The woes of Bengalis and Burmese of Karachi

[El Sidd]

What woes are we talking about here?

I encounter Karachiites of Bengali origin when i travel to Karachi and all they say is 'Alhumdulilah bhalo she'. The most content of Pakistanis and always thankful to the might Lord.

The city in itself faces issues like any other cosmopolitan metropolitan city and its been governed as if it is just another small village in Sindh which is appalling.

The city hosts refugees from Afghanistan which adds a unique twist and the mixture of culture and tradition is culminating in its own Karachi culture i.e. the quick witted businessman.

Ideally the city should be made a into a twin city with Hyderabad or be administratively divided into manageable divisions.

As far as illegal Bongladeshis are concerned. Well its 2017 they face one of two options

1) Register yourself as refugee
2) Swim back to Bongladesh

No two ways about it. Pakistan values your motivation to come here but at this moment in time we cannot afford you guys. Try again in 10 years time.

 

[Mage]

What woes are we talking about here?

I encounter Karachiites of Bengali origin when i travel to Karachi and all they say is 'Alhumdulilah bhalo she'. The most content of Pakistanis and always thankful to the might Lord.

The city in itself faces issues like any other cosmopolitan metropolitan city and its been governed as if it is just another small village in Sindh which is appalling.

The city hosts refugees from Afghanistan which adds a unique twist and the mixture of culture and tradition is culminating in its own Karachi culture i.e. the quick witted businessman.

Ideally the city should be made a into a twin city with Hyderabad or be administratively divided into manageable divisions.

As far as illegal Bongladeshis are concerned. Well its 2017 they face one of two options

1) Register yourself as refugee
2) Swim back to Bongladesh

No two ways about it. Pakistan values your motivation to come here but at this moment in time we cannot afford you guys. Try again in 10 years time.

There is a legal process you know. Prove that they are from Bangladesh, like find their national ID card or Passport or any such document issued by the gov't of Bangladesh. Inform Bangladesh about them and show the relevant documents. And tell that you are sending them back through this channel. We will gladly take them back. Thank you very much.

 

[Mage]

Pakistan may not be USA or Dubai but it still better than Bd.

 

[Bilal9]

Hope this was not the case but sadly it is.....there is essentially no difference in per capita GDP between both countries, in spite of a significant and early 25 year differential and headstart in favor of Pakistan....hope the situation in Pakistan is reversed soon.

I wouldn't care if not for the fact that Pakistan still is supposed to be a brotherly country to us in spirit and a possible axis at times of conflict. A few Pakistani PDF posters' immature thoughts and personal attacks notwithstanding.

There has been enough cooperation between our militaries in the past.

 

[Bilal9]

As cost of living rises and people become more educated, the population growth will level off. This is an established pattern.

You have to head off things at the pass *before* population boom. Not after. And hoping things will correct on their own is at best futile.

In Bangladesh we arrested fertility rise twenty years ago by starting subsidized education for women which is better than free. Sacks of rice every month ensured that women got educated, there are more girls than boys in Bangladeshi schools at all levels. Which is better than in India even.

You are twenty years too late. Do something now, is my advice.

I like those numbers. The world needs good strong Pakistanis.

Famous last words and illogical to boot. I'm sorry...

Karachi is dense though not nearly as dense as Dhaka.

Dhaka is temporarily dense because of all the garments factories located here. They are starting to move out to SEZs in remote areas.

Bilal, what you have cobbled up is fairly mild stuff. I don't see anything 'alarming' here. The sky is not falling.

Well lets agree to disagree, shall we?

 

[Nilgiri]

Bangladesh population growth rate would be lot higher if it kept all its people inside BD.

They "outsourced" millions of their people to the region illegally and use the BBS numbers to then prop up their demographic and health claims. Then have audacity to put down Pakistan and India.

There is a reason these BD idiots here feel great shame whenever they see just how many of their riffraff visit India each year to get basic (and i mean very very basic) medical treatment....especially seeing how we treat such people when they do illegal activites at the border (yet they still shamelessly come here like nothing matters) and have a much more controlled and monitored visa process now (so we can continue to control BD govt easily). All of it quite easily disprove their fake numbers industry, just like the Economist also did by ranking Dhaka where they did in the liveability ranking among bottom rung warzones (thats what happens when you dont exclusively rely on BD claims).

These numbskulls (except a very few) cannot get beyond the overall "3 million" genohoax complex in almost any subject it seems. I say let them believe their deluded self-congratulatory numbers, just like North Korea hopes its people does.....whole world on the other hand knows better (when it cares enough in first place) given the ratings on institutional capacity and corruption.

Friendly bit of advice to all non-BD people: don't trust any number they put out that cannot be verified by neutral party or at least correlated with an externally measured footprint. UN and its organs have no choice (BD is a member country), but you should be more intelligent and pragmatic regarding it.

 

[Khanate]

You have to head off things at the pass *before* population boom. Not after. And hoping things will correct on their own is at best futile.

