The word "Shaheed" and dead Indian soldiers

[SQ8]

What is "Muslim" about shaheed?

Why are you giving a religious spin to a soldier's sacrifice?

You think Muslim soldiers do not die for India?

Please at least do not be disrespectful to a soldier's sacrifice on a defence forum!

Cheers, Doc

What is the meaning of Shaheed?
It definitely isn’t always Martyr if Indians think that.
The word’s etymology is generally focused on being a witness. The idea being that those who die are witness to the acceptance of Allah's path.

Now since the bigotry now taught in India tends to conceptualize Allah as an Arabic concept it simply cannot be that anyone besides a Muslim willingly accepts it.

Regarding the ridiculous claim of adpoting the word, it is utter nonsense to think that somehow a nation 70 years young decided to adopt a term used for thousands of years overnight.
The word was used by all Invading armies from Arab and Persian Muslim rulers and the cultural influence stuck around to form part of the language.
Somehow claiming to adopt the word to another usage does not equate to its use for thousands of years that predates the 70 odd years Bharat has existed.

So clearly the word is no longer in context to current Indian Hindu beliefs.

 

[coffee_cup]

How do you know the soldiers were Hindu?

All the names of dead soliders with pictures were displayed on the screen.
Not so difficult to find out in these times of google and co.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I know your "ummah chumah " and "Muslim brotherhood" concept you big blank mind.

First ask Arabs if they consider you as your brother more than Indian Muslims.
Such a delusional minds you guys have.

Who cares about ummah ? I dont .. might aswell get that through your thick little skull hindo.

As for Shaheed.. lmao;

“Shaheed", is a specific term, used in the Holy Quran and Sunnah. It has certainly a specific meaning and one should be careful before applying this term to a person and you should ascertain whether he is really qualified to be called a "Shaheed."

According to Islamic Jurisprudence, "Shaheed" is of two kinds:

1. Shaheed in the real sense.
2. Shaheed in the constructive sense.

Shaheed in the real sense is a Muslim who has been killed during "Jihad" or has been killed by any person unjustly. Such a person has two characteristics different from common people who die on their bed. Firstly, he should be buried without giving him a ritual bath. However, the prayer of the Janazah shall be offered on him and he shall also be given a proper kafin (burial shroud). Secondly, he will deserve a great reward in the Hereafter and it is hoped that Allah Almighty shall forgive his sins and admit him to Jannah. It is also stated in some of the traditions that the body of such a person remains in the grave protected from contamination or dissolution.

As compared to this kind of "Shaheed" a Shaheed in a constructive sense is a person who has been promised by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam to get a reward of a Shaheed in the Hereafter but is not taken as Shaheed with regard to the rules of burial. It means that the dead body has to be bathed like a dead body of any other person. The Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam has included in this category of Shaheed a large number of persons such as a person who has died in a Plague or who has died in an unexpected accident, like a fire or a traffic accident or who has been drowned in the water or a woman who has died during the delivery of her child etc.

Allama Jalaluddin Suyuti, a well-known scholar of Islamic disciplines, has collected all the Hadiths relating to this kind of Shaheed and has come to the conclusion that there are thirty categories mentioned by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam who can deserve to be called Shaheed in this sense. But in the normal course, the word "Shaheed" is applied only for the first kind. However, it is not prohibited to use the word for a person who falls in any of the categories mentioned in the second kind.

It is evident from the above discussion that the word "Shaheed" can only be used for a Muslim and cannot be applied to a non-Muslim at all. Similarly, the term cannot be used for a person who has been rightly killed as a punishment of his own offence.

 

[padamchen]

What is the meaning of Shaheed?
It definitely isn’t always Martyr if Indians think that.
The word’s etymology is generally focused on being a witness. The idea being that those who die are witness to the acceptance of Allah's path.

Now since the bigotry now taught in India tends to conceptualize Allah as an Arabic concept it simply cannot be that anyone besides a Muslim willingly accepts it.

Regarding the ridiculous claim of adpoting the word, it is utter nonsense to think that somehow a nation 70 years young decided to adopt a term used for thousands of years overnight.
The word was used by all Invading armies from Arab and Persian Muslim rulers and the cultural influence stuck around to form part of the language.
Somehow claiming to adopt the word to another usage does not equate to its use for thousands of years that predates the 70 odd years Bharat has existed.

So clearly the word is no longer in context to current Indian Hindu beliefs.

Let it go Oscar.

In this new hateful avatar of yours you are actually condoning this guy scoring points on the bodies of dead soldiers.

Soldiers who could well be Muslim.

When it suits you to be glib ....

Cheers, Doc

 

[Areesh]

Shaheed is an Islamic concept of death and applies only for muslim soldiers fighting for defense of a muslim state or a muslim nation.

A non muslim wouldn't be called a shaheed and that includes Indian soldiers too. This applies to non muslim soldiers of Pakistan too. In similar manner Indian muslim soldiers aren't shaheed either since they didn't fight for a muslim state or for Islamic cause .

