MastanKhan
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Hi to all.
Indeed the thread is refreshed again so I have been going through all posts shared by all members, senior than me indeed. I will put my little efforts to share that what I observed over all till now though it wouldn’t be enough to describe the situation perfectly but just a try from side. I will also request to the readers that under mentioned discussion is not in rebuttal of any claim here in above of any post or to counter the claims by any member.
Few points:-
1. The F-16s.
2. Just 8 F-16s but no more or less.
Point wise as follows:-
1. As we all know that after some turbulence in relations during past between Pakistan & USA, it was necessary to be acquaintance in diplomatic relations. Our PM visited USA with all the issues and matters in hand need to be discussed. Offering the F-16s, was indeed a move by US Government as a good will gesture and keeping in view the love of PAF and we all for F-16s, these planes were offered to a civilian elected PM for his Air Force. Seeing the necessity of the time, PAF said yes to the offer and went to deal believing the diplomacy work done by PM indeed. I wouldn’t miss the point here that availing the opportunity, might have discussed with PM by ACM for his visit as well that the F-16s may be added to the talks. Furthermore, the F-16 has become a diplomatic symbol between these two countries as in 90s it was the almost best machine available for us that US sold and no doubt the same has served us well and we were proud of that.
2. As it has been well observed in past about strategy of inducting new planes while keeping in view the lobbying pressure by the neighbors regarding numbers of a potent aircraft, might have decided to go for minimum numbers so that could be approved merely to avoid first thing among other issues like unbalancing between Air forces between of rivals. So as per my opinion going for 8 was a good move. So also as PAF is planning for more advance platform with long range and payload it would be wise to purchase the minimum for current inventory so the strength be maintained till further inductions of newer or future platform. It is also a wise decision as we have a growing platform of JF-17 with its newer blocks which will almost fulfill every duty in future by the retirement of F-16s so keeping the inventory of F-16s to the minimum as required is not to be like wasted money for short while retiring. So also, keeping in view of strategies around and need of future, this bird wouldn’t be needed that much or we may have JF-17 for the same purpose with less cost but till then a short number like these 8 and 8 more could be helpful a lot. The deal of just 8 F-16s can also be sighted as to keep the defence bridge connected with US and the current need for the time being as one of the operators of F-16s so the addition of these only 8 birds to the existing inventory would be beneficial rather going for full squadron at once with huge amount while having other plans in mind and as well as working upon.
a. Nay saying by congress
b. Our reaction
Point wise as follows:-
a. We are aware enough or less then that about the relations of US Government and congress which can be said like congress is a strong opposition to Obama and so also very well promulgated by Indian lobbyists. I feel myself that this point has been discussed a lot by posters in past and currently things work like this so in short it would be good enough to say that congress will indeed take this matter for debate and surely there will be as the SOP of US for these kinds of deals. The stall by congress is a usual thing and their way of doing business that we all may expect. So it isn’t a new thing if a big NO came even due to influence of lobbyists or to only oppose the Obama being an opposition.
b. US offered F-16s to Pakistan, PAF went to deal and things brought before to congress for approval and then a big NO came. The reply of US congress to the matter should not be a big concern for us but we should act like we wanted to buy something that the seller did not agree and we start to curse them, our leaders and even our military. We become so much emotional and forgot that relations are always needed though the level can be decided that to which extent it can be carried out in future. We almost act like there is nothing left in this world and rather getting over the weakness or lope holes start to beat the bushes. We respond like it is an end and that is exactly what the enemy has ever wished while seeing us to not to mind a nation respect but we almost plan to bring down by whatever the mean could be. We do not listen nor even give it a look that why this happened and we almost defame or demoralize the most respected institution in the manners that I am the best that should have been handling the matters or to be heard and followed.
i) The issues stopping us to have a Yes.
ii) Our responsibilities while reacting and to have a Yes.
