The Question of Indian MIRV

[sparten]

And 692km apogee correlates to very long ranges (5,000km to 6,000km) So no way shaheen-3 has that

Lol there Is no Missile in the world that can Launch MIRV at this range Due to Atmospheric Pressure

1) Absolutely wrong. Apogee and range don't work out that way. While generally speaking higher apogees equals longer range, its certainly possible to have a high apogee with shorter range. This is commonly employed with short-range missiles in order to greatly increase terminal velocity (and make interception more difficult).

2) The discernable atmosphere ends at about 100 KM (Karman Line). Getting any missile beyond 300-500 KM (max) without leaving the atmosphere is impossible. Thermal effects would burn up any RV at the speeds needed tp get to such ranges.

 

[Safriz]

Ahem. The width of Agni-1 is not uniform, if you look at it, it tapers quite a bit near its warhead. The width which most of the public sources report is its maximum width, i.e. the width of the rocket motor itself.

Now, Agni-1 happens to be one meter in diameter but then the warhead width is not necessarily going to be 1 meter. It tapers about 30% or so. So you are looking at around 70-80 cm diameter and that means, even if this warhead is used without modifications, Around 2-3 can be fit in Agni-5. Which is going to be India's first MIRV platform. Agni-6 will perhaps be a bit wider and will use different warhead.

Does not look like 30% reduction, but even if that's accepted then height is too much. More than 3 meters. To accommodate this on top of Agni-5 the fairing will have to be 5 meters tall. the whole aerodynamics and weight distribution will change.
Also the weight factor. This warhead is a ton in weight. Putting three on top of A-5 means it will have to carry 3 tons in warhead weight and then another ton in RV and other mechanisms associated. Dont think A-5 can do that.

In Pakistan's case the very original Ghauri missile warhead was less than 700 Kg and about a meter and a half tall. Actually the news conference said "Payload" 700kg, the Warhead could be even lighter.

It is impossible to hide ballistic missile tests as they get tracked anyhow by sats & radars and you have to issue NOTAMs.

States are not obliged to issue NOTAMs. Same as India never issues or rarely issues K-4 test NOTAMS. Pakistan may have done the same.

Also India has already crammed a lot on top of A-5, the third stage is on top where Warhead must have been sitting and the 1.3 meter wide , 3 meter tall warhead sits on top.

TO mirv it if even we consider any existing Indian warhead can fit on here in MIRV mode , the third stage will have to be removed.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Does not look like 30% reduction, but even if that's accepted then height is too much. More than 3 meters. To accommodate this on top of Agni-5 the fairing will have to be 5 meters tall. the whole aerodynamics and weight distribution will change.
Also the weight factor. This warhead is a ton in weight. Putting three on top of A-5 means it will have to carry 3 tons in warhead weight and then another ton in RV and other mechanisms associated. Dont think A-5 can do that.

The actual bomb / warhead is not going to be that high. What you are seeing is re-entery vehicle + bomb. Agni 1 has the oldest reentry vehicle.

Also as far as weight goes, Agni-5 has a range of 5500 KM or 8500KM if you believe Chinese. With 800 KG per bomb for a single 150 -200 KT fusion boosted fission bomb, this will amount to a 2400 KG Warhead weight. About 1.7 times the original warhead weight for Agni-5. Meaning Agni-5 range will be around 2000-2500. Still very useful and will economically cover quite a bit of Chinese territory. The means from 'mainland India' Chengdu, Chongquing, even Hong Kong will be in range. If stationed in Arunachal Pradesh, it will allow us to target Beijing as well.

Does not look like 30% reduction, but even if that's accepted then height is too much. More than 3 meters. To accommodate this on top of Agni-5 the fairing will have to be 5 meters tall. the whole aerodynamics and weight distribution will change.
Also the weight factor. This warhead is a ton in weight. Putting three on top of A-5 means it will have to carry 3 tons in warhead weight and then another ton in RV and other mechanisms associated. Dont think A-5 can do that.

In Pakistan's case the very original Ghauri missile warhead was less than 700 Kg and about a meter and a half tall. Actually the news conference said "Payload" 700kg, the Warhead could be even lighter.