There are dozens of fatwas on this and it is something which is pretty much unambiguous.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

What is the meaning of Shaheed?
It definitely isn’t always Martyr if Indians think that.
The word’s etymology is generally focused on being a witness. The idea being that those who die are witness to the acceptance of Allah's path.

Now since the bigotry now taught in India tends to conceptualize Allah as an Arabic concept it simply cannot be that anyone besides a Muslim willingly accepts it.

Regarding the ridiculous claim of adpoting the word, it is utter nonsense to think that somehow a nation 70 years young decided to adopt a term used for thousands of years overnight.
The word was used by all Invading armies from Arab and Persian Muslim rulers and the cultural influence stuck around to form part of the language.
Somehow claiming to adopt the word to another usage does not equate to its use for thousands of years that predates the 70 odd years Bharat has existed.

So clearly the word is no longer in context to current Indian Hindu beliefs.

Can you please check this @Royal Rajput dickwads IP..

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Modern day "India" is a newborn country since 1947 and has nothing to do with "British India", which was a collection of several dozen independent states. We Pakistanis on the other hand are true inheritors of the ancient civilization from this region, i.e. Indus Valley.

"Shaheed" is a term used in Quran, the supreme book of Muslims including Pakistanis (97% of which are Muslism). The term is used for "Mujahids" who fought for Allah and sacrificed their lives in the process.

So extremist Indian govt must have thought of some high value now before propagating it via all of its media so agressively.

And I would like to know that value proposition.

The World doesn't read or neither believe in your rediment history text books.
The whole world knows what you were before independence.
You guys have no logic in your debate.
We don't need to take history lesson from a country of brainwashed people.
So don't troll the subject now .

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The World doesn't read or neither believe in your rediment history text books.
The whole world knows what you were before independence.
You guys have no logic in your debate.
We don't need to take history lesson from a country of brainwashed people.
So don't troll the subject now .

Gtfo kid.

 

[Areesh]

The World doesn't read or neither believe in your rediment history text books.
The whole world knows what you were before independence.
You guys have no logic in your debate.
We don't need to take history lesson from a country of brainwashed people.
So don't troll the subject now .

Come on man. Don't be this stubborn and debate just for the sake of it. Invent a new word for your soldiers. You have dozens of languages in India.

I am sure you would find a suitable word in them.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Who cares about ummah ? I dont .. might aswell get that through your thick little skull hindo.

As for Shaheed.. lmao;

“Shaheed", is a specific term, used in the Holy Quran and Sunnah. It has certainly a specific meaning and one should be careful before applying this term to a person and you should ascertain whether he is really qualified to be called a "Shaheed."

According to Islamic Jurisprudence, "Shaheed" is of two kinds:

1. Shaheed in the real sense.
2. Shaheed in the constructive sense.

Shaheed in the real sense is a Muslim who has been killed during "Jihad" or has been killed by any person unjustly. Such a person has two characteristics different from common people who die on their bed. Firstly, he should be buried without giving him a ritual bath. However, the prayer of the Janazah shall be offered on him and he shall also be given a proper kafin (burial shroud). Secondly, he will deserve a great reward in the Hereafter and it is hoped that Allah Almighty shall forgive his sins and admit him to Jannah. It is also stated in some of the traditions that the body of such a person remains in the grave protected from contamination or dissolution.

As compared to this kind of "Shaheed" a Shaheed in a constructive sense is a person who has been promised by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam to get a reward of a Shaheed in the Hereafter but is not taken as Shaheed with regard to the rules of burial. It means that the dead body has to be bathed like a dead body of any other person. The Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam has included in this category of Shaheed a large number of persons such as a person who has died in a Plague or who has died in an unexpected accident, like a fire or a traffic accident or who has been drowned in the water or a woman who has died during the delivery of her child etc.

Allama Jalaluddin Suyuti, a well-known scholar of Islamic disciplines, has collected all the Hadiths relating to this kind of Shaheed and has come to the conclusion that there are thirty categories mentioned by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam who can deserve to be called Shaheed in this sense. But in the normal course, the word "Shaheed" is applied only for the first kind. However, it is not prohibited to use the word for a person who falls in any of the categories mentioned in the second kind.

It is evident from the above discussion that the word "Shaheed" can only be used for a Muslim and cannot be applied to a non-Muslim at all. Similarly, the term cannot be used for a person who has been rightly killed as a punishment of his own offence.

Who will decide if a Muslim soldier dying for what cause? You or Allah??

 

[My-Analogous]

What is "Muslim" about shaheed?

Why are you giving a religious spin to a soldier's sacrifice?

You think Muslim soldiers do not die for India?

Please at least do not be disrespectful to a soldier's sacrifice on a defence forum!

Cheers, Doc

Its an Arabic word and it has nothing to do with Pakistan as Pakistan is not an Arabic race.
India has all rights reserved of this word since the mugal era. India is using this word for independence heros since before pakistan took birth on India's land.

