Three-Year-Old Uyghur Boy Dies in Thai Detention

[T-123456]

I think you need to read more before commet one thing
I have heard two side of the story,and the situation in Xinjiang is very complex,the Han Chinese said they are victims,they are partly right,because you know what happened in 7,5,2009,how many Han Chinese died in Urumqi that day?Most of them are just workers,teachers,merchants and students.When they saw this,they became very angry,so you see that video,it's a reaction,I don't think it's a right thing to do,and the reaction was stoped by the government
The Uyghurs also said they are victims,they are also partly right,the government limition of religious freedom,and many Uyghur youth find they face difficulties in Chinese cities,they live in their own ghettos,the mainstream people don't want to live with them,then just like many ghettos,high crime rate caused more distrust between the peoples

My question is;what happened to those idiots who killed the little kid?
Why cant those 300 Uyghurs just leave Thailand for Turkiye?
Isnt it a win win situation,300 ''terrorists'' gone?
You talk about getto's,i know how getto's are formed,when you as a government or society do not include them,those people tend to distance themselves from that society and form their own closed society,its logic.
What happened in to the Han in 2009 was terrible and done by Islamist terrorists but you cant blame the whole population for that,i have seen what the Han did to the innocent Uyghurs afterwards.
That was random slaughter.
Im against Islamists of all races,so dont use that against me,we care for our kin and we feel that they are not treated like equals,why else would they want to leave?
The Chinese on this forum never answer any questions asked about such incidents(you are the first one),they only talk about how great their country is doing and how peaceful they are,im guessing they are paid by your government.
So how do you expect us to react in a positive way to Chinese members?

cornered how? We execute the most amount of criminals every year by a mile. You are judging a country by what? A criminal's actions?

What do you think the reaction is.

I can't find this particular incident, but I did find an incident of murdering innocent by standers by 3 han Chinese and they were all handed the death sentence, so maybe you want to wait before making crazy assumptions, like China is lawless, which is weird cause you guys all call China a police state.

Who is you guys?
That incident you were talking about was some years ago,i tagged Chinese dragon and Tiger,waited for days but no answer,later another incident happened again the same silence,so dont come with police state or lawless bs.
I dont criticise people or nations for no reason,when asked a question,at least have the civility to answer.

 

[sahaliyan]

My question is;what happened to those idiots who killed the little kid?
Why cant those 300 Uyghurs just leave Thailand for Turkiye?
Isnt it a win win situation,300 ''terrorists'' gone?
You talk about getto's,i know how getto's are formed,when you as a government or society do not include them,those people tend to distance themselves from that society and form their own closed society,its logic.
What happened in to the Han in 2009 was terrible and done by Islamist terrorists but you cant blame the whole population for that,i have seen what the Han did to the innocent Uyghurs afterwards.
That was random slaughter.
Im against Islamists of all races,so dont use that against me,we care for kin and we feel that they are not treated like equals,why else would they want to leave?
The Chinese on this forum never answer any questions asked about such incidents(you are the first one),they only talk about how great their country is doing and how peaceful they are,im guessing they are paid by your government.
So how do you expect us to react in a positive way to Chinese members?

I don't know how those people ended,but I already said this action is wrong,and as I said,the reaction stopped by the government,otherwise the situation will became another Bosnia,no one want that,people will lose their sense in those times,you can see what many Pakistani members in this forum reaction to Peshawar massacre,they talk bad to all Afghans,even though terrorists are just minority among the Afghans,but people see those were did by Afghan terrorists,and they think all Afghans are bad,it's a common thing in every societies.But for a government,you should keep quite and treat all your citizens equally.I criticized the government many times,however they stopped the Han reaction is a right thing
As for the Chinese members here,maybe they are too nationalistic ,maybe because my background(I'm an ethnic Manchu),so I can view things from different side,you know it's not an easy thing for many people.Just like when I criticized CCP's Tibetan policy,they also attacked me,because people usually think in their own side

 

[Genesis]

That incident you were talking about was some years ago,i tagged Chinese dragon and Tiger,waited for days but no answer,later another incident happened again the same silence,so dont come with police state or lawless bs.
I dont criticise people or nations for no reason,when asked a question,at least have the civility to answer.

