Thousands of Hong Kong protesters sing Star Spangled Banner, wave American flags

[FairAndUnbiased]

Well I see the trend. It's Hong Kong and Taiwan protesting tooth and nail not to merge with CCP led China. They are your people, aren't they? Unfortunately, us outsiders have not much information about inner happenings of China for your wantonly alienating yourself from global popular social media and your extensive use of Chinese language rather than English.

But I'll tell you one thing though.If tomorrow US allows another country to be part of it, they'll jump at the opportunity. Why not ask Hong kongese if they want to be with US, you'll get the answer.

They can be part of the US, but not an inch of land goes along with them. There is actually a petition in UK parliament right now to give Hong Kongers UK citizenship. Hopefully it passes and all rioters are allowed to leave.

 

[nang2]

Well I see the trend. It's Hong Kong and Taiwan protesting tooth and nail not to merge with CCP led China. They are your people, aren't they? Unfortunately, us outsiders have not much information about inner happenings of China for your wantonly alienating yourself from global popular social media and your extensive use of Chinese language rather than English.

But I'll tell you one thing though.If tomorrow US allows another country to be part of it, they'll jump at the opportunity. Why not ask Hong kongese if they want to be with US, you'll get the answer.

PS: You cannot predict future either way based on the trend though.

Hehe, how naive are you? You think country forming is such a trivial matter? Why not ask Kashmiris if they want to be with India, you'll get the answer.

 

[nang2]

See this the difference between democracy and CCP. Rulers are not for the people, by the people, of the people.

Neither is democracy. Too many people are ill educated about democracy, including most westerners. Somehow it becomes the panacea for all social ills. The other day, I saw an article from a journalist in a former Soviet bloc that exclaims that democracy will protect the rights of minorities. That is just fundamentally false.

Democracy is never about "for the people, by the people, of the people". It is all about "for the majority, by the majority, of the majority". Democracy can justify crushing the rights of minority as long as it is sanctioned by the majority. That is the reason why former Soviet bloc countries boasted about democracy during the cold war. Just look at their country names. How many of them say "democratic". During the cold war, what the west bloc propaganda focused on was NOT democracy, but liberty. Now, somehow people think they will get liberty through democracy. I am sorry to tell you. Democracy and liberty are not compatible with each other. So, good luck with that.

No, I know that. But that is not what we are discussing. We are talking whether democracy is better than one that is CCP running in China.

Your Indian example is invalid because our constitution doesn't allow for partition or separation. A better example be UK allowing referendum for Scotland.

Then your suggestion is also invalid because China constitution doesn't allow for partition, either. Why did you waste your mental energy toying with such ideas?

 

[nang2]

The difference is Indian constitution is represented by the will of the people and was written by people who got franchised by the people. But with China, where is the will of the people but for CCP.

Bullshit. CCP wouldn't get the power without the support from the people. Please, don't glorify your own country and spread falsehood about other countries with such an ease. It is indecent.

 

[Protest_again]

Bullshit. CCP wouldn't get the power without the support from the people. Please, don't glorify your own country and spread falsehood about other countries with such an ease. It is indecent.

Ok. Lets leave it at that. I shouldn't have said that without knowing how your constitution is molded. But I think we both wasted enough bandwidth today when we clearly are set in our own ways.

 

[maximuswarrior]

China needs to engineer a Charlottesville here. Just end the note on fine and bad people on both sides.

 

[GeHAC]

Only one word to describe: pathetic

 

[rott]

With a few million bucks I can make them sing Chinese national anthem and wave Chinese flag in the great USA.
I don't see what's the point in here.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Just one question. Why more than 90% mainland Chinese support Chinese government on this issue? Including those who live abroad. The CCP never governed HK people for one day yet these traitors believe they know CCP more than mainland Chinese. Who are brainwashed? We all know in Hongkong western countries have more influence than mainland government. Hongkong as a region was returned to China 22 years ago. But HK people were not. They even refused to add patriotic courses to their kids' textbook

Lol China's system doesn't really allows dissent and we all know that. In fact the CCP doesn't even hides it and openly penalize or delete any comments they deem harmful to the party. So how can you know what 99% of Chinese people(those who even have an idea of what is happening in Hong Kong, since the CCP controls the entire media system in China and only lets out what they deem necessary/benefitial to the party ) think?
Well, that's the thing with democracy as well, the people are free to openly say what they are against or not without fear of being persecuted or imprison/dissapeared for that.etc
Hong Kong has already gotten used to their free market democratic system and I'm sure the vast majority doesn't want to lose that , reason they are so distrustful of the Chinese government given that China has the opposite of Hong Kong's system. The thing is, once a country is fully developed and advanced to a certain level, then the people tend to focus less on material things and more on their personal freedom/lifestyle etc. So Hong Kong and Taiwan having tasted the fruits of a free democratic system (and they do travel to China to see a different system) wouldn't want to change their system for a long time to come.

Matter of fact, China had experienced free and democratic system. From 1912-1927, China was a free and democratic country. Free media, free speech, free organizations and everything(The CCP was born in 1921). And the result was unfortunately total mess. No progress was made during this 15 years. China was still a backward country. And 10 years later, Japanese seized this opportunity to invade China.

