The real solution to the Afghanistan problem

[SIPRA]

They're definitely doing something. How do you think the Afghan illicit trade happens . All under the watch of Military command who are receiving their designated pies along with crumbs to the bureaucracy.

Yes. That is precisely the case. Many people from tribal areas have informed me.

 

[Sayfullah]

8The problem in Afghanistan is their refusal to accept the international border and decades long support for terrorism in Pakistan. The assumed solution was to put a friendly government in Pakistan, but that has proven more difficult than expected, or even close to impossible. The reason being hate for Pakistan in Afghanistan is ingrained as deep as hate for India in Pakistan. And their desire to conquer KP/Balochistan is just as strong as ours to take Kashmir. This is something which will not be disappearing anytime soon.

This brings me to my point that Afghanistan is too unreliable in the long-term, you can never have a pro-Pakistan government for too long. What if they are friendly until they build an economy and military then do the same thing as 1947? Invasion and more concrete support for terrorism? We cannot risk a 2-front-war.

Dividing Afghanistan by giving Khorosan freedom is the solution, and most importantly it is a long term solution. The newer and smaller Afghanistan state won't have much potential to rival us, regardless of how much they develop due to it's smaller size, population and land mass. This makes it more easily managable even if it is staunchly against Pakistan.

Also they may begin to focus their chauvinistic expansism on the new border with Khorosan, so it will decrease focus on us by splitting it between both Khorosan and Pakistan's borders, and we can have joint operations to control terror elements. Khorosan may even be used as a medium to control the new country which gives it international support and purpose.

This would also help the Tajiks and Hazara populations as they have historically faced in that country, and still do to this day, their nationalism is rising and if we ignite Khorosani nationalism and provide support, we can give them freedom and secure our safety for the long term.

It would also be good payback against Afghans who dream of dividing our country.

@Areesh @Mrc @Maula Jatt @villageidiot @Menace2Society

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Pakistan is probably too broke to do this though, and likely won't have the support of other powers who may staunchly work against it! Although it should work to secure the safety of Pakistan on a long-term basis.

Having a Pashtun only Afghanistan might even be more troublesome for us than current Afghanistan. If we can’t control AFG rn with all its fault lines and all the leverage we have, a Pashtun only AFG will lead to a massive Pashtunistan movement. You could say they would be very weak but isn’t present day Afghanistan weak as well?
If we play our cards right we won’t have to Balkanize Afghanistan and create more issues while controlling Afghanistan. A country with many fault lines and loosely united is easier to control.

These hostilities exist because the Afghans have territorial disputes with Pakistan. There is no other reason. Afghans will never behave normally. Whether it is the Taliban or any other kind of Afghan. All Afghans are in sync when it comes to territorial dispute with Pakistan. This is the main reason why Afghans and Indians are bhai bhai.

Pakistan can invest trillions of dollars in Afghanistan. It won't make an iota of difference. There is only one way to settle this conflict. Either give the Afghans what they want or fortify the border. Half hearted attempts like a scholarship or citizenship won't resolve any issues. You ought to know by now that Afghans born in Pakistan aren't loyal to Pakistan.

Afghan Pashtuns have a territorial problem with us. Other ethnicity afghans don’t care.
They hate Pakistan because of Taliban.
It was afghan india bhai bhai because we choose to be on Taliban side so their nato backed puppet gov choose to go in bed with india. Massoud use to be our dog. Even amrullah saleh asked us to support him and they would be much more loyal to us if we supported them but we choose to stick with TB. But we still keep ties with all ethnicities in AFG and the day we extend support to the other ethnicities, they’ll be more than our proxy.

 

[Cookie Monster]

8The problem in Afghanistan is their refusal to accept the international border and decades long support for terrorism in Pakistan. The assumed solution was to put a friendly government in Pakistan, but that has proven more difficult than expected, or even close to impossible. The reason being hate for Pakistan in Afghanistan is ingrained as deep as hate for India in Pakistan. And their desire to conquer KP/Balochistan is just as strong as ours to take Kashmir. This is something which will not be disappearing anytime soon.

This brings me to my point that Afghanistan is too unreliable in the long-term, you can never have a pro-Pakistan government for too long. What if they are friendly until they build an economy and military then do the same thing as 1947? Invasion and more concrete support for terrorism? We cannot risk a 2-front-war.