I want the population boom that's what I've been arguing for.

In Bangladesh we arrested fertility rise twenty years ago by starting subsidized education for women which is better than free. Sacks of rice every month ensured that women got educated, there are more girls than boys in Bangladeshi schools at all levels. Which is better than in India even.

You are twenty years too late. Do something now, is my advice.

Those are developmental schemes and Pakistan has them too in distressed areas.

Famous last words and illogical to boot. I'm sorry...

We see things differently.

To me, demography is destiny. I see micro and macro indicators and I feel Pakistan shouldn't be overly concerned with population and ignore all the doom and gloom. Why? Because we are a developing country and we need human capital for all sorts of things. And if Pakistanis are willing to produce the human capital for the motherland then what right does the government have to stop them?

The only thing Pakistan needs to ensure is that there are jobs, mobility and the right amount of scarcity. The rest should be left to people. They are rational actors and they will decide the best course of action for themselves.

In my view, the interventionist approach hurts the country in the long run. Because once you have trained the population on contraception, they may not produce the required human capital at the rate you need. You see this happening in many developed countries.

In fact, this is a problem that China may face due to their aging population which is why a population boom is great for Pakistan because someone has to be the next factory of the world.

Dhaka is temporarily dense because of all the garments factories located here. They are starting to move out to SEZs in remote areas.

How does moving factories to SEZs solve your population density issues? You move factories outside of cities because they create hazardous waste, noise, pollution, etc. And you put them together in SEZs to create an ecosystem. This doesn't solve your population density issues in Dhaka.

Well lets agree to disagree, shall we?

There isn't much to agree or disagree here. You feel Pakistan should reduce its population because... I don't know. My response is you're not Pakistani. We can both agree on that.

 

[El Sidd]

There is a legal process you know. Prove that they are from Bangladesh, like find their national ID card or Passport or any such document issued by the gov't of Bangladesh. Inform Bangladesh about them and show the relevant documents. And tell that you are sending them back through this channel. We will gladly take them back. Thank you very much.

Forget about the law when they themselves entered illegally.

The callous attitude of the Bongladeshi government is dangerous towards its own people.

No wonder Bongladeshis end up in Pacific ocean wandering in dingy boats.

 

[Hasan89]

I can't speak for the Rohingya/Burmese, as I don't about their migration to the mighty martial land of Pak (where taliban rules and their mighty army yet to defeat it).

But for...
These Bengalis in Pakistan are Pakistan gov responsibility, they are born there, left pre 71, even if they went there after don't matter and irrelevant. It's only fair they went to the land that once said was ours too/together, but looted other part of its 'supposed' nation. All the resources, wealth, West Pak took from East Pak Bengalis. Only fair some Bengalis settled back in West Pak to regain something from its stolen wealth and live in the land they helped build and from their wealth then, which hence West-Paks many cities got developed, most notably the capital Islamabad got it's source of big funds for development from East Pakistan hardworking Bengalis. http://www.dhakatribune.com/world/2016/10/18/pakistani-provincial-cm-west-pakistan-looted-bengalis/

Now, don't be moaning about it. These people will not going anywhere. Give them are the proper rights, they belong there in their land. Not anyone else's responsibilities but gov of Pak's. So no point in trying to make a case out of nothing. But yes I forgot it's the Internet, so yes some of you can only talk

 

[Khanate]

I wouldn't care if not for the fact that Pakistan still is supposed to be a brotherly country to us in spirit and a possible axis at times of conflict. A few Pakistani PDF posters' immature thoughts and personal attacks notwithstanding.

There has been enough cooperation between our militaries in the past.

Bilal, you may have gotten the wrong impression so let me clarify.

The point I'm trying to get across is that there is no good reason to compare Pakistan with Bangladesh in terms of demographics, or population, purely because we have similar nominal per capita GDP. Why? Because, Pakistan has more area and resources to support a larger population. We are not Saudi Arabia where over 90% of the land is desert.

To make this point more pronounce, can we compare Qatar (per capita GDP of $68,940 USD) with United States (per capita GDP of $57,467) because the two have similar nominal per capita GDP? I'm arguing that it doesn't make any sense just look at the area:

The area highlighted in orange is United States and the area highlighted in green, with the help of a circle because its essentially a dot on the map, is Qatar. Do you see the gist of my argument now?

Previously, I gave you the example of Myanmar and Ghana. Myanmar is right next to you and has a similar nominal per capita GDP, just like Ghana, however the difference in terms of area or sheer population is huge just as it is the case with Ghana. I hope this clarifies my response and you do not feel you are being targeted because that is not my intention.

Now lets address your point in terms of your argument on Pakistan's population independently. Some of the material you posted talks about sprawl which is the result of uncoordinated growth. In American and European cities, sprawl can result in enclaves or sub-urban areas that overstretch city services and lacks density. For example, how can a city provide daily bus service in a sustainable manner in an area that has only 200 residents? Given the meager tax collection, it can't be done. This often leads to cities becoming financial burdens or going bankrupt in some extreme cases. So why do I mention this? Because this is not the case in say Mumbai, Karachi or Dhaka. These South Asian cities are very densely populated. As long as we follow good urban planning practices, sprawl is less of an issue for us and we can provide essential services in a sustainable manner.