States are not obliged to issue NOTAMs. Same as India never issues or rarely issues K-4 test NOTAMS. Pakistan may have done the same.

Also India has already crammed a lot on top of A-5, the third stage is on top where Warhead must have been sitting and the 1.3 meter wide , 3 meter tall warhead sits on top.

TO mirv it if even we consider any existing Indian warhead can fit on here in MIRV mode , the third stage will have to be removed.

No one said that missile will look exactly same, third stage will require a bit of redesign with less tapering and rounder cover instead of conical one. Also, possibly it will carry aerospace.

Pakistan also did the same with Ababeel. Redesigned the last stage with wider diameter.

 

[Safriz]

The actual bomb / warhead is not going to be that high. What you are seeing is re-entery vehicle + bomb. Agni 1 has the oldest reentry vehicle.

Also as far as weight goes, Agni-5 has a range of 5500 KM or 8500KM if you believe Chinese. With 800 KG per bomb for a single 150 -200 KT fusion boosted fission bomb, this will amount to a 2400 KG Warhead weight. About 1.7 times the original warhead weight for Agni-5. Meaning Agni-5 range will be around 2000-2500. Still very useful and will economically cover quite a bit of Chinese territory. The means from 'mainland India' Chengdu, Chongquing, even Hong Kong will be in range. If stationed in Arunachal Pradesh, it will allow us to target Beijing as well.


No one said that missile will look exactly same, third stage will require a bit of redesign with less tapering and rounder cover instead of conical one. Also, possibly it will carry aerospace.

Pakistan also did the same with Ababeel. Redesigned the last stage with wider diameter.

Are you saying that Agni warhead is something like this Chinese warhead arrangement/

Also even if all the abouve assumptions are agreed, where is the proof?
Pakistan has actually shown and flown a Third tage and a warhead fairing wide and tall enough to carry 3 Shaheen 3 size warheads. India has not flown any such thing on A-5.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Also even if all the abouve assumptions are agreed, where is the proof?
Pakistan has actually shown and flown a Third tage and a warhead fairing wide and tall enough to carry 3 Shaheen 3 size warheads. India has not flown any such thing on A-5.

India is targeting 2018 AFAIK for a MIRV test. NSG is also a criteria. India is playing little bit slow to avoid seen as a nuclear aggressor in NSG.

 

[Smoking Snakes]

Does not look like 30% reduction, but even if that's accepted then height is too much. More than 3 meters. To accommodate this on top of Agni-5 the fairing will have to be 5 meters tall. the whole aerodynamics and weight distribution will change.
Also the weight factor. This warhead is a ton in weight. Putting three on top of A-5 means it will have to carry 3 tons in warhead weight and then another ton in RV and other mechanisms associated. Dont think A-5 can do that.

In Pakistan's case the very original Ghauri missile warhead was less than 700 Kg and about a meter and a half tall. Actually the news conference said "Payload" 700kg, the Warhead could be even lighter.

States are not obliged to issue NOTAMs. Same as India never issues or rarely issues K-4 test NOTAMS. Pakistan may have done the same.

Also India has already crammed a lot on top of A-5, the third stage is on top where Warhead must have been sitting and the 1.3 meter wide , 3 meter tall warhead sits on top.

TO mirv it if even we consider any existing Indian warhead can fit on here in MIRV mode , the third stage will have to be removed.

India warheads ranging from 20-200 KT. Largest Indian warhead weighs 830 kg and has an yield of 200 kt range.

India always issued NOTAMs for K4 tests.Issuing NOTAMs is obligatory.

Are you saying that Agni warhead is something like this Chinese warhead arrangement/

Also even if all the abouve assumptions are agreed, where is the proof?
Pakistan has actually shown and flown a Third tage and a warhead fairing wide and tall enough to carry 3 Shaheen 3 size warheads. India has not flown any such thing on A-5.

Pakistan required such a fairing because of the totally obsolete design of shaheen-3.

