'This is Not The Free India I've Lived In': Another Writer Return Award

[Xenophon]

And this is the same that muslims in muslim majority areas do to others.

But we dnt elect them our pm .

 

[Xenophon]

Are muslims not camel urine drinkers? I suggest refrain from insults. It will get you nowhere. Look at the state of islam .It would not be in such a sorry state if it was not for the levels of intolerance of islamic societies.

Ever saw us appreciating urine . the answer is a big noo . but our ugly midget neighbors do so .

 

[dadeechi]

Where is the connection between your ethnic insult and the passage above? I take it that you are neither a Mallu nor a Bong.

Firstly, That was a Joke. Secondly, When did I insult anyone. Is calling someone a communist an insult? I do not have any beef (pun intended) with communism as a concept.

Making a statement that "A Political party is run from Nagpur" doesn't mean I am insulting the Marathis. I am only stating the fact how people relate to. Instead of Indians relating themselves to the country, they started relating themselves with their Language, Region, Religion, Caste and Political affiliation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Firstly, That was a Joke. Secondly, When did I insult anyone. Is calling someone a communist an insult? I do not have any beef (pun intended) with communism as a concept.

Making a statement that "A Political party is run from Nagpur" doesn't mean I am insulting the Marathis. I am only stating the fact how people relate to. Instead of Indians relating themselves to the country, they started relating themselves with their Language, Region, Religion, Caste and Political affiliation.

If your explanation is seriously so, I withdraw my remark.

 

[Diggy]

What if i drag u out of your house . beat u with bat until u die ?


rss do so and then u ask why educated people hate them .

how do you know RSS was behind that attack , a muslim in this country might lose hi wallet and blame RSS for it ..and then you always have our hyperactive media ready with their camera crew.

educated hindus don't hate RSS , because if that was the case modi wouldn't have got such an overwhelming thumbs up in the elections and during visits abroad ...don't know about educated muslims or christians

 

[Joe Shearer]

how do you know RSS was behind that attack , a muslim in this country might lose hi wallet and blame RSS for it ..and then you always have our hyperactive media always ready with their camera crew.

educated hindus don't hate RSS , because if that was the case modi wouldn't have got such an overwhelming thumbs up in the elections and during visits abroad ...don't know about educated muslims or christians

Most educated Hindus hate the RSS, and its heroes. The educated Hindus you are talking about include the technicians settled abroad, who are more royalist than the king, and the troglodytes in Indian History, who have emerged blinking into the sunlight that they thought they would never see.

 

[Diggy]

Most educated Hindus hate the RSS, and its heroes. The educated Hindus you are talking about include the technicians settled abroad, who are more royalist than the king, and the troglodytes in Indian History, who have emerged blinking into the sunlight that they thought they would never see.

POST EDITED

 

[dadeechi]

Are you sure that is what is happening ?

Its Hindutva politics that is uniting people divided over caste lines and forcing them to see the big picture. Its Nationalist politics that is uniting people over religious lines (wishful thinking).

What would be the percentage of Indian population that could be united under the Hindutva Nationalist politics?

BJP's 31% lowest vote share of any party to win majority

The fact that the BJP has won a majority on its own in the 16th Lok Sabha has, inevitably, drawn comparisons with previous elections in which parties have won a majority of seats on their own. What has not quite figured in most of these comparisons is the fact that no party has ever before won more than half the seats with a vote share of just 31%. Indeed, the previous lowest vote share for a single-party majority was in 1967, when the Congress won 283 out of 520 seats with 40.8% of the total valid votes polled.

This statistical fact points to an important aspect of the latest 'wave'. Far from spelling the end of a fractured polity, the 2014 results show just how fragmented the vote is. It is precisely because the vote is so fragmented that the BJP was able to win 282 seats with just 31% of the votes.

Simply put, less than four out of every 10 votes opted for NDA candidates and not even one in three chose somebody from the BJP to represent them. Those who picked the Congress or its allies were even fewer, less than one in five for the Congress with a 19.3% vote share (which incidentally is higher than the BJP's 18.5% in 2009) and less than one in every four for the UPA. Unfortunately for the Congress, its 19.3% votes only translated into 44 seats while BJP's 18.5% had fetched it 116 seats.

With the combined vote share of the BJP and Congress - the two major national parties - adding up to just over 50%, almost half of all those who voted in these elections voted for some other party. Even if we add up the vote tallies of the allies of these two parties, it still leaves a very large chunk out. The NDA's combined vote share was 38.5% and the UPA's was just under 23%. That leaves out nearly 39% — or a chunk roughly equal to the NDA's — for all others.