Its an arabic word that came ti India and we have adopted it. Just like world have adopted hindu numerical system (transferred by Arabs to Europe)

@saif al-hijaz do u uave any problem if we use your arabic word ?

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/shahid
http://translation.babylon-software.com/english/shaheed/

A shahid is considered one whose place in Paradise is promised according to these verses in the Quran:

The Quran, chapter 3 (Al Imran), verse 169–170:
Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord; They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah. And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve. — translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

The Quran, chapter 9 (At-Tawba), verse 111:

Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur´an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. — translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

The Quranic passage that follows is the source of the concept of Muslim martyrs being promised Paradise:

The Quran, chapter 22 (Al-Hajj), verse 58:

Those who leave their homes in the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die,- On them will Allah bestow verily a goodly Provision: Truly Allah is He Who bestows the best provision. — translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

Hadiths
The importance of faith is highlighted in the following hadith:

It has been narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Who seeks martyrdom with sincerity shall get its reward, though he may not achieve it.

— Collected by Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj, "Sahih Muslim"[4]
It is thus not the outcome that determines the placement in Heaven but rather the intention.

Nonetheless, Paradise for a Shahid is a popular concept in the Islamic tradition according to Hadith, and the attainment of this title is honorific.

The prophet Muhammad is reported to have said these words about martyrdom:

By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[5]
The Prophet said, "Nobody who enters Paradise likes to go back to the world even if he got everything on the Earth, except a Mujahid who wishes to return to the world so that he may be martyred ten times because of the dignity he receives (from Allah).

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[6]
Several hadith also indicate the nature of a Shahid's life in Paradise. Shahids are thought to attain the highest level of Paradise, the Paradise of al-Firdous.

Haritha was martyred on the day (of the battle) of Badr, and he was a young boy then. His mother came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! You know how dear Haritha is to me. If he is in Paradise, I shall remain patient, and hope for reward from Allah, but if it is not so, then you shall see what I do?" He said, "May Allah be merciful to you! Have you lost your senses? Do you think there is only one Paradise? There are many Paradises and your son is in the (most superior) Paradise of Al-Firdaus.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[7]
Furthermore, Samura narrated:

The Prophet said, "Last night two men came to me (in a dream) and made me ascend a tree and then admitted me into a better and superior house, better of which I have never seen. One of them said, 'this house is the house of martyrs.'

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[8]
There are at least five different kinds of martyrs according to hadith.

Allah's Apostle said, "Five are regarded as martyrs: They are those who die because of plague, abdominal disease, drowning or a falling building etc., and the martyrs in Allah's cause.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[9]

One who dies protecting his property is also considered a martyr according to Hadith:

I heard the Prophet saying, "Whoever is killed while protecting his property then he is a martyr.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[10]

While the Qur'an does not indicate much about martyrs' death and funeral, the hadith provides some information on this topic. For example, martyrs are to be buried two in one grave in their blood, without being washed or having a funeral prayer held for them. The following Hadith highlight this:

The Prophet collected every two martyrs of Uhud in one piece of cloth, then he would ask, "Which of them had (knew) more of the Quran?" When one of them was pointed out for him, he would put that one first in the grave and say, "I will be a witness on these on the Day of Resurrection." He ordered them to be buried with their blood on their bodies and they were neither washed nor was a funeral prayer offered for them.

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[11]

So it is 100% Islamic terminology used by Muslims only. Now tell me where are you standing?. By calling them Shaheed means you are calling them Muslims, are you agree on that?

 

[coffee_cup]

The World doesn't read or neither believe in your rediment history text books.
The whole world knows what you were before independence.
You guys have no logic in your debate.
We don't need to take history lesson from a country of brainwashed people.
So don't troll the subject now .

Where is "Mohenjo Doro" located?

Where is "Harrappa" located?

Now stealing our history or some concept from us and repeating it on your media over and over and over again as yours doesn't make it yours. We know how majority of Indians love to buy everything their bollywood inspired media - famous for spreading fake news - feeds them.

But there are some facts you can never change.

Including the word "Shaheed" being used for Muslim soldiers who fought in the path of Allah to protect their country against agressors.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Who will decide if a Muslim soldier dying for what cause? You or Allah??

Are you retarded?

Pretty sure Islam has set conditions and principles for that..

 

[SQ8]

Let it go Oscar.

In this new hateful avatar of yours you are actually condoning this guy scoring points on the bodies of dead soldiers.

Soldiers who could well be Muslim.

When it suits you to be glib ....

Cheers, Doc

I don’t care if the dead bodies are soldiers or adult movie stars. It’s simple usage of a word in incorrect context that is the issue.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Come on man. Don't be this stubborn and debate just for the sake of it. Invent a new word for your soldiers. You have dozens of languages in India.

I am sure you would find a suitable word in them.

I dont mind to use other words for our dead soldiers . But the problem startd when some Pakistanis becomes thekedaar of Indian Muslims and their faith.
You are a separate country now and very very new one. So invent something your own. Don't try to be "thekedaar" of the whole Muslim world.
You should not tell what word we should use for our died soldiers.