There Was No Reason To Go For Only 8 New F16's:-----

[Muhammad Omar]

That's what we all are saying and chanting.... rather then going for F-16's we should have gone for J-11D or J-10C that have AESA

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

something is better than nothing. We can retire 8 Mirages or F-7s with these systems. Many other sources to purchase F-16s are also available. 8 more and we can convert another obsolete squadron.

 

[batmannow]

Hi,

This news about placing the order of 8 new F 16's came as a surprise from nowhere---. It was not 18---it was not 28---it was not 36----it was not 48---but it was 8 F16's---.

Was this some kind of a joke that the PAF hierarchy is playing on the public of Pakistan. What is the purpose behind the purchase of these 8 aircraft---. If the air force is so confident in the F 16---then why did it not go for another 2 to 3 sqdrn's.

For some strange reason the Pakistani air force is missing at what aircraft is the real need of Pakistan----.

Pakistan air force needs to understand that it is not its needs and desires that need to be met----it is the strategic need of what is important for Pakistan that needs to be acquired and not the other way around---.

The strategic need for Pakistan is a twin engine heavy air superiority and strike aircraft-----that has a loiter time of around 4 + hours---has air to air refueling capabilities or buddy refueling capabilities----and has a strike radius of at least 2000 miles---.

40 years ago----Paf had dedicated bomber aircraft in its fleet----even 33 years ago---they had the bombers----now for some strange reason---this bomber fleet has totally disappeared from the PAF manifest and replaced by smaller aircraft---. Even though these aircraft are very efficient and can carry the load of the 40 old aircraft----but then in comparison---the current day heavies strike aircraft can carry 3---10 times the weight of those bombers.

The PAF air chief needs to come out in the open and talk publicly the reason behind this purchase---because the new F16's don't bring anything new to the table.

The focus should have been on a twin engine like the J11D---The SU35---the Eurofighter. This procurement s just like throwing a monkey wrench into the gears.

8 new F16 bring nothing to the table----they do not change anything in the arena----and neither would 16 f16's either---. But if it were 16 J11's or 16 SU35's----that would start to change the game in the arena---.

The primary procurement at this time should have been a heavy air superiority strike fighter aircraft---and not the lightweight F16.

There is only one , reason why PAF is getting just F-16s now , the reason is that our military establishment don't want to show itself , tilting or changing towards anti-USA powers such as Russia & China , right now ?
& they just wanted to be open to everyone else at the same moment ?
& that reason itself , is a heavier proof that PAF is about to purchase some thing big from Russia ?
just at that time they don't want to be seen as Russians new found buddies ?
& actually these 8 F-16s are part of US military aid to us , so they are the ones deciding how much they can give us , with their alloted budget ?
But with Russia we will be dealing in cash , from China .
There is never a doubt that PAF needs long rangers like SU- 35 or J-11d s

 

[manojb]

I would have thought that both PAF's needs and the strategic needs of Pakistan meant the same things.

read this article. .
The Fighter Gap - 1
@MastanKhan

 

[ice_man]

@MastanKhan hello old man couldn't agree more with you

Hi,

This news about placing the order of 8 new F 16's came as a surprise from nowhere---. It was not 18---it was not 28---it was not 36----it was not 48---but it was 8 F16's---.

Was this some kind of a joke that the PAF hierarchy is playing on the public of Pakistan. What is the purpose behind the purchase of these 8 aircraft---. If the air force is so confident in the F 16---then why did it not go for another 2 to 3 sqdrn's.

For some strange reason the Pakistani air force is missing at what aircraft is the real need of Pakistan----.

Pakistan air force needs to understand that it is not its needs and desires that need to be met----it is the strategic need of what is important for Pakistan that needs to be acquired and not the other way around---.

The strategic need for Pakistan is a twin engine heavy air superiority and strike aircraft-----that has a loiter time of around 4 + hours---has air to air refueling capabilities or buddy refueling capabilities----and has a strike radius of at least 2000 miles---.

40 years ago----Paf had dedicated bomber aircraft in its fleet----even 33 years ago---they had the bombers----now for some strange reason---this bomber fleet has totally disappeared from the PAF manifest and replaced by smaller aircraft---. Even though these aircraft are very efficient and can carry the load of the 40 old aircraft----but then in comparison---the current day heavies strike aircraft can carry 3---10 times the weight of those bombers.

The PAF air chief needs to come out in the open and talk publicly the reason behind this purchase---because the new F16's don't bring anything new to the table.