So just because of no answer, the punishment suddenly evaporated?

As to answer, this is a public forum, I know this may shock you, but none of us are getting paid to post, so we can answer or not. If we were paid, the Chinese government wouldn't hire me, as they can find a cheaper moron easily.



To the ghetto thing, I must comment, it's different in China due to our communist past. All our people, especially rural people have land or an apartment.

The Uygurs are living in either apartments or to be bulldozed communities that are terrible condition. Though the latter happens to Han Chinese who feels they don't want to move or are getting enough too.

The sad fact is it maybe too late for the last generation to do anything about it, that's terrible to say, but it is what it is. Their children now have a Chinese education, have the same opportunities, actually more, to go into a post secondary education and government posts or the military.

They will pull their families out of poverty and into lower middle class, or not.

We can only help those who can help themselves at this point, we don't have enough to help those who can't.



Lastly, on the one hand you are against Islamists, but on the other hand you generalize a whole nation base on the actions of a few Chinese criminals.


P.S. you know why we don't like to get into these discussions, it's because of religion, we know how sensitive it can be and we generally avoid it. We are atheists, there's not much positives we can say about that, so better to just shut up about it.

 

[T-123456]

I don't know how those people ended,but I already said this action is wrong,and as I said,the reaction stopped by the government,otherwise the situation will became another Bosnia,no one want that,people will lose their sense in those times,you can see what many Pakistani members in this forum reaction to Peshawar massacre,they talk bad to all Afghans,even though terrorists are just minority among the Afghans,but people see those were did by Afghan terrorists,and they think all Afghans are bad,it's a common thing in every societies.But for a government,you should keep quite and treat all your citizens equally.I criticized the government many times,however they stopped the Han reaction is a right thing
As for the Chinese members here,maybe they are too nationalistic ,maybe because my background(I'm an ethnic Manchu),so I can view things from different side,you know it's not an easy thing for many people.Just like when I criticized CCP's Tibetan policy,they also attacked me,because people usually think in their own side

I have read some of your posts before and wondered,how come he posts like that as a Chinese member on PDF,now i understand.
Many countries have problems with minorities,that is not the problem but butchering innocent people like the ISIS does ,done by common people and no reaction from the Chinese members here on such events makes people think that they agree with such scum.
Some Chinese suicide trolls with fake accounts come here to troll and disappear
That pisses many people off and creates animosity against China,your pr department really svcks.
The only members unconditionally supporting China are Pakistani's,the rest doesnt like the Chinese,what do you think why thats the case?

P.S. you know why we don't like to get into these discussions, it's because of religion, we know how sensitive it can be and we generally avoid it. We are atheists, there's not much positives we can say about that, so better to just shut up about it.

That is a lame excuse,i told you we dont care about the religion part,it was never about religion.
Its ok i got my answers,no need for further discussions.

 

[sahaliyan]

I have read some of your posts before and wondered,how come he posts like that as a Chinese member on PDF,now i understand.
Many countries have problems with minorities,that is not the problem but butchering innocent people like the ISIS does ,done by common people and no reaction from the Chinese members here on such events makes people think that they agree with such scum.
Some Chinese suicide trolls with fake accounts come here to troll and disappear
That pisses many people off and creates animosity against China,your pr department really svcks.
The only members unconditionally supporting China are Pakistani's,the rest doesnt like the Chinese,what do you think why thats the case?

I think the Egyptian members here generally have positive feeling to China?And many Iranian members also support China,Indian members usually dislike China but it's understandable,and it seems Russian members in this forum are not against China,however I should point out,the Russian members in this forum don't represent the general Russian population,you want to know the general Russian view you better go to VK.And I think most Bangladeshi members also support China

 

[Genesis]

That is a lame excuse,i told you we dont care about the religion part,it was never about religion.
Its ok i got my answers,no need for further discussions.

