The Triangular Poles: CHINA - RUSSIA - USA :: Syria As The Showcase

[LeGenD]

Any link to prop your statement about "defeating some of the greatest adversaries of modern times" ?

1. British Empire?
2. Spanish Empire?
3. Germany?
4. Japan?
5. USSR?

Pakistan has benefited? Please list out the pros and cons for PAK in dealing with the USA... I mean things that already happened, not something futuristic

PROS
1. Economic support. For example; Pakistan's economy was on the brink of total collapse when PML(N)-led government took over so IMF came to the rescue
2. Sales of arms
3. Funding of programs that face neglect otherwise
4. Behind-the-scenes facilitation of nuclear program
5. Cooperation in matters pertaining to Afghanistan from time-to-time

CONS
1. Political fallout with an American administration and subsequent sanctions
2. Clandestine CIA-led operations inside Pakistani territory

Pak-US relationship has its share of ups and downs but it is a necessary evil. Unfortunately, a disconnect between American and Pakistani public exists and it fuels mistrust and misconceptions on both sides. Few people see the bigger picture.

About the regime change efforts by the USA against the govt in Damascus, there are tons of articles in the internet about this topic, just look around if your mind has not yet been shut!

Btw throughout the history of the modern time, the USA has never been one to shy away from implementing the regime changes around the globe.

A Timeline of CIA Atrocities

By Steve Kangas

The following timeline describes just a few of the hundreds of atrocities and crimes committed by the CIA. (1)

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.

This scenario has been repeated so many times that the CIA actually teaches it in a special school, the notorious "School of the Americas." (It opened in Panama but later moved to Fort Benning, Georgia.) Critics have nicknamed it the "School of the Dictators" and "School of the Assassins." Here, the CIA trains Latin American military officers how to conduct coups, including the use of interrogation, torture and murder.​

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html


Killing Hope: U.S. Military and C.I.A. Interventions Since World War II--Updated Through 2003
By William Blum (Author)

An encyclopedic work!

A devastating attack on America's actual foreign policies, as opposed to the propaganda fed to children in school and to adults from the government and mainstream media. We all want to believe that our country stands for freedom and human rights, but sadly the record doesn't support that idea.

As New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison said in 1967: "...our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society...We won't build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line...I've learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dream world America I once believed in...Huey Long once said, 'Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.' I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."

Blum points out how useless popular encyclopedias (Americana, Britannica, Colliers, etc) are when it comes to documenting the history of US interventions abroad. The mainstream media doesn't need marching orders from the government, "for the simple truth is that these individuals would not have reached the positions they occupy if they themselves had not all been guided through the same tunnel of camouflaged history and emerged with the same selective memory and conventional wisdom."​

https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Hope-C-I-Interventions-II-Updated/dp/1567512526

Clandestine effort towards that end won't work since Russia is doing its best to prevent collapse of Syrian regime since 2015.

A Libya-style intervention is needed to topple Syrian regime.

 

[Max]

China will continue to provide full political support to the government of Syria at the UNSC. And it will continue to indirectly help Syria by deepening economic and security cooperation with Russia.

Direct military action is out of question. An economically viable Russia is more than enough.

Thats what i meant.

 

[LeGenD]

Look at Iraq Afghanistan condition today and before us intervention.It was more peace in the world before us so called war on terror.Pakistan has always suffered due to alliance with us and we
lost many lives and our economy is also affected negatively by supporting us war against Afghanistan

Bro,

What happened in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria - is most unfortunate. However, on a closer look, these matters are not so black and white.

IRAQ

Keeping in mind the current situation in Iraq, some get the impression that Saddam Hussein was necessary for stability in that region and Operation Iraqi Freedom was a miscalculated move. However, to the US, it was in a constant state-of-war with Iraq since 1991 and feared that Saddam would do his best to acquire weapons of mass destruction (if left unchecked). So instead of subjecting Iraq to powerful sanctions, supervision and no-fly-zones for indefinite period (measures that aggravated the suffering of Iraqi people), closing the chapter of Saddam seemed like an enticing prospect. Unfortunately, nobody had an idea that Saddam was like a CAP over a bottle filled with worms that would spread across the Middle East once that CAP is opened. Now, US is trying to kill the worms as well.

Now, which countries facilitated the war between US and Iraq? GCC states (most notably Saudi Arabia and Kuwait).

AFGHANISTAN

Taliban seemingly brought stability to Afghanistan but it was an illusion. A powerful terrorist faction (i.e. Al-Qaeda network) established itself in Afghanistan during the tenure of Taliban-led government and was planning worldwide operations. An Afghan political activist and warlord Ahmad Shah Massoud attended a global summit in France in (March) 2001 and warned the world of the impending danger but nobody heed his warning. Al-Qaeda operatives assassinated him 2 days before 9/11. War on Terror commenced after that.