Dividing Afghanistan by giving Khorosan freedom is the solution, and most importantly it is a long term solution. The newer and smaller Afghanistan state won't have much potential to rival us, regardless of how much they develop due to it's smaller size, population and land mass. This makes it more easily managable even if it is staunchly against Pakistan.

Also they may begin to focus their chauvinistic expansism on the new border with Khorosan, so it will decrease focus on us by splitting it between both Khorosan and Pakistan's borders, and we can have joint operations to control terror elements. Khorosan may even be used as a medium to control the new country which gives it international support and purpose.

This would also help the Tajiks and Hazara populations as they have historically faced in that country, and still do to this day, their nationalism is rising and if we ignite Khorosani nationalism and provide support, we can give them freedom and secure our safety for the long term.

It would also be good payback against Afghans who dream of dividing our country.

@Areesh @Mrc @Maula Jatt @villageidiot @Menace2Society

View attachment 906676

Pakistan is probably too broke to do this though, and likely won't have the support of other powers who may staunchly work against it! Although it should work to secure the safety of Pakistan on a long-term basis.

Hard to unite the Afghan ppl under any identity...
...even to this day there are problems with them accepting Afghani identity. They place ethnic/tribal identities over their national identity..even if not overtly...at least through their actions and loyalties. Not that anything is wrong with that...but a modern day nation state cannot exist(nor function properly) if the subjects themselves are divided on their loyalties...
...this is why Afghanistan is a mess...and due to this it will remain so for the foreseeable future.

An easier solution would be for multiple countries to get together and agree on the following.
These countries would have to be the neighbors of Afghanistan that share a land border...and some major powers(US/China/Russia/UK/France/Germany/Japan along with perhaps GCC?).
They all come to an agreement to divy up land amongst the neighbors. Do a population exchange...Uzbeks can be moved to parts that are merged with Uzbekistan...Pashtuns in parts merged with Pakistan...etc.
Surrounding neighbors gain land...and population (a short term strain that can be useful in the long term for growth with proper leadership).
Major Powers don't object...but rather help implement the plan.
...they get out of it some contracts thrown their way...to their companies to mine stuff and profit is shared so that the population can be uplifted and those areas developed.

Afghanistan would cease to exist as a nation state...but it also means no mess for the rest of the world...no terrorism eventually(once the ppl are given a chance at stability and prosperity)..no land disputes(since an agreement on land distribution would be drafted and agreed to by the neighbors prior to annexing and therefore no more stupid claims afterwards)...and so on.

 

[Menace2Society]

Need to accept the reality, Afghanistan is a failed state and the Afghan Pashtuns are not mentally fit to rule so both need to remodeled for there to be peace at the border. Ironically that's what NATO tried to do.

The easiest solution is to build a solid border with concrete walls and drones and completely culturally cut off from Afghanistan. Make them invisible to Pakistani children, like they don't exist then Afg can do whatever it wants to itself. There needs to be a disconnect from FATA/KPK and Afghanistan.

The army needs to comb through FATA for Afghans as there are many there frauding as Pakistanis.

 

[TheSolution]

Having a Pashtun only Afghanistan might even be more troublesome for us than current Afghanistan. If we can’t control AFG rn with all its fault lines and all the leverage we have, a Pashtun only AFG will lead to a massive Pashtunistan movement. You could say they would be very weak but isn’t present day Afghanistan weak as well?
If we play our cards right we won’t have to Balkanize Afghanistan and create more issues while controlling Afghanistan. A country with many fault lines and loosely united is easier to control.

You didn't understand me bro, the smaller Afghanistan would be too weak to challenge us even if they are hostile.

About your Pashtunistan worries - Afghanistan is already dominated by Pashtuns, it's seen as a Pashtun country and the other ethnicities are sidelined and ignored. Only thing that changes is the borders become smaller but everything else remains the same. No one thinks of Hazaras and Tajiks even today, they are irrelevant in the bigger picture.

You could establish the entire country as Khorosan by starting a Tajik/Hazara uprising against Afghans. Completely eliminating them from the picture.

Or split the country as the image shown blow. (Khorosan and new Afghanistan)

This newer smaller Afghanistan will be easy to handle than the current larger one, it's population will be very small, land mass will be small, land-locked state that's dependent on us even more. Terrorism much better managed with joint operations with Khorosan.