Some here may wonder what will happen to older dwellings in the city core which were built prior to the introduction of modern urban planning principles? Well, you can certainly manage them or modernise them but it is far cheaper to allow them to decay and fall into disrepair at which point you can revitalise them by bringing in businesses or housing developers who lap up the land because its prime real estate. That's what Donald Trump did in the 80s and 90s in New York. The people who live in those old areas can move on to better planned dwellings but one day these dwellings will face the same dilemma, i.e., the world has discovered better urban planning methods and old areas are getting tough love from city planners. The same patterns will repeat and the cycle continues. That's how New York, Beijing, Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong etc. were transformed. I'm sure you can see hints of that in Dhaka as well. I certainly see hints of it in Karachi:

On a personal note, you are a good poster. I like your posts but take everything I say with a healthy dose of sarcasm. I mean well and I certainly don't want to give you the impression that we are somehow inhospitable people. I welcome you and all the Bangladeshi posters. Given the history of our two countries, we really should make more of an effort but my sarcasm tends to get the best of me. If you felt that I unfairly targeted you, I will gladly apologise but that was never my intention.

 

[Species]

@BANGLAR BIR please don't post these irrelevant threads here, it's a defence forum! Economy and political threads could be understandable but this is completely Pakistan's internal issue.

 

[Banglar Bir]

@BANGLAR BIR please don't post these irrelevant threads here, it's a defence forum! Economy and political threads could be understandable but this is completely Pakistan's internal issue.

Discuss Bangladesh defence, military, air force, navy, army, special forces, strategic affairs and relations with the other countries.
As these unfortunate people are from Bangladesh + Muslims in Rakhine, this is NOT an internal issue of Pakistan only, Bangladesh requires to seriously look into these sensitive issues, a part of our Diplomatic responsibility and obligations, just do not wash your hands off. These burning issues are jeopardizing our
BI- lateral ties and lowering the image of our Nation.

 

[Species]

Discuss Bangladesh defence, military, air force, navy, army, special forces, strategic affairs and relations with the other countries.
As these unfortunate people are from Bangladesh + Muslims in Rakhine, this is NOT an internal issue of Pakistan only, Bangladesh requires to seriously look into these sensitive issues, a part of our Diplomatic responsibility and obligations, just do not wash your hands off. These burning issues are jeopardizing our
BI- lateral ties and lowering the image of our Nation.

Tell me if this news falls under any of the categories mentioned n the bold part. We have no proof if they are really Bangladeshi citizens or not and our govt. (whichever party it has been) doesn't recognize them either, so that makes it Pakistan's internal issue. And moreover, because of these irrelevant threads, the more important topics get buried under. There is a separate forum for such topics, https://defence.pk/pdf/forums/social-current-events.83/ I think. @waz @The Eagle

 

[Banglar Bir]

Tell me if this news falls under any of the categories mentioned n the bold part. We have no proof if they are really Bangladeshi citizens or not and our govt. (whichever party it has been) doesn't recognize them either, so that makes it Pakistan's internal issue. And moreover, because of these irrelevant threads, the more important topics get buried under. There is a separate forum for such topics, https://defence.pk/pdf/forums/social-current-events.83/ I think. @waz @The Eagle

Relations with the other Countries.In this case the Moderators decide.

 

[UKBengali]

Bangladesh population growth rate would be lot higher if it kept all its people inside BD.

They "outsourced" millions of their people to the region illegally and use the BBS numbers to then prop up their demographic and health claims. Then have audacity to put down Pakistan and India.

There is a reason these BD idiots here feel great shame whenever they see just how many of their riffraff visit India each year to get basic (and i mean very very basic) medical treatment....especially seeing how we treat such people when they do illegal activites at the border (yet they still shamelessly come here like nothing matters) and have a much more controlled and monitored visa process now (so we can continue to control BD govt easily). All of it quite easily disprove their fake numbers industry, just like the Economist also did by ranking Dhaka where they did in the liveability ranking among bottom rung warzones (thats what happens when you dont exclusively rely on BD claims).

These numbskulls (except a very few) cannot get beyond the overall "3 million" genohoax complex in almost any subject it seems. I say let them believe their deluded self-congratulatory numbers, just like North Korea hopes its people does.....whole world on the other hand knows better (when it cares enough in first place) given the ratings on institutional capacity and corruption.

Friendly bit of advice to all non-BD people: don't trust any number they put out that cannot be verified by neutral party or at least correlated with an externally measured footprint. UN and its organs have no choice (BD is a member country), but you should be more intelligent and pragmatic regarding it.

Did you ever get treated badly by a BD person?
Your obsession with BD is unhealthy.