The focus should have been on a twin engine like the J11D---The SU35---the Eurofighter. This procurement s just like throwing a monkey wrench into the gears.

8 new F16 bring nothing to the table----they do not change anything in the arena----and neither would 16 f16's either---. But if it were 16 J11's or 16 SU35's----that would start to change the game in the arena---.

The primary procurement at this time should have been a heavy air superiority strike fighter aircraft---and not the lightweight F16.

i couldn't agree with you more. PAF badly needs to change the dyanimcs of its force structure and hence needs to induct another platform such as the J11s or the SU35s.

you also mentioned "bombers" we had bombers till 2002 the last ones being A5 ground attack fighters retired from the front line.

BUT such is our mad obsession with the F16s that one after the it seems the whole PAF has blinders on and can't see anything beyond the F16s.

8 fighters

BLOODY 8 doesn't even make a squadron. a better approach would have been atleast two squadrons of somewhat used F16s 52s if that was the only way to satisfy the all consuming lust for F16s.

 

[SrNair]

I don't know much about these things but we should have some confidence in PAF command. We know little. They know the full picture.

If I was to hazard a guess I would say these F-16s are a stop gap measure for until major change down the road. F-16 is a potent fighter and in addition to the present fleet we have makes economic sense till over the horizon times comes for next generation fighter. That is when major change will take place.

Don't shoot me if what I said makes no sense. I admit I know dick*shit on this subject. My major is all things India in particular all things ugly India like starvation and human beasts of India pulling rickshaws.

*Anybody want enlightening on those subjects give us a shout. I will be happy to give "full spectrum" presentation.

Fantastic post of a TTC.

 

[xyxmt]

Hi,

This news about placing the order of 8 new F 16's came as a surprise from nowhere---. It was not 18---it was not 28---it was not 36----it was not 48---but it was 8 F16's---.

Was this some kind of a joke that the PAF hierarchy is playing on the public of Pakistan. What is the purpose behind the purchase of these 8 aircraft---. If the air force is so confident in the F 16---then why did it not go for another 2 to 3 sqdrn's.

For some strange reason the Pakistani air force is missing at what aircraft is the real need of Pakistan----.

Pakistan air force needs to understand that it is not its needs and desires that need to be met----it is the strategic need of what is important for Pakistan that needs to be acquired and not the other way around---.

The strategic need for Pakistan is a twin engine heavy air superiority and strike aircraft-----that has a loiter time of around 4 + hours---has air to air refueling capabilities or buddy refueling capabilities----and has a strike radius of at least 2000 miles---.

40 years ago----Paf had dedicated bomber aircraft in its fleet----even 33 years ago---they had the bombers----now for some strange reason---this bomber fleet has totally disappeared from the PAF manifest and replaced by smaller aircraft---. Even though these aircraft are very efficient and can carry the load of the 40 old aircraft----but then in comparison---the current day heavies strike aircraft can carry 3---10 times the weight of those bombers.

The PAF air chief needs to come out in the open and talk publicly the reason behind this purchase---because the new F16's don't bring anything new to the table.

The focus should have been on a twin engine like the J11D---The SU35---the Eurofighter. This procurement s just like throwing a monkey wrench into the gears.

8 new F16 bring nothing to the table----they do not change anything in the arena----and neither would 16 f16's either---. But if it were 16 J11's or 16 SU35's----that would start to change the game in the arena---.

The primary procurement at this time should have been a heavy air superiority strike fighter aircraft---and not the lightweight F16.

US offered to sell 8 F16...what more there is to say until Pakistan accepts that offer

 

[JonAsad]

Singe bhi lainge , Double engine bhi lainge aur triple engine bhi lainge

aath aath ker k- cha gaye hum-

 

[ThaniOruvan]

US abruptly turned down Pakistan's natak to paint India with terrorism.
But USA cannot afford to completely lose Pakistan's services, so to console Pakistan they just offered you to sell 8 jets.
It is all the way USA's play here.