Is the 38.5% vote share for the NDA the lowest any ruling coalition has ever obtained? Not quite. The parties that constituted UPA-1 had just 35.9% of votes polled and the Congress won just 38.2% of the votes in 1991, when it ran a minority government under P V Narasimha Rao. But, except in 1991, they had to depend on outside support to keep the government afloat, which meant that the total vote share of those in the government or supporting it was higher.

In 1989, the National Front, consisting of the Janata Dal, DMK, TDP and Congress (S) won 146 seats and a vote share of 23.8%. To this was added the 85 seats and 11.4% of the BJP and the 52 seats and 10.2% of the Left, taking the total including those supporting from outside to 283 seats and 45.3% of the votes.

In 2004, parties in the pre-poll alliance stitched up by the Congress had 220 seats and just under 36% of the votes. But the UPA then got outside support from the Left, SP and PDP, which between them had 100 seats and about 11.2% vote share. Thus, UPA-1 was formed with the support of 320 MPs and about 47% of votes.

The NDA does not need any outside support to form the government. Indeed, the BJP can form it even on its own. But unless it ropes in others, it will become the government with the lowest popular support in terms of vote share after the Rao government.

BJP's 31% lowest vote share of any party to win majority - The Times of India

 

[Joe Shearer]

our history was written by those who were in close circles of chacha nehru ..so you will never know the real history

You are obviously talking without having read history, or even a single history book, because that is a tired and moth-eaten accusation of the Hindu revisionist which has been exploded over and over again. However, since you lot have nothing better to say, and nothing original available, this crops up every time.

The histories you are referring to, or any other kind of history, do not deal with anything to do that is under discussion. They did not deal with why educated Indians went abroad.

and you are mistaken if you think those indians who went abroad because of lack of opportunities here forgot their motherland.

Another obvious characteristic: you do not get the point. Read on to understand why you are dim.

NRI Indians are BJP’s biggest donor | The Indian Express

they have played their role in bringing investments & technology to india

My comment had nothing to do with this. I actually said:

Most educated Hindus hate the RSS, and its heroes. The educated Hindus you are talking about include the technicians settled abroad, who are more royalist than the king, and the troglodytes in Indian History, who have emerged blinking into the sunlight that they thought they would never see

Source: 'This is Not The Free India I've Lived In': Another Writer Return Award | Page 8

Do you understand, or do you need a personal tutor and a shampoo?

 

[Diggy]

You are obviously talking without having read history, or even a single history book, because that is a tired and moth-eaten accusation of the Hindu revisionist which has been exploded over and over again. However, since you lot have nothing better to say, and nothing original available, this crops up every time.

The histories you are referring to, or any other kind of history, do not deal with anything to do that is under discussion. They did not deal with why educated Indians went abroad.



Another obvious characteristic: you do not get the point. Read on to understand why you are dim.



My comment had nothing to do with this. I actually said:



Do you understand, or do you need a personal tutor and a shampoo?

my bad i misinterpreted your post ....my reply was in context of another argument that i get a lot from congies wrt certain communities who have a lot of their people in abroad.

The first generation of educated hindus in independent india did hate RSS because then congress version of secularism ( perverted ) was a fresh idea and it was more acceptable under those circumstances , but over the years we have seen the effects of it , one of the biggest challenge today this country faces is islamic extremism and evagelist , RSS has been here for decades and can be trusted , hence you will see its support grow among-st hindus to fight such elements which want to destroy our culture . You might not like it but thats the truth.

 

[Prajapati]

What would be the percentage of Indian population that could be united under the Hindutva Nationalist politics?

BJP's 31% lowest vote share of any party to win majority

BJP's 31% lowest vote share of any party to win majority - The Times of India

This is a strawman argument.

Politics is today is more competitive due to proliferation of Media and internet where even a new party like AAP can garner considerable vote share. Regional parties are proliferating like there is no tomorrow raking up local issues and National parties are loosing ground. TMC in Bengal, TD in AP, TRS in Telengana, BJD in orrisa, SS in Maharashtra, JD in Bihar, SP in UP etc....