Actually it is about religion, cultural in general, it's not about race. We don't care so much about that, there are many that are succeeding in fields where you think being a visible minority would be a disadvantage.

There are top models and movie stars that are from the region, there are political and financial leaders that are also from the region.

There are a large middle class that are from the region, the difference is that they speak Chinese, but most important, they are just like us.

I don't mean becoming Chinese, we are not that Chinese anymore either, becoming what a modern person is suppose to be, you are in the Netherlands, you should know what that means and doesn't mean.


You think we are discriminating against people based on race and color, but in effect we are doing so because of the difference in way of life. Nobody ever says well these people are not smart enough or are not good people, the general tone is that these people live different than us, would they fit in and that they have different dress and manners than us, I don't know if I'll manage.

So yea, it is about culture and religion in general, we just don't understand why one can place so much importance in something like that, anymore.

 

[T-123456]

I think the Egyptian members here generally have positive feeling to China?And many Iranian members also support China,Indian members usually dislike China but it's understandable,and it seems Russian members in this forum are not against China,however I should point out,the Russian members in this forum don't represent the general Russian population,you want to know the general Russian view you better go to VK.And I think most Bangladeshi members also support China

I think you are ok so i wont be refuting your statement.

Actually it is about religion, cultural in general, it's not about race. We don't care so much about that, there are many that are succeeding in fields where you think being a visible minority would be a disadvantage.

There are top models and movie stars that are from the region, there are political and financial leaders that are also from the region.

There are a large middle class that are from the region, the difference is that they speak Chinese, but most important, they are just like us.

I don't mean becoming Chinese, we are not that Chinese anymore either, becoming what a modern person is suppose to be, you are in the Netherlands, you should know what that means and doesn't mean.


You think we are discriminating against people based on race and color, but in effect we are doing so because of the difference in way of life. Nobody ever says well these people are not smart enough or are not good people, the general tone is that these people live different than us, would they fit in and that they have different dress and manners than us, I don't know if I'll manage.

So yea, it is about culture and religion in general, we just don't understand why one can place so much importance in something like that, anymore.

Maybe because of the isolation from society,religious nutjobs have a free hand to recrute them,they give them the feeling of belonging to something big?
Dont forget,its always the outcasts that are the most radical nutcases.

 

[AgentOrange]

I don't see what the problem is. If these people want to leave China and have already left China, they should be allowed to go wherever they want. In fact, China should buy one way tickets for all Uighurs who want to leave China.

The ones that refuse to integrate into Chinese society contribute little to nothing to China's development anyways. There are many instances of Uighurs who do well in China. You see them as television hosts, PLA officers and soldiers, police officers, and businessmen etc. But they are usually more secular and haven't been brainwashed by false propaganda into believing that Xinjiang = "Turkestan" (a fictitious entity with no hope of statehood).

At any rate, if there was a mass exodus of Uighurs from Xinjiang to Turkey, it would kill two birds with one stone. Less mouths for China to feed and less support for illegal Uighur separatist and terrorist activities.

I see everyone blaming China but how eager is Turkey to receive their homeless "brothers"? Don't project your own feelings of guilt and inadequacy onto China. It takes two to tango as they say.

 

[Genesis]

Maybe because of the isolation from society,religious nutjobs have a free hand to recrute them,they give them the feeling of belonging to something big?
Dont forget,its always the outcasts that are the most radical nutcases.

True, but there's only so much we can do for a multitude of reasons. First, you said it's not about religion, but you know why the government does this to religious institutions? First they don't trust them, second, but more importantly, Chinese people in general don't. We don't see this as anything. There could be protests for a wide variety of things, but religious rights will never be one of them.

The Uygur populous, not all of them, a lot of them, still places religion to be a central part of their life, but that is changing in the next generation.

There's really not too much more we can do, we are already making Xinjiang one of the, if not the fastest growing region in China, but they started from too low a point.