Point wise as follows:-
i) In this discussion, I wouldn’t go for the names to avoid lengthy arguments. It has been discussed to the depth that what really a civilian government is lacking in Pakistan and how corrupted the leaders and office bearers are as well as the past which is indeed full of adversaries, tragedies, unfortunates, misshapes and our mistakes indeed. The cancer of corruption is the one most thing that has caused us the maximum damage since the start. I wouldn’t go in detail about who were/are the most corrupted or the names. Indeed the system for check and balance is needed to be strongest and to be above the personal relations of persons or wishes. It has been a dilemma that even having a system, it was never pursued by any office bearer merely for the sack of own interests whether those are business or political rivalry neither by us. Over the past, it has been witnessed that law has become a playful thing for the legislatures or the one who knows it and is used for personal benefits in every mean. The people whoever had or have power becomes over confident in dealings on behalf of the country so also sometimes avoided to seek help though other offices, opposition or group of more intelligent people, being in ego that such step may be used for political trials in next elections and the voter may think us incompetent. While in efforts to avoid such situation by office bearers, on many occasions, the interest and benefits of this country has been sacrificed only for political gain and to feed the evil soul of their ego in chase of dream to be called the leader in history. It is pertinent to mention here that in the name of democracy, our nation has been almost fooled indeed but to the some extent and the rest which is the most was always us who never being so ambitioned for the greater Pakistan. It is not like that in above discussion military has been avoided for any mistake. Indeed if military has taken any step that caused us damage but it was also the result of incompetent civilian government that was fully trusted by people and voted and that gave a chance to an officer to act and become a dictator in the name of good for this country. It is the history that no one brought forward the true facts of past despite belongs to any one but always trialed the opposition. Furthermore, diplomacy is the subject only for civilian government/ office bearers with the psych to be good in public relations and trained to deal with public affairs and with the Int’l community while on the other hand the burden of country’s security indeed leis upon the shoulders of military as trained hard for that purpose but the equation of civilian government and military training has been used wrongly many times. The most of the era which brought us sanctions and disputes was the time when this country has been ruled by the right people on the wrong time in the wrong way. All the figures participated for the growth of country in this era were right but the position they approached to do something good was a mistake and resultantly hurt the whole nation.
ii) The current government of Pakistan is indeed an elected one and presenting us in all over the world and same goes to our armed forces that do not hesitate to sacrifice their lives that we may live independently. Whenever, something happens against our expectations or wish, we are almost in habit to react things in a sentimental manner or over sentimentally. The first thing which should be done by us is, let be grown to that level where the one can’t say NO even if the lobby is stronger. However, growing to the level to have a Yes is purely our internal issue like, to which extent we should go for such relations and never to forget the sovereignty of Pakistan. Though always having a Yes is not like being a super power but we should be as much as potentially strong to be in the league of Never to Have a No. I will take it as if there is a NO by US then we have to look inside whether what is really wrong. Though there is something wrong inside then rather shouts in front of neighbors or the world, the best way could be to talk about things in house. The bashing of office bearers and military persons would bring no good to us but indeed in other words it would be like an embarrassment that we almost ignored yet everyone sees and against the norms of greater Pakistan. It is true fact that things has been done wrong and caused us damage but doesn’t mean that we should mourn until death and never to stand up like it’s an end. We can come up with ideas and solutions to the problems. We can highlight the areas that we lack so something better can be done. Our responsibility is to be remain most disciplined even there is so much turbulence, shaky waives or the rocky roads. Never to loose patients even in tense situations. My friendly and brotherly advice that do not bash our own people in front of an outsider. We should remain faithful. Let the leadership decide what is best for Pakistan. We all know that, despite few mistakes in past, PAF is getting well aligned this time so one little mistake will be like a sudden death. Indeed being Pakistani we all have passions and reaction for such kind of situations being patriots but never to forget that while in protest we may not burn our own assets which may bring nothing but regrets. All alone for PAF, I will say again here that what ever they chose as an aircraft, they are the ones going to war in that so they know what can be the best as they are the front men and will sacrifice first. As we all are Pakistan so everyone has to play his role to be the best so no one may ever say No.
