yet there is hardly any communication.

Like I said, a large knife is used for a scalpel's job, it is bound to leave some scars.

I don't think "do not care much about people opinion" though. Communications get done all the time. While the Chinese government still isn't as good as Americans when it comes to information manipulation, they are getting better. You gotta to admit, Americans has A LOT practice on the subject considering every election is essentially a game of influencing the voters. Under the Chinese system, your main qualification for getting into the top office is getting the job done and done well. Communication gets secondary priority. It is a learning process.

I would say clear up the square is right thing.
Yet killing is not necessary. There could be better way of handling it
And the most important thing, many of those who give order to fire are still alive and in power.
Then hide it will be the best option..

Straight forward, no. What they should do is arrest the core group, build a rock solid case against them (which should be rather easy, given they received money, possibly instruction from intelligence agency) and let them know what the punishment for treason is. Hence why I said the Chinese government was rather inexperienced when dealing with riots. They should have tear gas, rubber bullets, pepper spray and pressure hose on standby.
 
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Well,yes,China had some rough years in the 19th century-early 20th,but it was always a force.My feeling is that it would be a force even if it would be a democracy,even more thanit is today.Truth be told ,it is China's destiny to be a superpower,i just think you would be more advanced without the CCP's leash.-and i mean it for those 1.3 billion.Come on...scavenging technology? Recycling Russkie engines ? You guys are better than that....imagine free trade,imagine China as a democracy....Hong Kong on stereoids !
HK was never a democracy, as matter of facts all Asia Four Tigers were not democracies during their economic miracle period. Even Japan was under a defacto one party rule during their height of economical expension.
 
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Come on mate I know you as a logical member here. Are you being sarcastic? There's no point of arguing over a topic like that.

He is a racist bigot. He was one of those who commented French troops will never have raped "black, ugly Africans".
 
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I won't argue democracy, but before I go on, HK is the way it is because hundreds of billions of cash flow in and out of HK from China and into China. That's why HK is rich. China doesn't have a relationship with anyone like that. Nor is anyone big enough to do that. HK wasn't all that in 97, for all those that remember.


Just one question, let's say China is democratic today, how would it be different in your view, in terms of foreign policy, since internal policies matter very little to you as a foreigner.

I think China's foreign policy won't be very different than what it is today but you'd have more allies as it won't be seen as a dictatorship.China's "needs" would still be the same.
 
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The Chinese did the right thing killing their "Gorbachev". If they did not, the West would tear China apart, like the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia with millions of victims.
Tough decision, but absolutely necessary.
 
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Today is the date on which the PLA marched into the square.
If you are interested in this matter, here is a very interesting article I have come across a few years back.

From the “Tiananmen Massacre” to the “Lhasa Protests”
By Xiaoping Li
Global Research, June 03, 2014
Global Research 10 April 2008
Region: Asia
Theme: Media Disinformation


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Tiananmen_tank.jpg

To mark the 25th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square protests, here is an article first published by Global Research April 10, 2008.

As I read and watched the media coverage of Tibetan “protesters” unleashing their “pent-up” anger against Han civilians in Lhasa on March 14, 2008, I sensed sympathetic sentiment from the reporters who portrayed violent acts as a “test” to “Beijing’s grip” on Tibet, while the victims were almost invisible in their coverage.

Unbalanced coverage, I thought. I looked online and found eyewitness accounts by Western tourists. They described “mobs” gone “crazy” in “riots”, and showed videos of civilians being chased, stoned and beaten. I felt sympathy to the victims.

Then, I came upon a video clip by CTV, a national television network in Canada, showing dark-faced Nepalese police beating Tibetan demonstrators with sticks while a Tibetan talked about Chinese suppressing protests. I felt such grafting a gross fabrication.

It didn’t appear to be a mistake as I found similar fabrications in other mainstream newspapers and TV programs in the West. I began to wonder: Is there a Western conspiracy to smear China? Or this is merely a reflection of the West’s sentiment towards the Tibet issue?

Either way, my trust in the Western media’s fairness and objectiveness began to waver. I wonder if I had been deceived by its report of the “Tiananmen Massacre”.

While a graduate student at the University of Toronto, I coordinated, immediately after the “Massacre”, the campaign to fax reports with pictures of the killed in Beijing to other parts of China, to tell people the truth.

My parents in China had warned me to not participate in any political movement since my father had been jailed for four years without a trial during the Cultural Revolution and everyone in my family had been implicated.

But I would not return to China. I had been driven out of China by the government’s declaration to the world that “homosexuals do not exist in China.”

For my fellow students “massacred” on Tiananmen Square, I must do my part to spread the Western media’s report of truth to other parts of China, safely from Canada.

One of our fax receivers faxed back to us to thank us for telling the truth. Then, they told us to stop faxing because guards had been posted by fax machines. The Chinese government maintained that no one died on Tiananmen Square.

I disbelieved it.

Now, after witnessing the distorted coverage of the Lhasa riots by the Western media, I wasn’t so sure if the “Massacre” that had been told to me was true.

I researched online and found a 20-segment video documentary in Chinese. It chronicled the Tiananmen student movement with interviews of the student leaders and other leading figures on Tiananmen Square. It seemed credible. It showed facts that I did not know before.

Some hunger strikers actually ate. I had seen a Chinese government’s video showing some hunger strikers including the student leader Wuer Kaixi eating in a restaurant, and I had dismissed it, partly because I hadn’t seen it in the Western media’s coverage.

There was no democracy on Tiananmen Square. Whoever controlled the loud speaker spoke on behalf of everyone. Factions of students fought to control the loud speaker. There were almost three to four attempted coups daily.