Changing polices is not an option, because we will never allow the spread of backwardness of anyone, including Han Chinese, the only reason that's not talked about anymore is because we did the harsh treatment of Han Chinese during our cultural revolution and prior periods, and back then Xinjiang and Tibet, not only had some autonomy but also because it is too far and not enough Han people lived there.

Today, you ask why we don't allow these guys to go to Turkey? That's the same as saying we are wrong, which nobody in China thinks it is, not just Han Chinese, but most of the Ethnic minorities, including many Uygurs that are already part of society.



All these things leads to tension, and thus riots that resulted in the killing of people from both sides, so obviously there would be bad blood.


Now do you have a better way of handling this issue. Or you can give an example of someone else better handling this issue. Please only use countries of similar development, cause a developed country can obviously do more than we could.

 

[sahaliyan]

Maybe because of the isolation from society,religious nutjobs have a free hand to recrute them,they give them the feeling of belonging to something big?
Dont forget,its always the outcasts that are the most radical nutcases.

A bit like the muslim immigrants in Europe,a lot of them became radicals.But things are more serious in Xinjiang,since most European muslims live in cities(usually in gettos),but most Uygurs still live in rural area,they don't get the benefit from economic development,some criminal gangs use those Uyghur peasants as drug traffickers and thieves,that gave the Uyghurs bad reputation.You know how the July 5 incident happened?Because in June 2009,there were rumors,the Uyghurs raped the Han female workers in Shaoguan,Guangdong，even the government denied this rumor,the Han workers still didn't believe,then a clash happened in Shaoguan,then the Uyghurs in Urumqi heared this,then we know what happened,you can see how the distrust between the peoples,and if the Uyghurs don't have bad reputations,the people will believe the government statement.To rebuild the trust between the peoples is very important in our times,otherwise,the similar incidents may be happened in future again

 

[AgentOrange]

A bit like the muslim immigrants in Europe,a lot of them became radicals.But things are more serious in Xinjiang,since most European muslims live in cities(usually in gettos),but most Uygurs still live in rural area,they don't get the benefit from economic development,some criminal gangs use those Uyghur peasants as drug traffickers and thieves,that gave the Uyghurs bad reputation.You know how the July 5 incident happened?Because in June 2009,there were rumors,the Uyghurs raped the Han female workers in Shaoguan,Guangdong，even the government denied this rumor,the Han workers still didn't believe,then a clash happened in Shaoguan,then the Uyghurs in Urumqi heared this,then we know what happened,you can see how the distrust between the peoples,and if the Uyghurs don't have bad reputations,the people will believe the government statement.To rebuild the trust between the peoples is very important in our times,otherwise,the similar incidents may be happened in future again

A very objective take on things. I'd also like to add that the Han factory workers who attacked their Uyghur coworkes based on a lie weren't exactly well educated. People who are less educated tend be more easily swayed by hearsay and rumors and this holds true for any society, I think. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, a lot of the Uyghur rioters (once news of the Uyghur factory murders had spread to Xinjiang) were also poorly educated and prone to violence. So they got revenge by indiscriminately attacking any Han Chinese they saw including burning down a building with 5 young Han girls inside. And then once this started happening, Han lynch mobs started forming and arming themselves. And so on and so forth resulting in more bad blood on both sides. Truly a senseless and tragic event.

Edit: regarding the part you mentioned about a clash happening even after the government denied the rape rumor, I think shortly after the Xinjiang riots, the government made the penalties for rumor mongering much more severe. The government even had to cut off all internet to Xinjiang for 10 months to stop the spread of more disinformation.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

That poor kid suffering for that long RIP.

 

[T-123456]

First, you said it's not about religion

I told you,i dont care about their religion.

Now do you have a better way of handling this issue. Or you can give an example of someone else better handling this issue. Please only use countries of similar development, cause a developed country can obviously do more than we could.