In earlier times there was only Doordarshan and Print media so it has MUCH MUCH Harder for parties to make in roads. In those days CONgress was seen as the "hindu" party (remnants of Partition and Indira Gandhi's fierce Hindu take on "Durga")

Now consider the BJP performance in few of the most caste ridden societies in India .......... they have pretty much won everywhere. UP, Bihar, Gujarat, Rajasthan, (TD in Andhra pradesh)

That is what tells the story of Hindutva uniting and breaking down caste walls.

In Goa the Nationalism has won over the christians and same in the Northeast where Christians parties have come together to support the NDA govt.

 

[Joe Shearer]

my bad i misinterpreted your post ....my reply was in context of another argument that i get a lot from congies wrt certain communities who have a lot of their people in abroad.

The first generation of educated hindus in independent india did hate RSS because then congress version of secularism ( perverted ) was a fresh idea and it was more acceptable under those circumstances , but over the years we have seen the effects of it , one of the biggest challenge today this country faces is islamic extremism and evagelist , RSS has been here for decades and can be trusted , hence you will see its support grow among-st hindus to fight such elements which want to destroy our culture . You might not like it but thats the truth.

I do not like it, and it is not the truth.

First, about Islamic extremism. There has been no significant Islamic extremism among Muslim Indians; this is a phenomenon that has been remarked upon world-wide. It is arguable that much of Muslim (not Islamic) violence was due to ultra-right wing Hindu pressure, including mob violence. You can supply the examples yourself; there is no need to repeat what all of us know, and there is no need to comment further on a blatantly political use of religion spiralling out of control into a defiance of the rule of law, and an impact in terms of the worsened communal riots that we saw. Much of this rioting was one-sided massacre, not so much two communities clashing. Evidence has been mounting that the RSS has been involved, directly or indirectly, in inciting mob violence against isolated Muslims. The boot is on the other foot; it is not Islamic extremism that we have to fear, except in Kashmir, but Hindu extremism.

Second, about 'evagelist', or evangelist activity. Except for conversions done in the colonial era in the north-east, specifically in Nagaland and in Mizoram, also to a lesser extent in the Khasi and Jayantia Hills, now known as Meghalaya, there is little or no major conversion activity, although evangelists are always active among the poor and with the tribal population. There have been conversions, in small numbers, in these tracts, which are among the most wretched in terms of infrastructure and in terms of developmental support or government support to citizens in terms of basic needs - food, clothing and housing. This is also, not coincidentally, the strongest base for the Naxalites; both of them depend on the failure of government and the total neglect by the majority community and its social and religious institutions of these areas and their inhabitants.

Third, about the RSS. You mentioned that the RSS has been here for decades and can be trusted. Trusted to do what? to oppose the independence movement, to inspire the Muslims then with the thought that they would never be acceptable to the Hindus, and that therefore they needed to look out for themselves. What else, other than this utterly idiotic hostility, did they contribute to our independence movement? After independence, they did nothing for the economic upliftment of the country, or for culture, including academic culture. Instead, they constantly complained about the domination of the Communists, sometimes about the domination of the Congress, without ever for a moment contributing anything themselves to intellectual development. This was not due to lack of opportunities; those that are at the forefront of the RSS Brigade today were educationists and academicians long ago, without any visible favouring of their careers. By some strange logic, they convinced themselves, and others, that their own inactivity and lack of vigour was the fault of the existing establishment, and they had been discriminated against. Perhaps if they had published more and wept less tears of self-pity it might have helped them get ahead.

Fourth, you mentioned destroying our culture. What does this mean? Every single aspect has flourished in independent India, and in fact, some have been given more than their due, including homoeopathy, ayurveda and siddha medicine. In every aspect of cultural life, there was some development or the other. I would be interested to know which aspects were destroyed, as you so melodramatically put it.

Fifth, about the Congress. Most of us hated the Congress, and its share of the popular vote has been declining every year. It is not a factor, but it was not a factor from perhaps a decade ago. How can the corrupt, ineffective Congress possibly excuse the fire-storm of extremism that has been unleashed on the country today?

This is a strawman argument.

Politics is today is more competitive due to proliferation of Media and internet where even a new party like AAP can garner considerable vote share.

Weird, except by classical bigot standards. Politics today is more competitive, so a new party can win votes, so an old party that has never won votes will get more votes than it has ever got before, and win. The trouble is that these neem hakeems don't stop to think before putting their mouths and index fingers in gear.

Regional parties are proliferating like there is no tomorrow raking up local issues and National parties are loosing ground. TMC in Bengal, TD in AP, TRS in Telengana, BJD in orrisa, SS in Maharashtra, JD in Bihar, SP in UP etc....