After the government made one after another concession to the students’ demands, on May 27, 1989, a coalition of the student leaders and supporting workers and intellectuals agreed that the students would leave Tiananmen Square on May 30 so that they could, as student leader Wang Dang had long advocated, continue to pursue grassroots democracy on campuses.

But radical student leaders changed their minds and decided to stay on the Square. One of them was Commander-in-Chief Chai Ling.

Chai Ling had confided to an American journalist: “what we are actually hoping for is bloodshed, for the moment when the government has no choice but to brazenly butcher the people… I can’t say all this to my fellow students. I can’t tell them straight out that we must use our blood and our lives to call on the people to rise up.”

“Are you going to stay in the Square yourself?” asked the interviewer.

“No, I won’t.”

“Why?”

“… I want to live.”

That explained why, in the wee hours of June 4th, when troops moved in from the outskirts of Beijing to Tiananmen, shooting at civilians blocking the roads along the way, Chai Ling insisted that students stay at the Square.

However, a popular Taiwan-born singer Hou Dejian who had been on hunger strike on the Square to show solidarity with the students since June 2, brokered a permission at about 4:30am through a military commander to allow students to leave peacefully.

“We filed out of the Square from the southeast corner. I was near the end of the line,” said Liang Xiaoyan, a lecturer of Beijing Foreign Studies University.

(The following day, I began coordinating the fax campaign to tell people in other parts of China about “Tiananmen Massacre”.)

“Some people said that two hundred died in the Square and other claimed that two thousand died. There were also stories of tanks running over students who were trying to leave.” Hou Dejian said in the interview, “I have to say that I did not see any of that. I don’t know where those people did. I myself was in the Square until six thirty in the morning.”

“I kept thinking,” he continued, “Are we going to use lies to attack an enemy who lies?”

Tiananmen Massacre never happened! My heart pounded. I have faxed lies to China. No, this can’t be true. This documentary, in Chinese, is probably made by the Chinese government.

At the end of the film, I saw the credits:

Produced and edited by

Richard Gordon

Carma Hinton

I felt that I would be dealing with my conscience for the rest of my life. Yes, many people died in Beijing on June 4th. A former classmate of mine saw a man falling off his bicycle after being shot when all of them were running away from Tiananmen Square. But there was no massacre on the Square.

I began to see the wisdom in my parents’ warning. True, in any political confrontation, the opposing sides would be tempted to use lies to win justice, and naïve participants would be caught in between. To blindly believe in either side would be dangerous.

I wondered what if the Western media had reported the Tiananmen student movement with a critical eye, instead of with romanticized sympathy. Perhaps the Chinese students on Tiananmen Square, who had admired the West’s democracy so much to have erected the “Liberty of Goddess” statue on Tiananmen Square, might have followed the more practical voices of Wang Dang and Hou Dejian to leave Tiananmen Square and continue their democratic movement at grassroots level on campuses. The bloodshed on the roads leading to Tiananmen Square on June 4th, perhaps, could have been avoided.

Western media has a powerful influence on those who long for democracy. Such was the case in Tiananmen in 1989. Mainstream media is powerful in influencing the underdogs in Western societies. Such was also the case in 1989. I, like many Chinese students in the West, felt a boost of self-worth when the media gave our demonstrations supporting students in Beijing affirmative coverage. Not that long ago, we had felt being looked down upon because of our smelly food, poor English and dirty Chinatowns. Suddenly, we were looked at with respect.

It is not too late for the media to report on Tibet issues with a critical eye, which will ultimately benefit the Tibetans, the Han Chinese, the Olympics and the world.

- See more at: From the “Tiananmen Massacre” to the “Lhasa Protests” | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

From the “Tiananmen Massacre” to the “Lhasa Protests” | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
 
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Not in the 20th century they weren't.Humanity's chance is the Western world,the other card is a return to backwardness.Let's be honest now,the West is our key to the stars,the East is our doom.If you have an IQ over 70 you'll see it my way.In the East lies oppression and copy cats( not a single innovation),represive regimes and all of humanity's evils....in the West,the future.



Romania is in eastern europe and i agree that Romania has no innovation as for not a single innovation from the "east" Russia is in the "east" and you are obviously directing your comment towards Russia; however, you are badly misinformed, Russia has contributed more to technology then you are aware of. Many of the things you use everyday are Russian innovations.
 
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Romania is in eastern europe and i agree that Romania has no innovation as for not a single innovation from the "east" Russia is in the "east" and you are obviously directing your comment towards Russia; however, you are badly misinformed, Russia has contributed more to technology then you are aware of. Many of the things you use everyday are Russian innovations.


I never said Romania contributed much nor will contribute much in the future as it's a small country not a power house.How far would this world go if today's Russia would be the global hegemon instead of the US ?
 
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I never said Romania contributed much nor will contribute much in the future as it's a small country not a power house.How far would this world go if today's Russia would be the global hegemon instead of the US ?


There would be no Operation Iraqi freedom and ISIS :lol:
 
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Oh yes, a few 10's of sample to prove 1.25 billions are racist.. Nice story.

Even if Indians are, that doesnt absolve you of being a disgusting racist bigot like you..


Calm down and take a breather,i don't care about your histery fits.The racist card is overdone these days,it's getting old and i don't personally care much for it.

You're throwing a temper tantrum because i've said French soldiers won't rape Africans,i remember now.You've moaned because a French member of the forum said "who would want to rape them anyway?".:rofl:........maybe you ? seeing as you're so butthurt about it.o_O:what:


hahaha,you're a liar to,i found that thread,nobody called them ugly or other such remarks

UN aid worker suspended for leaking report on child abuse by French troops | Page 2
 
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