Now,that is a reaction i would expect from you.
I think your problem is neglect,your government caused the infiltration of religious extremists into the Uyghur areas by neglecting them,this is not something that started out of nothing,maybe your government didnt have the means to develope the region before and prioritised other regions first and not see the problems coming.
The only way you can tackle this is by investment in development of education(compulsory untill 16),economy(micro and macro,create jobs)infrastructure and the most important part is including them accepting as equal,not just by the government but by the rest of the population.
Ban Burqa's!
Try to take away the way the rest of China is viewing them through the state TV,commercial channels,social media,newspapers,use the Uyghur actors,singers,all the famous ones.
Some positive news about the Uyghurs always changes views.
Thats all i got.

 

[AgentOrange]

I told you,i dont care about their religion.

Now,that is a reaction i would expect from you.
I think your problem is neglect,your government caused the infiltration of religious extremists into the Uyghur areas by neglecting them,this is not something that started out of nothing,maybe your government didnt have the means to develope the region before and prioritised other regions first and not see the problems coming.
The only way you can tackle this is by investment in development of education(compulsory untill 16),economy(micro and macro,create jobs)infrastructure and the most important part is including them accepting as equal,not just by the government but by the rest of the population.
Ban Burqa's!
Try to take away the way the rest of China is viewing them through the state TV,commercial channels,social media,newspapers,use the Uyghur actors,singers,all the famous ones.
Some positive news about the Uyghurs always changes views.
Thats all i got.

China *is* trying to invest more. I'm ethnic Chinese and I was born in Beijing though I'm a Canadian citizen now. And most Chinese people I've met inside and outside of China have a positive or neutral view of Uighurs. China has been pumping money into Xinjiang but like in other areas of China, there is inevitably corruption. China is a developing country and corruption is unavoidable.

But at the same time, because the trickle down from government investment is uneven, it doesn't automatically equate to a policy of discrimination against Uyghurs. There are individual cases of discrimination, unfortunately. No use hiding the ugly side of human nature. But as a government policy? No way. In fact, shortly after the Xinjiang riots were over, the Chinese government actually kept replaying stories about how some Uyghurs went to the aid of their Han neighbors and hid them from rampaging Uyghur mobs. Also, never before have there been so many Uyghurs on TV and in government positions including the police and military. Furthermore, there have been a lot of recent documentaries about Xinjiang and the people of Xinjiang from official to travel and cuisine, etc.

 

[Genesis]

I told you,i dont care about their religion.

But that is part of the problem.

Now,that is a reaction i would expect from you.
I think your problem is neglect,your government caused the infiltration of religious extremists into the Uyghur areas by neglecting them,this is not something that started out of nothing,maybe your government didnt have the means to develope the region before and prioritised other regions first and not see the problems coming.
The only way you can tackle this is by investment in development of education(compulsory untill 16),economy(micro and macro,create jobs)infrastructure and the most important part is including them accepting as equal,not just by the government but by the rest of the population.
Ban Burqa's!
Try to take away the way the rest of China is viewing them through the state TV,commercial channels,social media,newspapers,use the Uyghur actors,singers,all the famous ones.
Some positive news about the Uyghurs always changes views.
Thats all i got.

There's quite a few education policies that are there for minorities, for sometime now, and is one of the reasons I have for optimism.

Jobs are being created, but again, due to language, culture, and just generally background and common ground, a lot of companies still prefer Han Chinese. Anti discrimination laws simply doesn't exist, for anyone, not even Han Chinese.

The population will need time, we can't just force people to change their views, but with more minorities in TV, Movies, and magazines and websites, it helps.

We are banning Burqa, but apparently that's a human rights violation. Also with TV shows, we had a few, but apparently they were propaganda films of a false story told to children(it's a cartoon, pretty well made). So we can't win here. Part of what made you angry in the first place, maybe the exact thing you wanted, due to the reporting in the West.


All in all, these issues take time, effort, and did I mention time. Opinions wasn't changed in a day, Uygur opinion will take shorter time to change than China's poor, backwards, and weak image, if that's a consolation prize for you.