---

Please bear in mind that I am not condoning the actions of US in the aforementioned states. My argument is that it is important to look through the veil of established narratives and concentrate on the developments in any state that led to foreign intervention afterwards.

Pakistan can/should learn from these case studies and fix its internal problems before it is too late.

 

[gambit]

since Putin and Trump are two good friends, I guess Russia didnt want to make you look silly this time``?
where is your critical thinking skill `? :p

That is more stupidity. But if you want to go that 'friend' route, Obama is the real 'friend' of Putin since Obama told Putin's lackey that he will be more flexible in the second term in dealing with Russia.

Ultimately, you failed. It is not likely that Russian military 'experts' will find any evidences of dozens of cruise missiles 'misses'. Maybe your PLA 'experts' can help Ivan.

 

[rcrmj]

That is more stupidity. But if you want to go that 'friend' route, Obama is the real 'friend' of Putin since Obama told Putin's lackey that he will be more flexible in the second term in dealing with Russia.

Ultimately, you failed. It is not likely that Russian military 'experts' will find any evidences of dozens of cruise missiles 'misses'. Maybe your PLA 'experts' can help Ivan.

anyway 36 went missing, you lot cant be more serious to defend that incompetency of yours, but few kids here will use their narrative, imaginative and fabricative mind to excuse otherwise``

btw, have your CIA, FBI or whatever 'intelligent' intelligence ever found chemical weapons in Iraq yet?

 

[gambit]

anyway 36 went missing,...

Where are the evidences of those 'misses' ? We are nearly one week since the attack.

 

[rcrmj]

Where are the evidences of those 'misses' ? We are nearly one week since the attack.

where are the evidences of those weapon of mess destruction and chemical stuffs? we are more than a decade since the invasion``

 

[gambit]

where are the evidences of those weapon of mess destruction and chemical stuffs? we are more than a decade since the invasion``

This is about Syria. Do not like that the Russkies fooled you ?

 

[utraash]

This article in OP seems to be a brainchild of a juvenile. Off course Russia & China will want to join hands at any given time to thwart US geopolitical ambitions, their rivalries going to be worsened with the ongoing turmoil in ME. Russia & China are also not for so called cause of Peace, they are also acting out of their rivalry against US & their own geopolitical interests. They are coming together & forging alliances to make things more complicated for US, nothing else.

But my take on this alliance is that even with this alliance they don't carry a power to pose any threat to US interests in that region, US will remain undisputed/unchallenged until the fight is away from US shores. If US economy remains stable with 2-3 % growth for next one decade then Chinese & Russian ambitions will be ceased to float with conflict at their own backyard...

 

[TaiShang]

US Too Afraid to Bomb Syria After Russia Cuts Communication Channels

US bombing missions over Syria are way down since the missile attack on April 6。

Marko Marjanović

US just made much of its strike force useless

By striking the Syrian military on April 6 with cruise missiles the US demonstrated 'resolve'. So much 'resolve' that it is now afraid to fly over Syria lest the Russians shoot them down.

US officials told The New York Times:

The American-led task force that is battling the Islamic State has sharply reduced airstrikes against the militants in Syria as commanders assess whether Syrian government forces or their Russian allies plan to respond to the United States’ cruise missile strike on a Syrian airfield this past week, American officials said.

Quite apart from showing what a tough guy Trump is, the US strike has robbed its Syrian proxies of the support they enjoyed before, and at a time when the Battle for Raqqa intensifies.

The US is now limiting itself to just the most essential strikes and accompanying these with expensive F-22 fighter jets. (Belgium meanwhile suspended all strikes.)

US insecurity is not only due to their cruise missile strike, but more specifically due to the Russian reaction to it. Immediately after it the Russians suspended the "deconfliction" hotline with the Americans, who now have to guess at the Russians' intentions.

There has not been a comparable drop in Syrian and Russian air strikes. Indeed numerous strikes on rebel positions were reported over the weekend.

It is both in US and Russian interests that the deconfliction hotline is restored but Americans need it more urgently — giving the Russians some leverage.

Far from boosting US prestige, the April 6th strike and its aftermath will have reduced it in the eyes of attentive observers.

Many red bomb icons (Syria, Russia), few blue bomb icons (US)

 

[randomradio]

Try doing more than just 'going by the reports'.

You shouldn't, you will end up making the wrong assumptions.

You should instead wait for more reports.

This is more about China and Russia than it is about Syria. Sure, the chemical weapons were horrific, but we could have hit that Syrian airbase any time and at any level we want.