 

[Hell hound]

now we got the chance (don't care about more f16) pls get your hands on as much aim 9x and hmds possible these monsters are the true force multipliers

 

[shah1398]

In my humble view PAF wanted to cash on the clause that Pakistan can buy 18 more F-16s in addition to 80 Block-52s (The number decreased to 18 due to Earthquake 2005 and other financial constraints). The same clause is expiring soon and PAF wanted to make best use of it and ordered 8 of the them to augment already present 18. Now question arises about heavies and twin engine ones. So had PAF not been interested in heavies like SU-35 and J-31 then it would have surely ordered 18 or even more as we had bought only 18 out of authorized 80. 18 plus 8 makes 26. So it means that we have now got two complete separate Squadrons of Block-52s with each Squadron having 13 of them. And this also means that these are the last of Block-52s or higher for PAF as if at all they would like to go for another Block -52 or highers ones purchase then they had to wait for the new President of USA and new congress members etc etc. Which only means 3 plus years more wait and that PAF can never afford.
PAF is still on track after heavies like SU-35 or any Chinese Twin Engine ones and that is evident from CAS statement that we looking both East and West for next Gen Aircraft.

PAF is looking for a next generation fighter in both, east and west - ACM Sohail Aman

His words are enough to prove that these 8 are just augmenters and had PAF gone for higher numbers then it would surely have meant bye bye to SU-35s and others.

So we wait till we hear some good news about heavies.
It was my humble view to which seniors can add more.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

In my humble view PAF wanted to cash on the clause that Pakistan can buy 18 more F-16s in addition to 80 Block-52s (The number decreased to 18 due to Earthquake 2005 and other financial constraints). The same clause is expiring soon and PAF wanted to make best use of it and ordered 8 of the them to augment already present 18. Now question arises about heavies and twin engine ones. So had PAF not been interested in heavies like SU-35 and J-31 then it would have surely ordered 18 or even more as we had bought only 18 out of authorized 80. 18 plus 8 makes 26. So it means that we have now got two complete separate Squadrons of Block-52s with each Squadron having 13 of them. And this also means that these are the last of Block-52s or higher for PAF as if at all they would like to go for another Block -52 or highers ones purchase then they had to wait for the new President of USA and new congress members etc etc. Which only means 3 plus years more wait and that PAF can never afford.
PAF is still on track after heavies like SU-35 or any Chinese Twin Engine ones and that is evident from CAS statement that we looking both East and West for next Gen Aircraft.

PAF is looking for a next generation fighter in both, east and west - ACM Sohail Aman

His words are enough to prove that these 8 are just augmenters and had PAF gone for higher numbers then it would surely have meant bye bye to SU-35s and others.

So we wait till we hear some good news about heavies.
It was my humble view to which seniors can add more.

But don't you think that 13 F-16 in a squad is quiet low where as other Squads have 18 jets...
but one can assume that PAF is saving money for something new (Jets) in PAF (just A guess) we'll have to wait as ACM is going to Russia next month

as for the Next generation he was talking about 5th Generation jets in east we can see J-31 (not ready yet) and T-50 (India is getting them) and South Korean (Design Phase) and in West there is F-22 (out of Question) F-35 ( expensive) Turkish (TAI TFX) only in design phase

but still we need Some Jets like J-11D , Su-35 , J-10C as we still need to replace our 300 jets sooner or later (150 being replaced by JF-17) while 150 still remaining

 

[majid mehmood]

but still we need Some Jets like J-11D , Su-35 , J-10C as we still need to replace our 300 jets sooner or later (150 being replaced by JF-17) while 150 still remaining

jf 17 will replace 250 jets
while these 50 jets might be replace by heavies
my favourite plane would be su 35, j 11d, or f 18

 

[shah1398]

But don't you think that 13 F-16 in a squad is quiet low where as other Squads have 18 jets...
but one can assume that PAF is saving money for something new (Jets) in PAF (just A guess) we'll have to wait as ACM is going to Russia next month

as for the Next generation he was talking about 5th Generation jets in east we can see J-31 (not ready yet) and T-50 (India is getting them) and South Korean (Design Phase) and in West there is F-22 (out of Question) F-35 ( expensive) Turkish (TAI TFX) only in design phase

but still we need Some Jets like J-11D , Su-35 , J-10C as we still need to replace our 300 jets sooner or later (150 being replaced by JF-17) while 150 still remaining

Agreed Sir. But we also have MLU F-16s and they can also be included in those Squadrons as PAF likes. I really forsee this thing coming ahead. They are planners and they know it very well. And yes all eyes are on the CAS visit to Russia as this very visit might clear up the air that what PAF has in mind.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

jf 17 will replace 250 jets
while these 50 jets might be replace by heavies
my favourite plane would be su 35, j 11d, or f 18

150 JF-17 is planned 50 Block I 50 Block II and 50 Block III so far so are these gonna replace 250? is Pakistan reducing it's Airforce here?