 

[Safriz]

No one said that missile will look exactly same, third stage will require a bit of redesign with less tapering and rounder cover instead of conical one. Also, possibly it will carry aerospace.

Pakistan also did the same with Ababeel. Redesigned the last stage with wider diameter.

Don't think it will be "A bit of" redesign.
Pakistan had to mount a whole 3-4 meter tall third stage to compensate for the extra weight of MIRV and additional drag.

even then you can see speed loss and ofcourse the loss of range.

https://twitter.com/x/status/824151621663858688

India warheads ranging from 20-200 KT. Largest Indian warhead weighs 830 kg and has an yield of 200 kt range.

India always issued NOTAMs for K4 tests.Issuing NOTAMs is obligatory.


Pakistan required such a fairing because of the totally obsolete design of shaheen-3.

tou phirr aa gaya...maskharay

 

[Shajida Khan]

Don't think it will be "A bit of" redesign.
Pakistan had to mount a whole 3-4 meter tall third stage to compensate for the extra weight of MIRV and additional drag.

even then you can see speed loss and ofcourse the loss of range.

Agni-5 is already a three stage missile. And India has been working on MIRV for quite sometime now. There is even a DRDO research on reducing drag using a special Chromium coating which works similar to an aero-spike.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...t-missile-range-by-40/articleshow/3464620.cms

 

[war&peace]

This test is very important with respect to the SLV...satellite launch vehicle program... Ghauri has not been tested since a long time and when some of my sources informed me about this test a few weeks before Eid, I was ecstatic since it means Pakistan is reviving its liquid fuel based missile program that is required for an SLV development.
Extremely good news

 

[Safriz]

Agni-5 is already a three stage missile. And India has been working on MIRV for quite sometime now. There is even a DRDO research on reducing drag using a special Chromium coating which works similar to an aero-spike.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...t-missile-range-by-40/articleshow/3464620.cms

The third stage is there with one 1.3 meter wide and 3 meter tall warhead.
To MIRV it, the third stage will have to go.. I have already commented about it.

This test is very important with respect to the SLV...satellite launch vehicle program... Ghauri has not been tested since a long time and when some of my sources informed me about this test a few weeks before Eid, I was ecstatic since it means Pakistan is reviving its liquid fuel based missile program that is required for an SLV development.
Extremely good news

Ghauri has 3 variants Paii jii.

 

[Shajida Khan]

The third stage is there with one 1.3 meter wide and 3 meter tall warhead.
To MIRV it, the third stage will have to go.. I have already commented about it.

A redesigned third stage will be needed. One with blunt nose to accommodate three warheads. Thats a given. India has been working on this since 2013. Five years should be enough to complete this work in 2018.

India's first MIRV will be Agni-5 with 3 warheads and possibly 2000-2500 km range. Incase India was indeed down-playing missile range in 2012, it could be 5500 range with MIRV 3 warheads.

 

[war&peace]

Ghauri has 3 variants Paii jii.

So
I already know that so no addition to my knowledge
Paa ji what made you think I didn't know ?

 

[Safriz]

it could be 5500 range with MIRV 3 warheads.

More baseless assumptions?

Agni-5 is a heavy and slow missile, thats why 50 ton missile goes 5500 km.
Russian topol at 47 ton goes 11000 km.

 

[Shajida Khan]

More baseless assumptions?

Agni-5 is a heavy and slow missile, thats why 50 ton missile goes 5500 km.
Russian topol at 47 ton goes 11000 km.

Chinese experts commented on Agni-5 that its real range is 8500 KM. If that was the case indeed, then I will not be surprised by a 5500 KM range even with 3 MIRV. That means India initially down-stated range for political purposes.

BTW, slow/fast is a weird term for a ballistic missile. It can only define the boost phase. And no, neither Pakistan nor China has boost phase interception capability or infrastructure to support that. US once toyed with it and thats all. In terminal phase, the velocity of missile is not defined by propellent but how high the missile actually went. From there on, its a free falling object and RV needs to be guided and course correct. Velocity will be in 20 Mach +.

 

[Smoking Snakes]

tou phirr aa gaya...maskharay

Looks like cat got Your tongue.