The deal alone:-
It wouldn’t be wrong to say that this is not just an aircrafts deal. It is well established that there is much more attached in future with present F-16s deal in respect of relations of Pakistan and USA and diplomatic ties so also to have a vote for a favour in terms of any deal even in all West as well. On contrary, the current deal of F-16s would be counted as a deal alone subject to rejection as well like the shopkeeper removed the one thing off the shelf as not for sale but we got handful of other things and will be visiting later. So playing it like for the last time is not a farsighted move in these times or in terms of diplomacy as well.
The platforms may be opted.
There are still many options as preferably China first for J-16s, J-10s etc or Russia for SU-35s. I will be a little short here that J-16s would be like 4.5++ with twin engine so will serve the best as long range, advanced and close to 5thgen. As the J-10 is a single engine aircraft so there will be little gap left in respect of twin engine advantages. Also, China is our best friend so far and we have a bright future together so going for Chinese aircrafts would also help us in near future where the need of 5thgeneration would become essential. By going for any Chinese birds currently available for PAF would be much helpful in future in case we opts the J-31 or not to least that JF-17 program can do wonders.
SU-35 is no doubt a best aircraft but there is a thing like a little doubt for future as what if shortage of parts etc to be faced in future while keeping in view the economical situation. Also we are almost aware of flankers with the help of Chinese friends that our pilots would have hand on them I think. Procuring the SU-35 would be like the enemy haven’t to work hard to assume the almost capability of machine. But having a look at news in past about an overhauling facility of RD-93 in Pakistan, also suggest that going for SU-35 wouldn’t be that difficult.
In the last:-
No wonder, PAF would have thought and kept in mind about any shortcoming in future and as well as every right and wrong if there is any. The choice of PAF will be better indeed and keeping in view the current doctrine, whatever suits the purpose will be procured. Whatever platform has to be adopted, I wouldn’t forget to share here that PAF has the history full of surprises. My friends, love and our patriotism for our country/armed forces is can not be doubted at all but while criticizing, we may not forget the sacrifices and hard times they faced for us. A criticism is not alone a solution but rectifying the issues with ideas and possibilities are far better.
Above all was shared here only in the interest of the ideas, observations, learning, possibilities, happenings and top of that Pakistan.
Pakistan Zindabad.
Hi,
The thanks to your post is for the effort and NOT the material.
The paragraphs are too long. So---at least I cannot comprehend what you want to say.
The defense bridge was to be kept up by the U S---. They have pulled it up at their discretion.
I have always believed---that regardless of the earthquake---the money for 72 F16 should never had been diverted in 2005.
Even if the U S govt had given the go ahead---the temperature in the congress was not in the favor of Pakistan----and it was very obvious----.
I would like the Pakistani members to stop being APOLOGISTS FOR THEIR MILITARY----.
Its clear to India that French helped Pakistan on ROSE project in tough years, PAF was also interested in Mirage-2000 and the deal almost went through, so in future Pakistan could opt for French Rafale and that could possibly be a sanction free western platform for PAF, so going for Rafale by IAF was very smart even when USA tried to lure it through nuclear deals and F-16IN and F-18 E/F and also EFT is chosen and flown by many more nations in large numbers compared to Rafale. India also keeps Russia happy by not going for a large order of USA aircrafts and this way doesnt provide any excuse for Russia to supply SU35 to PAF.
As seen in past 50 years or so, China is the only nation capable of providing (high-end,atleast after 2000's) sanction-free hardware to Pakistan.
Hi,
Thank you for your post---. Not getting the Rafale in 2002-05 was the second blunder that the PAF made.
If paf had gone for the rafale----india was stuck between a rock and a hard place---because there was nothing out there superior to the rafale.
The first blunder off course was getting the F16's in the 80's and not going for the mirage 2 K----.
Both the times---this stupid organization cut the feet underneath of its nation.
Treason is not a term strong enough to be used when referring to PAF management.