And that is precisely what should be happening, now that the centralisation that Nehru sought to achieve, and that Jinnah opposed, is wearing away. It is obviously time to build local infrastructure; the big nation-level work has been done, and these have to be replicated on a smaller scale. It is for this reason that UP politicians have said that UP today, in its present form and its present size, is ungovernable, even after Uttar Khand is taken out. This, too, the reason why MP was split and Chhatisgarh was segregated, although not very intelligently, in my opinion. Also the reason why Bihar was divided. None of these was a colonial measure; the decisions were taken by ourselves after much thought and consideration.

Whether the regional parties are effective or not, whether or not we need the virulent bigotry of the SS is a different issue.

In earlier times there was only Doordarshan and Print media so it has MUCH MUCH Harder for parties to make in roads. In those days CONgress was seen as the "hindu" party (remnants of Partition and Indira Gandhi's fierce Hindu take on "Durga")

A classical excuse by the Sangh Parivar for non-performance; the hostility of the media. Now that they have bought out large sections of the media through their capitalist cronies, they are wallowing in the luxury of saying what they pretty much want and getting it printed.

Now consider the BJP performance in few of the most caste ridden societies in India .......... they have pretty much won everywhere. UP, Bihar, Gujarat, Rajasthan, (TD in Andhra pradesh)

That is what tells the story of Hindutva uniting and breaking down caste walls.

In Goa the Nationalism has won over the christians and same in the Northeast where Christians parties have come together to support the NDA govt.

 

[Prajapati]

Weird, except by classical bigot standards. Politics today is more competitive, so a new party can win votes, so an old party that has never won votes will get more votes than it has ever got before, and win. The trouble is that these neem hakeems don't stop to think before putting their mouths and index fingers in gear.

Who can know better than you that the old do not get respect in the new age India ? ...Be it party or individual, knowledge and power has both moved out of their/your hands.

And that is precisely what should be happening, now that the centralisation that Nehru sought to achieve, and that Jinnah opposed, is wearing away. It is obviously time to build local infrastructure; the big nation-level work has been done, and these have to be replicated on a smaller scale. It is for this reason that UP politicians have said that UP today, in its present form and its present size, is ungovernable, even after Uttar Khand is taken out. This, too, the reason why MP was split and Chhatisgarh was segregated, although not very intelligently, in my opinion. Also the reason why Bihar was divided. None of these was a colonial measure; the decisions were taken by ourselves after much thought and consideration.

Whether the regional parties are effective or not, whether or not we need the virulent bigotry of the SS is a different issue.

Everything has a reason ......... Not that this has anything to do with the topic being discussed.

A classical excuse by the Sangh Parivar for non-performance; the hostility of the media. Now that they have bought out large sections of the media through their capitalist cronies, they are wallowing in the luxury of saying what they pretty much want and getting it printed.

LOL.... is that so ? So be it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

.

Regarding the vote shares and the tide turning to the BJP, the tide had turned earlier, for others; it ebbs and flows. If there is any reason to believe that your party is beyond the reach of the moon, enquiring minds would like to know.

Who can know better than you that the old do not get respect in the new age India ? ...Be it party or individual, knowledge and power has both moved out of their/your hands.

As usual, a selective view.

The old gets a lot of attention at the hands of the Sangh Parivar. It must be an old buzzard spouting regressive, typically misogynist stuff, or an astrologer, or a palmist, or a never-made-it academician resurrected to eke out the Parivar's thin bench of practitioners at an academic conference.

Not for nothing is the ancient Jagdish Bhagwati, and his own little Sancho Panza, Panagariya, a favourite with the Parivar.

Everything has a reason ......... Not that this has anything to do with the topic being discussed.

Of course!

Anything that cannot be answered can be fixed with an LOL. Reason and logic don't come into the equation when something as simple and as elegant as faith is available.

LOL.... is that so ? So be it.

And there it goes, once again.

 

[indianBong]

his is also, not coincidentally, the strongest base for the Naxalites; both of them depend on the failure of government and the total neglect by the majority community and its social and religious institutions of these areas and their inhabitants.

I have been telling this for long.... even if tribals converts to christianity "in return" of food and a bit better standard of living then why accuse evangalist? Isnt it failure of govt to provide basic nessecity of life...? Failure of hindus and hindu organisations to uplift our lower sections...? Fault lies in us..and we accuse evangalists..!!!..its natural people won't get food by milking religion....
Well, in bengal Ramkrishna mission is working in many such areas...