Regarding China. Right now, the PLA generals and admirals are rightly nervous. Once again, the Americans demonstrated their military can deliver real combat results while PLA forces so far performed only exercises and parade marches. North Korean missile launch facilities are clearly vulnerable, as well as those SCS islands. The fact that we informed the Russians and the Chinese of what we will do is an oblique snub, and it is even worse for the Chinese as their leader is hosted by ours.

This was not about China. You have merely demonstrated a capability that you have done since decades. This exercise wasn't a firepower demonstration.

Plus, Syria is completely surrounded by US allies from all sides. This demonstration wasn't a big deal.

The two Russian demonstrations were a big deal. They demonstrated they have cruise missiles equipped on their smallest ships which they fired from the Caspian Sea and in another they circled around Europe using bombers to bring down targets in Syria. And that they can bypass all of your allies to do what's needed to be done. The Caspian Sea demonstration was in fact targeted at all the Middle Eastern states, that they are all within Russian striking distance even under heavy NATO presence, and that they still retain military control over Central Asia, much more than the Chinese.

This would have been an actual military demonstration if you had used new assets like the F-35s or F-22s to launch airstrikes.

This has nothing to do with China and more to do with the geopolitical situation within Syria itself. That's why the Russians did not activate their air defences either, which tell the Syrians that they cannot do stuff behind Russian backs, that the Russians are the ones in control. Also, this has more to do with demonstrating that Trump can be more aggressive than his predecessors, which is a message to everybody, not just the Chinese or the Russians. For example, India has been holding back in further increasing relations with the US based on how Trump deals with China.

The N Koreans aren't stupid either. Even with all their rhetoric, they know that most of their facilities can be attacked by the US. Your exercises with the S Koreans are enough to send a stronger message. The deployment of THAAD has sent a bigger message to the Chinese than these strikes ever will.

 

[TaiShang]

China Says Trump Has Small Missile Strikes

China's state news agency described Trump's Syria strikes as "the act of a weakened politician who needed to flex his muscles"

RI Staff

Oh dear.

You can't blame Washington for trying.

Donald Trump wanted so badly to impress his Chinese guests at Mar-a-Lago that he served up a $100 million illegal cruise missile strike for dinner.

As a guest and an extremely well-mannered world leader, China's President Xi Jinping felt obliged to play along with Trump's Syria theatrics.

"Even beautiful babies were cruelly murdered in this very barbaric attack," bellowed Trump, adding: "No child of God should ever suffer such horror."

According to Tillerson, Xi allegedly told Trump that he understood the US strike given "the deaths of children" — which, in retrospect, was probably a Raytheon missile stuffed with dry humor that zoomed right over the heads of his American hosts.

Because once Xi got on his plane to head home, China's "reaction" to the attack changed just a little bit:

“Xinhua, the state news agency, on Saturday called the strike the act of a weakened politician who needed to flex his muscles,” The New York Times reported. “In an analysis, Xinhua also said Mr. Trump had ordered the strike to distance himself from Syria’s backers in Moscow, to overcome accusations that he was ‘pro-Russia.'”

Is China saying that Trump has small, weak missile strikes? Because that is rude and Trump will not tolerate that level of disrespect.

 

[Shaitan]

well i guess 36 missiles finds there way back to iraq they found another WMD site....

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

China Says Trump Has Small Missile Strikes

China's state news agency described Trump's Syria strikes as "the act of a weakened politician who needed to flex his muscles"

RI Staff

Oh dear.

You can't blame Washington for trying.

Donald Trump wanted so badly to impress his Chinese guests at Mar-a-Lago that he served up a $100 million illegal cruise missile strike for dinner.

As a guest and an extremely well-mannered world leader, China's President Xi Jinping felt obliged to play along with Trump's Syria theatrics.

"Even beautiful babies were cruelly murdered in this very barbaric attack," bellowed Trump, adding: "No child of God should ever suffer such horror."

According to Tillerson, Xi allegedly told Trump that he understood the US strike given "the deaths of children" — which, in retrospect, was probably a Raytheon missile stuffed with dry humor that zoomed right over the heads of his American hosts.

Because once Xi got on his plane to head home, China's "reaction" to the attack changed just a little bit:

“Xinhua, the state news agency, on Saturday called the strike the act of a weakened politician who needed to flex his muscles,” The New York Times reported. “In an analysis, Xinhua also said Mr. Trump had ordered the strike to distance himself from Syria’s backers in Moscow, to overcome accusations that he was ‘pro-Russia.'”

Is China saying that Trump has small, weak missile strikes? Because that is rude and Trump will not tolerate that level of disrespect.