You can't compare the world centuries ago to today's modern world, it's a totally different era we live in today. So comparing China's system during the first world war to justify today's system isn't right. Using your logic we can also say China's dictatorial emperor is GOD'S system is what led China to collapse and decay as well , no? And let to turmoil (and subsequent invasions) throughout the country. So I don't think using past century system to justify current system is right.

Two reasons:1, US propaganda machines work really efficient. 2, Western countries were overwhelmingly advanced than China for last several centries. Which gives these people an illusion that western ideology is superior than current China's(Which was proven to be wrong by China's recent achievement

You are also mixing things up. Okay, China has been under CCP for over 60 years now. Why is it that until chairman MAO(CCP founder) died China was considered the sick man of Asia throughout his rule and among the poorest( of not the poorest, since even North Korea was wealthier)? So would you also blame that on the CCP or something else ?
Is it not when the CCP(more like pragmatic Deng) ditch Mao's red totalitarian ideological system and open up to the West(which many on the CCP were keenly against) and world that China started taking off? So I think it's instead the opposite you should be saying.

Moreover , many of you forget that China should be at least at South Korea's level of development of not for all the time wasted by CCP being closed off to the world and using a rigid Soviet style communist ideological closed system . Since the Chinese have a high IQ, are generally entrepreneurial, hard working and shrewd businessmen. Just look at all the successful Chinese origin countries Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore etc and all the super wealthy ethnic Chinese people(who mostly fled the closed communist China in the 50-70s) make up the vast majority of wealth in south East Asia countries despite all the odds and resentment against them . So under even a neutral /not too bad system of leadership China should have been a far more developed country than it is today. At present the CCP is merely catching up to the position they should have long been in to be honest.

 

[S10]

Hint: When attempting to get concessions from Beijing, don't wave foreign flags and call for US intervention.

 

[Nein]

Better off waving your own flag. I wont be surprised if Type 99's roll in with this theme song playing.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

You are also mixing things up. Okay, China has been under CCP for over 60 years now. Why is it that until chairman MAO(CCP founder) died China was considered the sick man of Asia throughout his rule and among the poorest( of not the poorest, since even North Korea was wealthier)? So would you also blame that on the CCP or something else ?

I don't read too much, don't have time for bullshit, but this is just too funny. To criticize someone you must actually first know facts. If you don't know even simple facts, you're just some nobody talking shit.

1. Mao didn't found CCP, Chen Duxiu did.
2. Sick man of Asia referred to China in the 19th century up to 1945.

I don't know about you but I don't know any British that types like that. Maybe I overestimate the British education system but you type like ESL, not a native born white British.

 

[S10]

Better off waving your own flag. I wont be surprised if Type 99's roll in with this theme song playing.

Nobody is going to roll tanks in. It's not necessary and Beijing isn't stupid.

The fate of Hong Kong is sealed, death by economic slow decline. The cities around Zhujiang Delta will merge into a mega-metropolitan area and exclude Hong Kong in the next two decades. Hong Kong's financial hub status will slowly be replaced by Shanghai and Shenzhen in the coming years, but not immediately. Hong Kong's entire millennial and Gen Z will be left bitter and isolated, by their own prejudice, ignorance and hatred towards mainland.

 

[Nein]

Nobody is going to roll tanks in. It's not necessary and Beijing isn't stupid.

The fate of Hong Kong is sealed, death by economic slow decline. The cities around Zhujiang Delta will merge into a mega-metropolitan area and exclude Hong Kong in the next two decades. Hong Kong's financial hub status will slowly be replaced by Shanghai and Shenzhen in the coming years, but not immediately. Hong Kong's entire millennial and Gen Z will be left bitter and isolated, by their own prejudice, ignorance and hatred towards mainland.

Are Hong Kongers really racist towards mainland Chinese people?

 

[S10]

Are Hong Kongers really racist towards mainland Chinese people?

I wouldn't say racist, since we're the same race. Many of them however, exhibit a sense of superiority towards Chinese from mainland. They view us as sort of country bumpkins. This is especially prevalent towards those that do not speak Cantonese. Insult terms used by some of the protesters like locust (蝗虫), mainland dogs (大陆狗) and Chi-Na (支那) are examples of that attitude. As a Cantonese speaking guy originating from Guangzhou, even I feel that a bit when interacting with some Hong Kongers.

That attitude came from several sources in my nonempirical opinion:

• Colonization by Britain for over 150 years produced a sort of a Stockholm syndrome, where they identify more with their colonizers than their own blood brethren
• Influx of large waves of immigrants and refugees from 1949 onward that carry anti-communist views (Chinese civil war, Cultural Revolution, Vietnamese boat people, individuals escaping poverty etc)
• Educational system paints mainland China in a negative light and influencing kids from an early age
• Pro-western media and political oppositions constantly sensationalize stories about China
• Past prosperity (1980's to early 2000's) where even average salaries in Hong Kong could buy you a mistress in mainland

As a result, the entire generation that grew up post 1997 handover retained all the anti-communist education and media coverage since childhood, but they no longer has the economic edge over mainland as the city accounts for only 2.5% of China's GDP compared to nearly 1/4 in the 1980's. Property prices in Hong Kong went through the roof in the past 15 years, while salaries remain relatively stagnant. Working young adults are struggling to purchase home or build a career, and they place that blame on China for their woes.

This video sums it up nicely: