The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know

[Louiq XIV]

How did you found similarities between the Brexit vote and the referendum in Crimea, King Louis? Two referendums that have completely different goals...
How did you find similarities between a vote in one of the most democratic countries in the world- a country with a democratic traditions dating of centuries back in history and a vote in a occupied peninsula part of a country in a civil war started mostly with the help of one bigger country on her eastern borders- a vote that was everything else but democratic with a bunch of "polite green man" guarding the sections and forcing people to vote/not to vote? Where is the similarity in that in the first place?

Maybe because :

i/ the referendum was legal
ii/ the result was very very clear
iii/ observers where there

(a few minutes on Google will prove you that)

There is no good countries and bad countries for democracy its result has to be accepted in Crimea as it has to be accepted in the UK. No double standard otherwise credibility is lost.

 

[Darmashkian]

You have cut to the heart of the matter. While the proximal cause of Brexit was the issue of immigration, or the British financial contribution to the EU, or the democratic deficit of Brussels-imposed laws, the overarching theme has always been that the British outlook and the Continental outlook are fundamentally different.

Britain is a commercial nation (the very reason it became a sea-faring empire to begin with), and has been instrumental in implementing the free trade order we have today. Britain is governed by common law, and contrary to the ideology of the Continent, believes that whatever is not expressly forbidden is allowed. Britain has a much more laissez-faire attitude towards the size and role of government (i.e. small, hands-off), in contrast to the Continent's vision of a domineering government. The British have a long history of democracy based on individual rights, whereas the Continent's version is driven by collective rights. Etc cetera.

In short, the EU is made by the Continent for the Continent. The idea of a closed economy, hostile to competition, is well-suited to the Continental mindset, and alien to the British. The idea of a powerful superstate overseeing every aspect of trade, and increasingly, of life, is well-suited to the Continental mindset, and alien to the British. The idea of a distant, un-elected bureaucracy imposing rules on the citizenry is well-suited to the Continental mindset, and alien to the British.

And on and on. But try putting that on an election banner. It's much easier to distill down to "Immigration!" and "£13 billion contribution to the EU!" but the underlying differences remain. That's why Britain has always been an uneasy member of the EU, and why Britain in turn has never had any real influence in the EU. The stark truth is that the slogan of "Better Together" has always been a lie, and Britain and the EU can only realize true friendship by going their separate ways. Now the EU can become as totalitarian and protectionist as it wishes, and Britain can restore democracy and negotiate free trade deals with the world.

Is that not the definition of win-win?

Yes, it is. The British people & especially the English are not fond of the idea of a Big Brother or a super socialist state with multiple regulations & rules.

They did the right thing leaving before their mentality changed over. Many of the young ones in the UK seem to have changed to the "European" way of thinking at first sight

I believe now that UK did the right thing leaving, if its government can get it's act together & can get the Scots to remain, it can still remain economically strong.

But @LeveragedBuyout sir, frankly speaking mentalities can change over time.
Adam Smith- who was a firm free marketer & the father of modern free trade was from Scotland, the same Scotland which voted to remain in the EU today & which lies between left & centre left when it comes to ideology & nature today

India should send Kanhaiya Kumar to London immediately @JanjaWeed
http://www.ibtimes.co.in/120000-sign-petition-declare-london-independent-uk-join-eu-684342

For all those who hate the EU's bureaucracy:-@mike2020 is back @waz @Steve781
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/679277/History-EU-how-bureaucrats-seized-power

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

When the UK vote to exit the EU you call it democracy but you call it "expansion" when the people of Crimea vote to join Russia ? That is quite funny to me.

When another country invades, and arranges an election with a few days notice,
then it is not a democratic process.

 

[Louiq XIV]

When another country invades, and arranges an election with a few days notice,
then it is not a democratic process.

Bonds between Crimea and Russia are very old and strong as history should learn you.

That is not an "overnight" reaction.

But let's not pollute this brexit thread.

 

[Kabira]

It's baffling watching some British Asians support Breixit because they don't want eastern euros. We all know sole reason for this was to prevent eastern europeans migrating to UK "legally". Asians were in same situation some decades back. And in couple of decades eastern euros will be more more integrated in UK then asians ever will be.

It's like when one see sikhs supporting likes of BNP because they hate muslims.

 

[MarkusS]

Don't be so heart broken bruv. Thing is we will still cary on cooperating and trading with italy and Europe. So things aren't that bad. For example we brought in Germany and Italy into our Tyhoon fighter jet project making it a successfull pan-European project. This shows when european powers are really committed and have the will, they can achieve alot(Do you mean you will pull out from such projects since we are not part of E.U? )
Anyway, However, im afraid to say the E.U lacks this will and urge to reform/reinvent itself today. They are too complacent and that is a very dangerous thing when a union cant adapt to change. We tried several times to reform the E.U from inside but failed, as many countries seem to take a backseat on several issues, so we grew frustrated and now you see the results. I mentioned this in a thread here not long ago.

https://defence.pk/threads/britain-...ants-quota-system-in-u-k.419256/#post-8108281

This is just one of many examples though. But it helped tipped the balance in leave's favour.

Europe needs urgent reforms and make sure it listens carefully to its people concerns instead of brushing them aside for political correctness, complacency and political reasons etc

Sorry but i dont see it that way. Its a great damage for europe and not just EU. Economies are hit hard from it and many people will suffer. People who have nothing to do with it.
Italy now rise into the club of 3...Germany, France and Italy will now carry the burden. I hope my country is ready for that-

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@waz

The MOODY's has rated UK credit rating as NEGATIVE

Earlier it was stable

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36626201

 

[waz]

@waz

The MOODY's has rated UK credit rating as NEGATIVE

Earlier it was stable

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36626201

It will change for the better.

 

[MarkusS]

It will change for the better.

It wont. As most banks will leave. Airbus already said it will rethink its investments.

You know what our finance minister said today? That italy will bring back its gold reserves that are stored partly in London because security risks there.

The trust in the Uk simply is gone. Who tells us after this that the UK wont steal it?

He is right with that. The UK says they dont want be with us. We trust them some of our gold. On one side the Uk says we aren´t good enough to be partners and on other side take gold?

 

[waz]

It wont. As most banks will leave. Airbus already said it will rethink its investments.

You know what our finance minister said today? That italy will bring back its gold reserves that are stored partly in London because security risks there.

The trust in the Uk simply is gone. Who tells us after this that the UK wont steal it?

He is right with that. The UK says they dont want be with us. We trust them some of our gold. On one side the Uk says we aren´t good enough to be partners and on other side take gold?

Yes it will, banks won't leave as they full well know from the past the EU is no friend to them. If Airbus rethinks it's investments, others will take their place. We have one of the most skilled workforces in the world, world class infrastructure, favourable tax rates for businesses, all in all excellent external economies of scale.
Italy is more than welcome to take its gold. As for the UK stealing it, we won't and abide by our commitments, both in law and by word.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

It will change for the better.

I request you to read the entire news that I have posted

It shows that there is going to be a LOT of turmoil ahead

Immigration concerns can be handled differently

The economic Transition will be very difficult

And what about SCOTLAND

They want independence again

 

[waz]

I request you to read the entire news that I have posted

It shows that there is going to be a LOT of turmoil ahead

Immigration concerns can be handled differently

The economic Transition will be very difficult

And what about SCOTLAND

They want independence again

It's predictions, for a start people have already said the impact isn't as bad as they predicted.
The Scotland issue has been talked about in detail several times on this thread.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

It will change for the better.

I request you to read the entire news that I have posted

It shows that there is going to be a LOT of turmoil ahead

Immigration concerns can be handled differently

The economic Transition will be very difficult

And what about SCOTLAND

They want independence again

 

[MarkusS]

Yes it will, banks won't leave as they full well know from the past the EU is no friend to them. If Airbus rethinks it's investments, others will take their place. We have one of the most skilled workforces in the world, world class infrastructure, favourable tax rates for businesses, all in all excellent external economies of scale.
Italy is more than welcome to take its gold. As for the UK stealing it, we won't and abide by our commitments, both in law and by word.

You dont follow your commitments. You broke with Europe and weaken it.

Do you know who you strengthen? Russia laughs and says europe breaks apart. That way russia can dominate more.

Even ISIS made a statement that europe shows its weakness and they want intensify their attacks to paralyse us.

What UK did is plain and simple evil and betrayal for all europeans. You weaken the entire continent and make us victims of russia and islamic terrorism. sorry but that is not forgiveable.

 

[waz]

You dont follow your commitments. You broke with Europe and weaken it.

Do you know who you strengthen? Russia laughs and says europe breaks apart. That way russia can dominate more.

Even ISIS made a statement that europe shows its weakness and they want intensify their attacks to paralyse us.

What UK did is plain and simple evil and betrayal for all europeans. You weaken the entire continent and make us victims of russia and islamic terrorism. sorry but that is not forgiveable.

We do honour them, the EU didn't, so we broke away. It wasn't us who wanted this. We asked for reform, the EU refused. As for Russia, there is NATO.
ISIS is being slaughtered by our special forces, drones and RAF. These attacks are relentless and won't stop.
If democracy is evil and a betrayal, then the Europeans who believe they were betrayed by the UK should go on to be ruled by a dictatorship.