70 years house ownership recently expires for some old houses in Shanghai, houses will be demolished

[Hamartia Antidote]

China's local governments must prevent, defuse debt risks, Economic Daily says

China's local governments must pay attention to high levels of debt to prevent and defuse the risk of default and contagion, state media Economic Daily said in a commentary on Thursday, as concerns over local debts mount.

www.reuters.com

Why China Doesn’t Have a Property Tax

Local governments are sinking further into debt, but after years of talk, officials have yet to introduce a real estate tax.

www.nytimes.com

In China, where the government owns the land, localities almost never tax homeowners to support services like schools. Cities rely instead on selling long-term leases to real estate developers. Revenue from these land sales has plunged in the past year.

This is why cities are forever on crazy building sprees. It is what pays for services.

 

[beijingwalker]

So If I have a nice waterfront home nobody is going to kick me out after 70 years and send me to some new development in the middle of nowhere in exchange for my primo spot.

If anything the Chinese are at the mercy of the whims of their local government.

You still believe that after 70 years living in in house you will be kicked out by the government? just so so dumb, read the article again, and in China if you are relocated, the value of the new house should be the more or at leas the same as your old house, otherwise the owner of the old house will be compensated with extra houses or cash of the same value, that's why people in China dream about one day their houses will be demolished and they are relocated, cause that will be a once in a life time to rip off the government, do you know what "nail houses" mean? You still live in your delusion about China, if you really like to know about China, pay a visit, that will open your delusional mind.

Why China Doesn’t Have a Property Tax

Local governments are sinking further into debt, but after years of talk, officials have yet to introduce a real estate tax.

www.nytimes.com

This is why cities are forever on crazy building sprees. It is what pays for services.

This is exactly what happens to US suburbs, and US cities are all dead. It's ok for you to enjoy paying that rip off property tax in US, and we are ok with not paying it.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

You still believe that after 70 years living in in house you will be kicked out by the government?

If the local government determines your home is not in acceptable condition and needs to be torn down then yes you are going to get kicked out whether you like it or not.

Your only choices is to wait for the replacement building to be put up or accept a unit of equal value in some other area of town (hopefully that is in just as nice a location) or maybe cash.

hat's why people in China dream about one day their houses will be demolished and they are relocated,

I would assume people picked the building they are living in because it is in the best location they can afford. For instance maybe next to a train station or in the center of town.

So now that location is being torn down and people may have to move to somewhere else...that is a great dream for Chinese people?

his is exactly what happens to US suburbs, and US cities are all dead. It's ok for you to enjoy paying that rip off property tax in US, and we are ok with not paying it.

Well if that 70 year old building is torn down and people can move into the new one for free then somebody is footing the construction bill...apparently not the previous tenants. Or is the new building going to be 25% larger so the 25% new tenants can foot the entire bill.

 

[beijingwalker]

If the local government determines your home is not in acceptable condition and needs to be torn down then yes you are going to get kicked out whether you like it or not.

Why are you so diehard delusional, is this house in " acceptable condition"?

Chinese Social media mixed response on a "nail house" which stops $5.5 Bln government major project

Social media mixed response on one "nail house" which stops $5.5 Bln government major project 江苏最牛钉子户，扬言没有两亿绝不搬走，逼停国家380亿高铁项目 A "nail house" refuses to move resulting in the halt of the $5.5 Bln government major project, Huzhou to Shanghai high speed railway construction. The nail house...

pdf.defence.pk

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Why are you so diehard delusional, is this house in " acceptable condition"?

Chinese Social media mixed response on a "nail house" which stops $5.5 Bln government major project

Social media mixed response on one "nail house" which stops $5.5 Bln government major project 江苏最牛钉子户，扬言没有两亿绝不搬走，逼停国家380亿高铁项目 A "nail house" refuses to move resulting in the halt of the $5.5 Bln government major project, Huzhou to Shanghai high speed railway construction. The nail house...

pdf.defence.pk

WTF? You are now contradicting your own OP

70 years house ownership recently expires for some old houses in Shanghai, houses will be demolished

Houses sold in China can only have an ownership of 70 years, it's because the government believes houses are only safe to live in for about 70 years, after that time the safety of the houses have to be reassessed or demolished.

I guess the OP is avoiding mentioning a 3rd scenario.

 

[beijingwalker]

WTF? You are now contradicting your own OP


I guess the OP is avoiding mentioning a 3rd scenario.

How do you know these nail houses have reached their 70 years expiration date? do you even know what you are talking about?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

How do you know these nail houses have reached their 70 years expiration date? do you even know what you are talking about?

LOL! Now you are moving the goal posts again.

I never mentioned anything about houses that aren't 70 years old. Why are you claiming i have? Do you even know what you are talking about?

 

[beijingwalker]

LOL! Now you are moving the goal posts.

I never mentioned anything about houses that aren't 70 years old. Why are you claiming i have?

What? stop lying, I posted this nailhouse and you brought up that 70 years expiration law which has nothing to do with this nail house

Chinese Social media mixed response on a "nail house" which stops $5.5 Bln government major project

Social media mixed response on one "nail house" which stops $5.5 Bln government major project 江苏最牛钉子户，扬言没有两亿绝不搬走，逼停国家380亿高铁项目 A "nail house" refuses to move resulting in the halt of the $5.5 Bln government major project, Huzhou to Shanghai high speed railway construction. The nail house...

pdf.defence.pk

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

What? stop lying, I posted this nailhouse and you brought up that 70 years expiration law which has nothing to do with this nail house

Chinese Social media mixed response on a "nail house" which stops $5.5 Bln government major project

Social media mixed response on one "nail house" which stops $5.5 Bln government major project 江苏最牛钉子户，扬言没有两亿绝不搬走，逼停国家380亿高铁项目 A "nail house" refuses to move resulting in the halt of the $5.5 Bln government major project, Huzhou to Shanghai high speed railway construction. The nail house...

pdf.defence.pk

LOL! You brought up a nail house in a thread qbout 70 year old expirations.