Now that would be very unpresidented to call these small, weak missile strikes...

Let us call it Uuuuge missile strike on sanity! That would be more presidented...


Xi is the Stoic gentleman..... regardless of settings or locations...always this humility and studied restraint about him....Asia's preemminet Statesman, Xi is!

The Chinese President honours his nation by keeping his calm composture. This can only come from within, through a deep and rich value system!



China must avoid traps and the stage managed 'events' and keep the train of OBOR chugging along as planned. I do expect troublemaking ahead on the Road.... perhaps sooner than later.

 

[beijingwalker]

'Great chemistry': Trump abandons China criticism as Russia ties suffer
Ties between two largest economies appear to warm as Donald Trump speaks of ‘very good relationship’ with Xi Jinping
Thursday 13 April 2017

Less than two months after branding China the “grand champion” of currency manipulation, Donald Trump has performed a breathtaking pirouette away from those allegations, declaring: “They’re not currency manipulators”.

Trump’s verdict, delivered in an interview with the Wall Street Journal, was the latest hint that ties between the world’s two largest economies were warming after the billionaire’s shock election ushered in a period of intense uncertainty that stirred fears of a trade war or even military confrontation.

“We have a very good relationship, we have great chemistry together,” Trump said of Chinese president, Xi Jinping, adding: “I think his wife is terrific.”

Trump also backed away from earlier criticism of Beijing’s alleged inaction over North Korea, describing how after receiving a history lesson on the subject from Xi he had come away convinced that, “it’s not so easy”.

Trump’s sudden enthusiasm for a country he has previously lampooned as a US enemy came as he proclaimed that relations with Moscow might have hit “an all-time low”.

“We’re not getting along with Russia at all,” Trump said on Wednesday as last week’s airstrikes on Syria, Moscow’s key Middle Eastern ally, dominated a peppery encounter between Russian president Vladimir Putin and secretary of state Rex Tillerson.

Steven Weber, an international relations specialist from the University of California, Berkeley, said Trump’s volte-face towards China suggested pragmatism was kicking in.

Facing an intractable crisis in North Korea and having been elected vowing to create jobs and improve the economy, Trump appeared to have understood that he had little choice but to build bridges with Beijing.

“He’s obviously capable of understanding the numbers of a big real estate deal and so he is obviously capable of understanding projections about the number of jobs that would be lost in a significant trade spat,” Weber said.

“So I’m not surprised by it that much. It’s actually consistent with much of what he said; that he wanted to try to use America’s leverage in the relationship to get slightly better deals. He wasn’t trying to break the relationship. He wasn’t trying to undermine the Chinese economy – and he certainly isn’t trying to undermine the US economy.”

“Ultimately the economic relationship with China is multiple, multiple, multiple times more important than anything having to do with Russia,” Weber added.

China reacted with jubilance to Trump’s decision to withdraw his currency manipulation charges, which experts across the world have long dismissed as outdated.

“He will be the best US president for China compared with any previous US president,” celebrated Shen Dingli, an international relations expert from Shanghai’s Fudan University. “He is the most friendly US president ever.”

Last year, at the height of tensions between China and the incoming US president, Shen called on Beijing to close its US embassy if Trump continued to engage with Taiwanese president Tsai Ing-wen after taking up office.

Following Trump’s latest conciliatory comments Shen was singing a different tune, claiming the American billionaire would receive “the warmest treatment” when he made an anticipated state visit to Beijing later this year.

“He cares about business. China cares about business. He is a capitalist. China is a capitalist. Capitalists working with capitalists. It is the art of the deal; a trade of interests. I give you interests. You give me interests. It’s business,” Shen said, predicting that Beijing would respond to Trump’s overtures by offering greater collaboration on North Korea.

Li Yonghui, a China-US relations expert from Beijing’s Foreign Language University, said Trump’s change in tone and abandonment of “extreme remarks” about China suggested he was adapting to his new role and new environment.

The supposed chemistry between Xi and Trump was “quite normal”, Li added, pointing to their “similar personalities and governing styles”.

Not everyone was so taken with what one China expert dubbed the “insta-bromance” between Trump and Xi.

CNN anchor Anderson Cooper struggled to digest Trump’s admission that he had completely changed his views on North Korea following a brief lecture from Xi.

“President Trump said ... that after listening to the Chinese president explain the history of China and North Korea for about 10 minutes he, ‘realised it’s not so easy’?” Cooper stammered. “I mean ... is that... I really am speechless.”

Trump swatted away criticism of his reversal using his favourite form of communication. “One by one we are keeping our promises,” he wrote on Twitter.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ump-xi-jinping-china-not-currency-manipulator