And the main point here: it doesn't matter what year it is, even if it keeps developing with a completely hostile government, it will be too weak to challenge Pakistan at any point in time - due to economy restrictions and army size restrictions. We essentially cripple their potential to challenge us in the region.

And with the establishment of Khorosan, Pakistan and Khorosan can work together on neutralising terror elements inside it.

Either this OR turn the whole of current Afghanistan into Khorosan, give the Tajiks power as they are easier to negotiate with and won't care about the Durrand line. But one reason I'm against this is that it could become a problem if Afghans recapture the country once again, or Khorosan becomes greedy and also lay claim to our territory.

Need to accept the reality, Afghanistan is a failed state and the Afghan Pashtuns are not mentally fit to rule so both need to remodeled for there to be peace at the border. Ironically that's what NATO tried to do.

The easiest solution is to build a solid border with concrete walls and drones and completely culturally cut off from Afghanistan. Make them invisible to Pakistani children, like they don't exist then Afg can do whatever it wants to itself. There needs to be a disconnect from FATA/KPK and Afghanistan.

The army needs to comb through FATA for Afghans as there are many there frauding as Pakistanis.

This should be done alongside my suggestion, because my suggestion cripples their overall potential in the region and they won't have the power to challenge us - we could easily overpower them. No matter how developed they become or the year it is.

Currently Afghanistan has 20 million population roughly, by freeing Khorosan it will be even smaller, land mass smaller, land locked and dependent on us. It doesn't matter if they are hostile to us today (2022) or in 2100, the country won't ever have the potential to challenge us.

 

[AlKardai]

I feel like the creation of the Khorosan would definitely help Pakistan’s case, as well as it probably ending up being the army of the Mahdi in the future (black flags of Khorosan)

The split balkanisation of Afghanistan alongside its own ethnic fault lines is definitely possible, and has been a recurring theme for mostly the entire history of Afghanistan. It’s as simple as this- if the Pashtuns aren’t friendly, make the Tajiks or the Hazaras the masters of the land instead. Seeing that these groups have been oppressed, it’s less likely that they would oppress others (Pakistan) and more likely that they’d be able to create a solid system of justice, and perhaps even a new state

 

[TheSolution]

I feel like the creation of the Khorosan would definitely help Pakistan’s case, as well as it probably ending up being the army of the Mahdi in the future (black flags of Khorosan)

The split balkanisation of Afghanistan alongside its own ethnic fault lines is definitely possible, and has been a recurring theme for mostly the entire history of Afghanistan. It’s as simple as this- if the Pashtuns aren’t friendly, make the Tajiks or the Hazaras the masters of the land instead. Seeing that these groups have been oppressed, it’s less likely that they would oppress others (Pakistan) and more likely that they’d be able to create a solid system of justice, and perhaps even a new state

Khorosan would be no threat to us - the smaller Afghan state would sit in the middle, so formally they can't do anything and have no reason to.

And Khorosan supporting terrorists against us is a bad idea, we know how to hit back as seen by history, they try against us, we will retaliate in a worse manner. It's in their interest to be neutral at the very least. We could simply just use the same old Afghan trick. They would understand this.

Also Khorosan would work on federalism to give all ethnicities their rights, Hazaras - Tajiks - Uzbeks.

They would be useful in the region to tackle terrorism from smaller Afghanistan too, we could work with them.

Also if you want to limit Irànian interference in new Khorosan, make it a sunni state.

Smaller Afghanistan could have an openly hostile government and it wouldn't matter to us because formally they'd never be able to compare to us, not even in the future after developing. Tiny population and small country.

This will secure Pakistan's territory and severely weaken threats emanating from Afghanistan. Remember they wanted to destroy us, it would also be perfect retaliation.

 

[Foinikas]

The problem for Pakistan could perhaps be solved if you deported all TTP members to Afghanistan after a massive sweep operation and then seal the borders. Of course that wouldn't last for long,as I'm sure they have many sympathizers in Pakistan. But what could you do? In any case,sealing the borders and stopping any dealings with Afghanistan,could send a message to those mullahs in Kabul. And if they don't get the message...Pakistan has a strong Air Force. You can pound them to pieces.