I think you are schizophrenic

 

[beijingwalker]

LOL! You brought up a nail house in a thread qbout 70 year old expirations.

I think you are schizophrenic

Why you lie through your teeth? I brought the nailhouse but not for the 70 years expiry issue, and you brought it up to counter my nailhouse post, would you stop lying please?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Why you lie through your teeth? I brought the nailhouse but not for the 70 years expiry issue, and you brought it up to counter my nailhouse post, would you stop lying please?

LOL!!

 

[Vikramaditya-I]

It is relevant, i am trying to explain why we don't have land taxes mate. We used to have farm tax, meaning all farmers had to pay taxes with the produce of their land, it was scrapped off 10 years ago. Now farmers staying in villages virtually pay nothing except electric and water bill. However, i am a proponent of such tax in urban areas, at least for people owning more than 2 properties.

Again, property taxes are not unaffordable by any stretch. What I said is the Chinese having more than one house is nothing but your real estate bubble. You are buying up properties in hopes of prices going up. That's the reason the Chinese have more houses/flats than required. Now, you come up with stuff like tax, China has more income than India, stronk et al. Also, not taxing farm income is not unique to China, you had a tax on farm income up until 10 years ago that's strange.

 

[Mista]

Why China Doesn’t Have a Property Tax

Local governments are sinking further into debt, but after years of talk, officials have yet to introduce a real estate tax.

www.nytimes.com

This is why cities are forever on crazy building sprees. It is what pays for services.

It's the HK model; to raise revenue via land sales and not through taxes. Many of their local governments have a huge share of revenue coming from land sales to fund their operations and development, so they have vested interests in keeping land prices high. By promising a shiny new development nearby (even though it doesn't make ROI sense), they can sell land at a greater premium.

This is why housing affordability is so bad in HK and the big cities in mainland China. Housing affordability is like 10x worse than in Singapore, a dense city-state:

In Singapore, the annual median household income can buy you around 21.95 sqm of housing area (HDB).

In HK, the annual median household income can buy you around 1.94 sqm of housing area.

In Beijing, the annual median household income can buy you around 2.69 sqm of housing area.

In Shenzhen, the annual median household income can buy you around 1.77 sqm of housing area.

People are complaining about housing affordability everywhere in Singapore, and yet in Chinese first-tier cities housing affordability is like 10x worse. It's pretty obvious the Chinese real estate is in a huge bubble. You know it's a huge social issue when affordability is 10x worse than densely populated Singapore, and you can see why their fertility rate is only ~0.8 in the cities.

It's not the lack of land per se. Both the government and existing homeowners have vested interests in keep home prices high, but it screws their young people in the process. Their youths are having it rough. Sky-high property prices, unemployment/underemployment, ungodly working hours. That's why there's a growing number of Chinese youths who would rather 'tang ping'; they realized that they have it much easier by not conforming to societal expectations, like not buying a property, not getting married, not having kids, not participating in the rat race. I can see merits in their argument.

China's central government has been trying to pivot away from this model because they know it's not sustainable. It hurts their domestic consumption which impedes long-term economic growth and creates a host of social issues. Their total population is falling as well, although their urban population can still grow for another decade or two.

But a big reform will not be easy for the finances of the local governments. Just look what has happened. The idea of an annual property tax has been floating for many years now, but it hasn't been implemented on a large scale. And from the people's POV, I've already paid my due 'taxes' with high property prices and monthly mortgage loans, and now you want to levy an annual property tax on top of high property prices?

At the end of the day, the money have to come from somewhere.

 

[beijingwalker]

It's the HK model; to raise revenue via land sales and not through taxes. Many of their local governments have a huge share of revenue coming from land sales to fund their operations and development, so they have vested interests in keeping land prices high. By promising a shiny new development nearby (even though it doesn't make ROI sense), they can sell land at a greater premium.

This is why housing affordability is so bad in HK and the big cities in mainland China. Housing affordability is like 10x worse than in Singapore, a dense city-state:



It's not the lack of land per se. Both the government and existing homeowners have vested interests in keep home prices high, but it screws their young people in the process. Their youths are having it rough. Sky-high property prices, unemployment/underemployment, ungodly working hours. That's why there's a growing number of Chinese youths who would rather 'tang ping'; they realized that they have it much easier by not conforming to societal expectations, like not buying a property, not getting married, not having kids, not participating in the rat race. I can see merits in their argument.

China's central government has been trying to pivot away from this model because they know it's not sustainable. It hurts their domestic consumption which impedes long-term economic growth and creates a host of social issues. Their total population is falling as well, although their urban population can still grow for another decade or two.

But a big reform will not be easy for the finances of the local governments. Just look what has happened. The idea of an annual property tax has been floating for many years now, but it hasn't been implemented on a large scale. And from the people's POV, I've already paid my due 'taxes' with high property prices and monthly mortgage loans, and now you want to levy an annual property tax on top of high property prices?

At the end of the day, the money have to come from somewhere.

Not even close to US.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

At the end of the day, the money have to come from somewhere.

That's what I was saying. If after 70 years a building is eligible to be demolished...but the people in it apparently will be compensated for current value ...somebody has to pay for the construction of the new building. Does the city ultimately foot the construction bill since the current owners are off the hook. If so the more buildings they put up the greater the eventual liability.