 

[TNT]

This thread shows how uninformed and devoid of ground realities most of the keyboard warriors are. Terrorism is something we exported to Afghanistan. Anyone seen pics of 60s and 70s Afghanistan? They were liberal and we made 70,000 medrassas around the border areas, trained and brainwashed mujahideen and religious extremists and now keyboard warriors here crying about terrorism. You cannot fix a problem untill u really understand it. People of Afghanistan see taliban as Pakistani proxies and those proxies play gimmicks to show they hate Pakistan. Just like PPP here doing drama baazi to show they r anti india or something oir army does to show as if they hate india.
That map is also stupid because the guy doesnt even knkw what he is talking about, he doesn't even know demographics of Afghanistan and drawing maps while jumping in his chair. The south, west and east of Afghanistan is all pashtuns, how will u divide them? The other ethnicities are mostly in north west and central Afghanistan.

 

[TheSolution]

This thread shows how uninformed and devoid of ground realities most of the keyboard warriors are. Terrorism is something we exported to Afghanistan. Anyone seen pics of 60s and 70s Afghanistan? They were liberal and we made 70,000 medrassas around the border areas, trained and brainwashed mujahideen and religious extremists and now keyboard warriors here crying about terrorism. You cannot fix a problem untill u really understand it. People of Afghanistan see taliban as Pakistani proxies and those proxies play gimmicks to show they hate Pakistan. Just like PPP here doing drama baazi to show they r anti india or something oir army does to show as if they hate india.
That map is also stupid because the guy doesnt even knkw what he is talking about, he doesn't even know demographics of Afghanistan and drawing maps while jumping in his chair. The south, west and east of Afghanistan is all pashtuns, how will u divide them? The other ethnicities are mostly in north west and central Afghanistan.

Only they are to blame for all this, I had sympathy for them but no more.

They started the policy of exporting terrorism, did they expect roses in return. We simply returned the favour.

You cannot fix a problem untill u really understand it.

It's understood - Afghans themselves are the problem. Not any group, no one else, they are collectively a problem.

Pakistan sought positive relations with them, they sought destruction. An explicit enemy. There's no other way to put it.

No Afghans - no problem.

New small area and tiny population Afghanistan surrounded by Pakistan and Khorosan = threat level of a chihuahua.

Establishment must work towards this goal as IEA was never going to work, you can only negotiate with your enemy for so long.

 

[Zornix]

Anyone seen pics of 60s and 70s Afghanistan? They were liberal

Afghanistan was never liberal besides some rich enclaves in Kabul, those photos you see of "liberal" Afghans are representative of 2% of their society at most.

and we made 70,000 medrassas around the border areas, trained and brainwashed mujahideen and religious extremists and now keyboard warriors here crying about terrorism.

It is Pakistan and America's fault that those idiots can't stop killing each other and act civilised. Look at how you treat your fellow Hazaras and Tajiks, the Afghans were already radicalized to begin with and foreigners took advantage of it.

 

[TheSolution]

Afghanistan was never liberal besides some rich enclaves in Kabul, those photos you see of "liberal" Afghans are representative of 2% of their society at most.

And they are typically Tajiks and Hazaras - they are more liberal in nature.

 

[Zornix]

And they are typically Tajiks and Hazaras - they are more liberal in nature.

Who are hated by most Afghans.

 

[TheSolution]

Who are hated by most Afghans.

Thank you for speaking facts.

Afghan Pashtuns literally worked to genocide and persecute them. Raping their women, settling in their lands, and telling them that "Tajik is kuffar" with the purpose of Afghanising the country.

Their own words "Uzbeks to Uzbekistan, Tajiks to Tajikistan, and Hazaras to the graveyard"

 

[Zornix]

Thank you for speaking facts.

Afghan Pashtuns literally worked to genocide and persecute them. Raping their women, settling in their lands, and telling them that "Tajik is kuffar" with the purpose of Afghanising the country.

Their own words "Uzbeks to Uzbekistan, Tajiks to Tajikistan, and Hazaras to the graveyard"

The likes of @TNT would have you believe that the Afghans are actually very peaceful and progressive people and that it's just "Punjabi" and "American "propaganda. What a filthy and backwards society, Afghans are very good at acting "progressive" and "liberal" abroad but all have this mindset deep inside.